Well, for XIII the majority of vocal people were against the game, although I personally liked it.
With XV, my impression is that the majority of vocal people favour the game.
Well, for XIII the majority of vocal people were against the game, although I personally liked it.
With XV, my impression is that the majority of vocal people favour the game.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
I agree with Fox entirely. Actually I tell a lie, I don't agree with him bringing up XIII as better
I was more understanding when I assumed the minimalist story was a creative decision and was a knee jerk reaction to criticism XIII got. I'm doubtful that they planned new story content in a week. This was content cut to save time and cut corners. I'm pragmatic enough to understand that they presumably had to rush it out to meet financial pressures and it's good that at least they're releasing a free patch when many devs wouldn't.
However, they would have a lot more integrity if they'd said from the outset that a more expansive story patch was due to come out in a few months before releasing the thing. Yes, that's commercial suicide so you have to make a choice as to what you want more of: Customers or fans? They chose customers and that's fine, good for them, they've just made a fat stack of cash. But when you compromise on both being honest with your fans and your artistic vision for financial gain then you lose some of the goodwill and respect you had stored up.
As Fox says, this was not sold as an Early Access game. This was sold as the final product, and I, as a consumer, paid full price for that game. Indeed, I broke my no pre-ordering rule due to my loyalty to the series! Again to borrow from Fox, I can't experience the first time I played this game but if I had known that the story was missing content I might've preferred to wait and experience my first time with the complete package. Square didn't make me aware that was an option because they wanted my money now rather than later. Fair enough. I've learned my lesson.
Oh, I agree they didn't finish it to the degree that they would have wanted to, and that this content was probably planned in some way. Apparently the voice acting hasn't been done yet for it so I don't think it was as concrete as people might think, though.
I just disagree that the game wasn't finished "by a long way" because if the game was released and never got a patch, well, let's just point to the reviews from users and critics alike fawning over the game after it was released. If they had never put out these patches they have announced, then they would have settled down with a game that was being praised by the majority and in a strong way. Technically they could have done nothing and not released a patch, so if people are going to say "Oh, I should have waited" after enjoying the initial released game then I think that's just encouraging them to not put out patches in future and just let the initial game remain as-is for all time, like they did with XIII.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
Bear in mind I'm only referring to story content. The actual game systems, whilst certainly in need in some polish, are not in a terrible state. The story telling, on the other hand and in my opinion, absolutely is. I mean I'm just coming up to Burmecia in my FFIX play through and I already feel like I've had an equivalent amount of story development that vanilla XV had in its entirety.
I actually think that's a really interesting thing about both FFXIII and FFXV. I feel like the new games, with voice acting, have so much more dialogue than the older games. Yet I feel I got more story in VI-XII (XI excepted) despite this. It makes me wonder if character development is considered more important than story than it was in earlier games. Or maybe not character development so much as... character... detail? You know, getting to know more about a character's personality. It doesn't need to develop from one state to another for me to enjoy a character so much as it needs to let me actually get to know them on a notable level, something that I feel XIII in particular did excellently. I guess in modern games it's more about the journey and getting to know the characters than about the world plot.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like I got to know individual characters in-depth in the previous games, but not a full cast. I got to know all six of the XIII characters far better than I did Aeris, Cait Sith, Red XIII, Barret, but I feel I got to know Tifa and Cloud on a more personal level probably on par with the XIII team.
Hard to say for XV as I'm still playing through it and getting character tours or whatever they are called on a regular basis despite having all characters at level 99, and I know there is at least one tour I've not yet done, I suspect a few.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
I believe that impression comes from the separation of 'game' and 'story' from X onwards that didn't really exist in the earlier games. Back on the PS1 and before when it was all text boxes, you had a bunch of story development in bitesized moments that you wouldn't really call a "cutscene". Think about running up the Sector 7 pillar, you stop and have a very brief chat with Biggs and Jessie on the staircase. Moments like that which are indistinguishable from a big plot cutscene because they're all presented in the same manner.
You do still get this sort of thing in XV in the form of barks. Maybe you're going into a cave and Prompto calls out "Hellooo, anybody home?" But it's not a cutscene in the same style as a full cutscene, so it feels more separate from the story. Also, voices are expensive, so you naturally get less of these moments than you would if just relying on text. For this reason I like the hybrid approach where sometimes characters do still talk in text only, even though your game is voice acted. It just allows you to give every NPC something to say and pack in a lot more words. So in X all the important scenes are voiced but when I'm just wandering around Besaid I can talk to every character be they party member or NPC and they'll have something to say. In Lestallum on the other hand there are only a handful of NPCs with lines.
I actually feel like there is more dialogue (written or voiced) in the later games than the earlier ones. Sure, there are moments like Kalm in FFVII in which there is an absolute plethora of dialogue, but for the most part the dialogue in previous games felt like a considerable amount more story-focused than flavour. Modern games have a crapload more flavour, at least, I feel they do.
Bow before the mighty Javoo!
There might be more dialogue, but most of the dialogue isn't serving a purpose to move the plot forward, and what dialogue does move the plot forward, is weak at best. This game ultimately suffers from the "Show, don't Tell" syndrome that a lot of writers fall pray to.
While character development is important, and we have some great moments where it happens as part of the plot, the plot is the driving focus of the game leading you to the objective. If you're going to craft this world with rich lore, but never explain it, and never provide context on how and why the plot is important to the narrative of the world, then everything else falls flat from a "why am I doing this?" perspective.
Don't get me wrong, the little moments when you're sleeping at a motel, the banter between the characters - that's great, and really helps you develop a sense of connection to the characters - but it does nothing to serve the objective of the plot, which is what is driving you to finish the game, ultimately.
I finally beat the game (when I first posted in this thread I was at Hammerheads right before the final battle), and I have to say that I am very happy with FFXV and its ending. I really loved seeing Luna and Noctis reunited in death. That made it OK for me that she was killed off. And when they showed that Luna is the picture in the logo... beautiful. I still wish the story wasn't so thin. Namely, I wish we were given what we were shown in trailers in terms of story :/ but it is what it is. In the end though I feel it's fine, and doesn't even come close to ruining the game.
Lamia's Tiara- Headgear in FFIX
Lamia's Flute- Weapon for Eiko in FFIX
Lamia in FFV- a enemy
appearance: a lady with long brown hair, wearing a tiara...half woman and half snake.
Lamia in FF3j- A Harp
Lamia in FFL2- An enemy
FF2j Queen Lamia, at one point she even gets Frionel in a bedroom with her and jumps on the bed and says "take me!".. before she turns into her snakey self. She serves as a mini boss in this game (as Queen Lamia).. and after you fight her as a mini boss, regular lamia's become random foes and later on in the game, Queen Lamia's become random foes as well.
LamiaScl. an item that paralyzes foes.
According to legend, she was once a Libyan queen (or princess) who fell in love with Zeus. Zeus' jealous wife Hera deformed her into a monster and murdered their offspring. She also made Lamia unable to close her eyes, so that she couldn't find any rest from the obsessing image of her dead children. When Zeus saw what had be done to Lamia, he felt pity for her and gave his former lover a gift: she could remove her eyes, and then put them on again. This way, though sleepless, she could rest from her misfortune. Lamia envied other the other mothers and took her vengeance by stealing their children and devouring them.
I just finished it and yeah, if there's one single aspect of the game I'm disappointed with, it's the story, and the fact that LITERALLY NOTHING FROM THAT AWESOME ANNOUNCEMENT TRAILER IS IN THE GAME. If ever a case were to be made with false advertising for video games, this is it.
It's tragic really. Watching the trailer again, you can tell a sweeping epic of a story with a huge cast of characters and in-depth villains was planned, but tons of money and man hours spent on developing all that, and animating those breath-takingly gorgeous FMVs was thrown away, because not one shred of it is in FFXV.
It's a fun game. The gameplay is wonderful, the world is beautiful, and there's lots to do. Your main cast of four heroes are extremely likable, believable, and you come to truly care for them, but it feels like that all came at the cost of what would have otherwise been an epic memorable story akin to what most Final Fantasy games are known for.
The one exception to all this is the span of time from when you get on the boat to Altissia until you get to Tenebrae. That was the only span in the game, for me at least, that I felt like I was playing a game that belonged under the Final Fantasy banner. Had the whole game been full of moments like those, you'd have an instant classic to rival the best games of the genre.
Again, I can't stress enough that I thoroughly enjoyed the game, and still am enjoying it (there are tons of quests I've yet to complete and I'm having a blast going through them, especially now that I have the flying car to speed things along). I'm just very let down by a plot that showed so much promise pre-release that seemingly got thrown away and none of us will ever get to experience now.
I'm actually working on a piece about this for the frontsite, going through all of the Versus XIII and XV trailers and point out what did/didn't make it into the final game in some form.Originally Posted by DMKA
That ending was dreadful. Luna and Noctis reuniting in the afterlife would have been beautiful had Tabata and co. not bastardized her character.
The entire game never gives any clear indication that the two have any romance or deeper relationship beyond just being childhood friends. Their marriage is presented as purely political and never evolves beyond that during the story.
Her becoming the logo was so painfully forced, considering it wasn't even her who was originally on the logo. That was Etro. It's almost as though they ran out of time to properly fit her on there and had to shoehorn her in. (they did)
And Noctis' design on the logo looks pretty awkward with him just floating in mid-air.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
I have a plot question! So, I've looked around the internet to find answers to various questions I had and just better understand the story that was told. But there are a couple of things I can't wrap my head around.
1) Are the royal arms actually important to the story in any way?
I mean you have to go and collect them but there doesn't seem to be a reason for that other than "these are super strong".
2) Are the Astrals actually important to the story in any way?
So, you do the trials to get the power of the Astrals. But... this doesn't seem to actually do anything other give you the ability to use summons in battle occasionally? Noctis's important power is not related to the Astral's power at all, and it's awakened by Luna in order to defeat Leviathan. So beyond Bahamut being the person who reveals some plot details to you at the end, I don't see how they are actually important to the story in any way. If you took the Astrals away the plot could remain basically the same, couldn't it?
To break it down in a very primitive way it is basically just the "you have to prove yourself as worthy successor" thing.
The game does indicate it. It just lacks proper execution which is exactly the problem. It does indicate it nonetheless. I totally agree though that I want Luna to grow more on me which is why I would love to have DLC about her. It can easily destroy my greatest complaint.
And Etro or not. Rewrite is rewrite. I also don't care about how Cloud has no black hair or how Sephiroth and Aerith were no lovers in the final version (I mean, it could have been interesting but it is no game breaker for me).
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