Spoiler and Final Impressions Thread

[Loony BoB]

I may bring myself a massive amount of criticism here, but I don't think Final Fantasy has ever been groundbreaking for storyline. I think this one was par for the series. Final Fantasy plots tend to be pretty basic stuff overall. Rag tag team of adventurers team up to save the world from some evil bugger. For me, what makes Final Fantasy stories great is all the dialogue/scenes you get along the way, and the feels. I got 'em both in spades in this game so I'm good. I feel people have very rose-tinted glasses when they look back at the much older games in the series, story-wise. I can name at least half a dozen games in the series that I felt had worse plots than this one, including VIII which is one of my all-time fave games.

Also, urgh, I'm glad the conflict didn't go on longer. I played the game at a slower pace than most people (70 hours played) and the tension in that particular chapter was insane. I also felt it did last a bit longer - some of the snarky comments were still around afterwards, not sure if that was intentional by SE.

EDIT: Also, watching Ignis stumble over a couple of times and get picked up by Prompto while we were just moving around was heartbreaking. He also walked in the wrong direction for a few moments sometimes and Prompto would run back to him to correct his walking direction. Feels.

[Sephiroth]

EDIT: Also, watching Ignis stumble over a couple of times and get picked up by Prompto while we were just moving around was heartbreaking.

Always have to think of this when talking about it. Just saw it again in my second run.

[Fox]

I may bring myself a massive amount of criticism here, but I don't think Final Fantasy has ever been groundbreaking for storyline. I think this one was par for the series. Final Fantasy plots tend to be pretty basic stuff overall. Rag tag team of adventurers team up to save the world from some evil bugger. For me, what makes Final Fantasy stories great is all the dialogue/scenes you get along the way, and the feels. I got 'em both in spades in this game so I'm good. I feel people have very rose-tinted glasses when they look back at the much older games in the series, story-wise. I can name at least half a dozen games in the series that I felt had worse plots than this one, including VIII which is one of my all-time fave games.

I don't disagree that overall FF plots are nothing groundbreaking, but I do object to my criticisms being boiled down to rose tinted glasses. Go look at my example in the OP about why I felt like Garnet cutting her hair had emotional weight where Luna's death didn't; we spend time with Garnet. She goes through a hell of a lot of character development from her initial kidnapping/escape, redefining her identity, trying to save her mother, enduring her mother's death, assuming the responsibilities of the queen, seeing her country be destroyed. Luna, we got a few 30 second cutscenes of her sat in her castle talking about how she wants to be by Noctis's side and how she'll do everything in her power to ensure he succeeds.

Now, I don't think that's a 'rose-tinted' examination. I think that's a perfectly fair criticism. At the end of the day FFIX made me feel something 16 years ago, before nostalgia set in, just as it does now. XV failed to elicit any emotions from me as I played it the first time. Even XIII got a few tears from me at the end because despite it's massive flaws it at least made me care about Fang and Vanille a little by the end. VIII did have a pretty poor plot in many respects, yes, but it was more competently told in my view (Except for the Trabia Garden twist which was definitely utter twaddle ). The big threat in XV of the light fading from the world, for example, that was super interesting in this game! But it's barely mentioned. I remember being on a train and Ignis tells me about the nights getting longer. "That's really interesting!" I thought. But then it barely gets mentioned again until the time skip. It wasn't this constant, driving threat as I feel it should have been. In FFVII you had the entire latter half of the game where nobody would shut the hell up about Meteor, so it was very foreboding. There was an opportunity for something similar here that never materialised.

As for the main 4 dudes who this game wanted to focus on, I liked 'em. They were good. My favourite scenes in the game are the ones surrounding Ignis's blindess and that one you can get with Prompto on the roof of the motel. There just wasn't enough of it. Nobody except Noctis really grew or developed through the game, save for one or two small moments. Prompto reveals he's actually an MT in one scene and the guys say: "but we still love you, bro!" and that's an end of it; it's never brought up again. That could have been a sequence as powerful as Cloud discovering his memories were all taken from Zack, Zidane discovering he was created as an agent of Garland on Terra, Tidus learning he is a dream of the Fayth. But no, instead it's "hey guys I can open this door because I am one of these monsters. You must hate me right?" "Nah dude it's cool let's go".

[Loony BoB]

Oh, I should probably clarify that I was talking about FF fans in general, not you and your IX commentary. I agree that this story isn't the best in the series, but I kinda never expect any game to be the best. I do feel it was better than half the stories in the series though... but it's a subjective kinda thing so I guess there's that. I'd agree that IX is a better story, too, despite me enjoying this game more than I did IX.

I agree that VIII was told better. I don't think it had the better story though. Trabia stuff and time compression stuff just left me shaking my head and looking away from the screen for a while because it was just bad. Loved the game though. Adore it.

[Sephiroth]

Just during my 2nd run with like 14 hours and in chapter 13. I do not mind the short story as much now but of course it still is a thing and I still would want more.

Now if I would get a novella like with FFVII and XIII.

[Fox]

I will say I don't think there was much fundamentally wrong with anything in XV, even what I consider the 'bad' plot was mainly bad because they didn't elaborate enough. If someone told me to make changes to XV to put it on par with X at the very least, I wouldn't have to throw much away that's already there, I'd just take the good moments it had and add a hell of a lot more of them

In a perfect world the biggest change I would make would be to make Luna a party member. Have the first big thing you do in the game be to rescue her from the clutches of the empire post-treaty disaster and then she joins up. Having her around in the car and at camp with the bros, being a part of events as they unfolded, then they'd have their Aerith moment when she dies. It would also alleviate my issues with how they represent women in this game in general which is pretty poor in my view.

One thing I thought of earlier when I was considering Aranea (a highlight of the game - again she needed more of an arc though. She felt like Beatrix-lite), which is: why did the empire help Noctis and co get the Mythril for their boat? Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I'm pretty sure their entire mission was "get some mythril so we can fix the boat". They show up at the mythril cave and the IMPERIAL CHANCELLOR is waiting for them with Aranea the dragoon mercenary. He then helps Noctis and friends get the mythril and then leaves without accomplishing anything else or demanding anything of them, and even gives them a lift out of the area.

Now, considering the empire has just taken over my city and murdered my king and is also trying to kill/capture Noctis... the fact that the chancellor is going out of his way to help me get bits for my boat is unbelievably suspect. The guys should be about 7 MILLION times more suspicious than they are. They say "Oh I don't trust this guy" but they still follow him around everywhere and accept lifts on imperial ships with him and let him send mercs into dungeons with them.

[Sephiroth]

One thing I thought of earlier when I was considering Aranea (a highlight of the game - again she needed more of an arc though. She felt like Beatrix-lite), which is: why did the empire help Noctis and co get the Mythril for their boat?

For the same reason the Empire asked the Returners for help to open the Sealed Gate: So the main villain who planned it could get what he wants earlier, though in case of Kefka it seems more like it was a bit spontaneous because while he dreamed of te Statues before he did never actually seem to really betray the Emperor, just was a guy who did what he wanted. If he gets sure Noctis reaches his goal he can settle things with him.

Also I love how Aranea sometimes randomly appears for a battle.

[Sephiroth]

Okay, after having finished it for a second time I love it even more now.

[Fox]

Okay, after having finished it for a second time I love it even more now.

What made it better the second time?

[Sephiroth]

Okay, after having finished it for a second time I love it even more now.

What made it better the second time?

Is often like that for me. I just can get through it again and I do not have any expectations about a 50 hours game anymore. I know the good parts and can focus on what I get even more instead of "oh, hopefully this happens until the end". There could have been a lot of it but I love it nonetheless.

[Fynn]

(Just sayin', experiencing a story a second time when you know exactly what to expect can provide you with more insight into the material and thus more satisfaction)

[Marshall Banana]

The high-level story of XV isn't bad at all. It's a simple, classic story: four lads go on a quest to find the weapons of destiny and reclaim their fallen kingdom from the evil empire. I can totally get behind that.

But it might be the least coherent game in the franchise with its bizarre logic and out-of-context scenarios. Like when Gladiolus leaves (for some reason? I never heard the reason), then out of the blue after getting Mythril (while fighting with Mythril weapons, I might add, because you can buy some at this point), you go to the power plant in Lestallum to clear out monsters (how did monsters get in there, what do you mean "there's only one" uniform when a lady next to you is also wearing one and apparently everyone in this gosh-darn town is wearing the same uniform, can we PLEASE get a little more context?). Then there's that weird part in which Ardyn, the bad guy -- the bad guy -- makes you follow him in his car without tailgating. So you follow him for a block and then everyone's like, "Welp, let's turn in for the night," as if the thirty-second drive was that exhausting. That is actually a part. What. the. poop.

EDIT: Also, watching Ignis stumble over a couple of times and get picked up by Prompto while we were just moving around was heartbreaking. He also walked in the wrong direction for a few moments sometimes and Prompto would run back to him to correct his walking direction. Feels.

I couldn't get over the fact that it made no darn sense, so it had no effect on me at all. It wasn't shown, there were no details about how it happened other than when it happened (unless I missed them, which isn't unlikely), and it has no real consequences in the game. One of your party members goes blind, and just stays in the party, continuing to fight, hardy anything changes. What. What. What. Whaaaaaat. Like, let's retire Ignis somewhere safe and put someone else in the party (Aranea?), or let's go on a quest to heal his blindness...something that makes sense.

Like I think I said before, the realism of this game really amplifies the ridiculous parts for me. This is why I poop on them hard.

[Fox]

One of your party members goes blind, and just stays in the party, continuing to fight, hardy anything changes. What. What. What. Whaaaaaat. Like, let's retire Ignis somewhere safe and put someone else in the party (Aranea?), or let's go on a quest to heal his blindness...something that makes sense.
.

What I will say in defense of this section is that, for a while at least, he fights extremely terribly. He basically just swings his daggers around in the vague hope of hitting something and falls over a lot. He's only really useful as a meat shield at this point. He does seem to get the hang of it though, I guess because it would be too annoying to have him useless for the rest of the game.Also you do actually see him with one eye open later on, so I don't think he's completely blind. Just blind-ish, which improves a bit as time goes on.

It's definitely ambiguous though.

[Sephiroth]

One of your party members goes blind, and just stays in the party, continuing to fight, hardy anything changes. What. What. What. Whaaaaaat. Like, let's retire Ignis somewhere safe and put someone else in the party (Aranea?), or let's go on a quest to heal his blindness...something that makes sense.
.

What I will say in defense of this section is that, for a while at least, he fights extremely terribly. He basically just swings his daggers around in the vague hope of hitting something and falls over a lot. He's only really useful as a meat shield at this point. He does seem to get the hang of it though, I guess because it would be too annoying to have him useless for the rest of the game.Also you do actually see him with one eye open later on, so I don't think he's completely blind. Just blind-ish, which improves a bit as time goes on.

It's definitely ambiguous though.

Being blind does not mean you cannot open your eyes. Also his eyes can have healed a bit with him being blind nonetheless.

[Marshall Banana]

I have no idea what that means. XD

Additionally, I thought his blindness never healed. Noctis asks Ignis about his condition at the end of the game when they're reunited, and Ignis says it never improved. One characters comments on it, saying something like "Ignis is more used to the dark than we are."