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Thread: Spoiler and Final Impressions Thread

  1. #1

    Default Spoiler and Final Impressions Thread

    !!!WARNING. THIS THREAD WILL BE FULL OF SPOILERS FOR THE ENTIRE GAME. IT IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMPLETED THE GAME OR WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT SPOILERS!!!

    This is a general thread for any and all spoiler discussions and any opinions on the game you want to share if you have finished it. Or if you haven't finished it yet but aren't bothered about spoilers. I'll try and keep anything super specific spoiler tagged just to be safe but do be aware there will be open and frank spoiler discussion.

    To kicks us off, there's one particular aspect of the game I want to talk about. But first of all I have to talk about Final Fantasy IX.

    Princess Garnet begins the game conflicted, desperate to escape the castle. She feels she has a duty to prevent a war, but she wants to save her mother, whom she loves dearly, from the specter of greed and corruption that she has been consumed by recently. After escaping the castle she becomes determined to fit in as a common girl in order to achieve her goals, so she names herself 'Dagger' after one of Zidane's blades and begins leading a double life of sorts; both princess and pauper. She fails many times on this journey. Her mother arrests her and essentially tortures her to extract her Eidolons. She discovers she's actually an orphan from a destroyed village. Her mother dies. She ascends to the throne and now has to try and be a worthy queen. She watches her city be destroyed by Bahamut. She is torn by grief and loses her voice.

    After all this, there is a scene with her at her mother's grave. She asks Zidane to borrow the dagger she used to make her last life-altering decision.



    She cuts her hair.

    I always shed a tear at this scene because of what it represents; it represents letting go of the pain of her past. It represents no longer being held down by the expectations of her position. It represents being born again as a new person, and living a new life on her own terms. And it has impact because she has been with us from the very beginning. She has grown with us as a character, which makes these moments in her arc so powerful. And this was just one moment in a long and strongly developed arc, and there were many, many others like this for the other characters in the game. Zidane, Vivi, Kuja, Beatrix to name a few.

    Final Fantasy XV has none of that.

    It is so focused on letting you do cool things with your team of bros, that it forgets to tell the rest of its story. It forgets that other characters exist. What are their motivations? What are their feelings? We don't see them grow during the course of the game at all. This is true of our main cast but goes doubly for the supporting case. Hey guys, remember when (SPOILER)Luna died? Did you care? I sure as hell didn't. Because through the entire course of the game, she didn't actually have a single conversation with Noctis that wasn't part of a flashback. I was more upset when the Regalia got totaled; at least she'd had the FFVIII soundtrack on the radio for the first few chapters.

    I liked the main 4 dudes; they were good characters. The trouble is the game doesn't do anything with them. There's hardly any growth, hardly any development. There are a couple of nice touches in the final third, but it was way too little, way too late.

    The actual plot itself was vague and poorly explained. I understood who the villain was and why he was being a bad guy at the end. Just barely. But to say his motivations were 'flimsy' is, I feel, being rather generous.

    I have to be perfectly honest here; I have never been so devastatingly, profoundly disappointed with a game.

  2. #2
    Strawberry Virus Recognized Member Marshall Banana's Avatar
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    ichigo

    I liked Luna, actually. She was one of the few characters with a little development, although that's probably thanks to the movie. (SPOILER)I think they were trying to recreate the big Aerith moment in FFVII with Luna's death, but you're right, it's not very impactful.

    It's hilarious how the movie did so much to set up the evil empire as the big baddie but then forgets about it in the actual game. (SPOILER) You find out from a NPC at the very end of the game that the emperor died at some point and the empire dissolved. Womp-womp.

    I was thoroughly confused about Ravus' loyalty, by the way. He seemed like a different person in every scene with him.

    Okay, okay, and also, this is what bugs me about the ending:
    (SPOILER)
    • Those symbols around campgrounds -- they ward off daemons, right? Why aren't they everywhere?
    • If the crystal sent Noctis through time to bring back light, then why did it send him 10 years into the future instead of sometime in the past?
    • Why did Ardyn wait so long to wipe out the royal bloodline if he's so old?



  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Banana View Post

    It's hilarious how the movie did so much to set up the evil empire as the big baddie but then forgets about it in the actual game. (SPOILER) You find out from a NPC at the very end of the game that the emperor died at some point and the empire dissolved. Womp-womp.
    HAHA WHAT.

    I missed that! Not sure if I didn't talk to the right NPC or if I just wasn't paying attention. That's astonishing. I'm imagining FFVII where they forget about Shinra, or FFX without Yevon. But yes, I agree. Didn't we only get one cutscene with the emperor in in the entire game?

  4. #4

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    The emperor didn't "just" die. He was transformed by Ardyn into that monster that hunted you while you had to save Prompto. Didn't you see the imperial garb lying on the throne? By that point it was very clear something happened to him. And the boss fight then should have ultimately said it, especially as he still talks while you kill him that he wants to rule over the world - the common bad guy stuff. But even that aside the empire thing feels very underwhelming indeed. I could not help but feel like this was a water down version of the Gestahlian Empire with its Magitek, the Emperor and the not so secretly mastermindish right hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Banana View Post
    • If the crystal sent Noctis through time to bring back light, then why did it send him 10 years into the future instead of sometime in the past?
    I did understand that like the Master Sword in OOT was explained which basically (at least for the future not for the past) said that Link just slept for 10 years in the Sacred Realm. So if that is the same case here, Noctis did not really travel through time by the power of the crystal just happened to be gone for so long. But to answer your question, at least they were able to avoid a causality paradox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Banana View Post
    • Why did Ardyn wait so long to wipe out the royal bloodline if he's so old?

    He couldn't get past the Insomnian wall.

    I am not disappointed by the game, especially as there are so many great aspects and the final scenes makes up for everything for me but I would be lying to say I don't think it was somewhat underwhelming. But well, my two reviews basically said that anyway.

    For me except the finale the really sad thing was when you had to go through that swamp with the blinded Ignis. I felt legit pity for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I liked the main 4 dudes; they were good characters. The trouble is the game doesn't do anything with them. There's hardly any growth, hardly any development. There are a couple of nice touches in the final third, but it was way too little, way too late.
    There are at least some hidden caping scenes with them. Like when you stay at night at a certain motel Prompto approaches Noctis sitting on the roof and they talk about the past. Should not have been hidden though. Obviously they expected you to sleep everywhere.
    Last edited by Sephiroth; 12-02-2016 at 03:02 PM.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
    There are at least some hidden caping scenes with them. Like when you stay at night at a certain motel Prompto approaches Noctis sitting on the roof and they talk about the past. Should not have been hidden though. Obviously they expected you to sleep everywhere.
    I got the Prompto one but I didn't find anything for Ignis or Gladiolus. I thought I stayed everywhere at least once but I guess I must have missed a couple or missed something I needed to do beforehand.

  6. #6

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    Some are also some "quests". Like if you camp in Vesperpool Forest you get a scene with Ignis who says he wants you to help cooking but you end up getting a nice character interaction scene where he distracts a Black Chocobo so you can get back his glasses that were stolen by the Chocobo. I mean I am sure you know of some of those quests but some appear to be a bit more story-like than the others - while all of them of course are supposed to be "the story of the friends".

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    Jinx's Avatar
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    Link actually slept for 7 years, not 10.


    Aaaaand, that's my contribution to this thread. xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  8. #8
    Strawberry Virus Recognized Member Marshall Banana's Avatar
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    ichigo

    Re: Sephiroth, I didn't get any of that about the emperor during my playthrough. None of my friends did either. Weird.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Banana View Post
    Re: Sephiroth, I didn't get any of that about the emperor during my playthrough. None of my friends did either. Weird.
    O.O

    It is even obigatory to enter the throne room - there you can see the garb - and fight that teleporting demon the emperor has become (in another room shortly before the chapters ends). I mean, I give you that you did not notice the garb but that you have missed how the demon was once the emperor should be a bit harder to not get.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Banana View Post
    Re: Sephiroth, I didn't get any of that about the emperor during my playthrough. None of my friends did either. Weird.
    O.O

    It is even obigatory to enter the throne room - there you can see the garb - and fight that teleporting demon the emperor has become (in another room shortly before the chapters ends). I mean, I give you that you did not notice the garb but that you have missed how the demon was once the emperor should be a bit harder to not get.
    I was kinda busy either running away from it or fighting it to pay too much attention to what the voiceovers were saying, so that's why I didn't notice that.

    Personally I did notice the garb so figured the Emperor must either be dead or... I dunno, in the hot tub somewhere. But I think the original point being made on that front is that the empire collapses in on itself long before that point; whilst you're still on the train on your way there. But the game doesn't mention it to you until either a) you talk to some random NPC who says "btw dudes the empire is no more" or b) you actually get to the capital and see that it's turned into Raccoon City.

    Either way I feel like that's an event they might have wanted to draw attention to as and when it happened.

  11. #11
    Tyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
    obligatory to enter the throne room - there you can see the garb - and fight that teleporting demon the emperor has become (in another room shortly before the chapters ends). I mean, I give you that you did not notice the garb but that you have missed how the demon was once the emperor should be a bit harder to not get.
    Don't you see the emperors body strung up with Luna, Nyx and Regis at the end of chapter 14? I did not think he was that daemon at all.

    Honestly up until you went to Altissia in the game I was pretty positive, could easily have seen myself given this a 9/10 at least. Then Luna died and the entire story went to crap. Everything after that was terrible, not to mention chapter 13 was probably one of the most frustrating parts of a game in recent memory (slow movement speed and all those key cards).

    How they made a game with so much dialogue and cutscenes but failed to flesh out any of the characters is beyond me, when Luna died I didn't even react as she'd never interacted with the group at all. She had almost no character development. Then you're led to believe that her and Noctis were in love or something? Even tho they hadn't seen each other since they were tiny. I'm honestly getting serious MGSV vibes from this game. It seems like they got up to making Altissia and some big-wig from SE knocked on the door and said the game has to release in 6 months. So they just cobbled together a half assed second half of the game.

    Also the World of Ruin should of been expanded on immensely, being stuck in Hammerhead was a joke. No older Cidney? Iris? Cid in a wheelchair? Being able to explore and see how the world had changed would of saved the ending....a little bit at least.

    I'd give it a 7/10, which is disappointing for a game I waited so long for. It's better then XIII, but that's as much praise as I can give it.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
    when Luna died I didn't even react as she'd never interacted with the group at all. She had almost no character development. Then you're led to believe that her and Noctis were in love or something? Even tho they hadn't seen each other since they were tiny.
    Agree entirely. And I also really really really disliked Luna as a character. As far as I could tell she had a number of very compelling motivations such as:

    - Helping Noctis
    - Getting the ring to Noctis
    - Being with Noctis
    - Getting married to Noctis
    - Hoping Noctis is happy
    - Seeing Noctis one more time

    Such an incredible depth of character right there.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyson View Post

    Don't you see the emperors body strung up with Luna, Nyx and Regis at the end of chapter 14? I did not think he was that daemon at all.
    Except when killing Faras or whatever the demon was called you can see a text "Iedolas: blablaba rule the world ..." and they talk about him. So either the hung up body is sort of a spiritual presentation or it is "just" the essence of people that becomes the monsters - which is hardly the cases as we have seen with Ravus.

    Also, the garb. So the hung up body was just a symbol anyway. I mean, of course it was a symbol. But even more then. It is not like you can hang up corpses in fresh air for 10 years anyway. For Final Fantasy I would forget that but seeing as Iedolas was killed by our Backstreet Boys before in his demonic form I do not need to "forget" that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Either way I feel like that's an event they might have wanted to draw attention to as and when it happened.
    I noticed it. I think that was one of the things that was done okay at least. But of course there could have been more about that. However they wanted to shock with the whole monster transforming thing in the chapter so it could have ruined something.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQ1JUQUaXs
    Last edited by Sephiroth; 12-03-2016 at 01:35 AM.

  14. #14
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    I know I should know better after all these years watching every game from VIII onwards get the same treatment, but I am baffled by the criticism this game is getting in this thread. xD

    The emperor thing was really blatant to me. Just before (or was it in the first five seconds of?) the fight with the Emperor you get the "Is that the Emperor!?" routine from your characters while the enemy you kill fades away very slowly and does his big speel about ruling the world. Honestly I'm kind of glad they didn't make a big show of the Emperor because we don't really see him at all throughout the entire game. He was a pawn of Ardyn from the start, as were many. I guess they could have given it a short cutscene but I don't really feel there was a need at all.

    Luna's death, the blinding of Ignis and the rift that came between Gladiolus and Noctis was incredibly well done to me.

    I was a bit gutted to not see the old gang (main party excepted) at Hammerhead, and the inability to go and see the others elsewhere, that much I definitely agree on.

    I think this game was excellently done. I spent hours doing sidequests and was clearing out level 50 dungeons before I got to chapter nine. And then I felt like pushing the story a bit and finally got around to hitting chapter ten yesterday, then pulled an all-nighter (8am finish of the game).

    I guess there will be some who will focus on the bad but I am still quite captured by the good in the game. It isn't my ideal Final Fantasy game this year (World of Final Fantasy, hi) but as a game in general, it was absolutely incredible. An epic story, a massive world, a buttload of things to do (I haven't even done half the minigames despite spending so long doing everything else), the battle system was great, the ascension system was great, the ending was great, the feels were great.

    Really happy.
    Bow before the mighty Javoo!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loony BoB View Post

    I think this game was excellently done. I spent hours doing sidequests and was clearing out level 50 dungeons before I got to chapter nine. And then I felt like pushing the story a bit and finally got around to hitting chapter ten yesterday, then pulled an all-nighter (8am finish of the game).

    I guess there will be some who will focus on the bad but I am still quite captured by the good in the game. It isn't my ideal Final Fantasy game this year (World of Final Fantasy, hi) but as a game in general, it was absolutely incredible. An epic story, a massive world, a buttload of things to do (I haven't even done half the minigames despite spending so long doing everything else), the battle system was great, the ascension system was great, the ending was great, the feels were great.

    Really happy.
    Only because, for me at least, the story was awful and that's what I play these games for. I have no problem recognizing that this is a very good game that does a lot of stuff very well - if this were a Final Fantasy spin off I'd have nothing but praise for it. I'd say it's probably up there with Crisis Core in terms of the best Final Fantasy spin-off games I've played. But as a main title I'm not comparing it to Crisis Core and DoC, I'm comparing it to VII-XIII (it's a better game than XIII but XIII had more emotional weight for me). And I am glad that you enjoyed it though; I wish I were able to join you in that.

    I also liked the development with the main 4 when Ignis was blinded, that was definitely a high point. It affected me much more than Luna's death because Ignis had been with us throughout the game where Luna never even had a conversation with Noct outside of 2 or 3 flashbacks. I wish they'd played more with those tensions from Ignis's blindness though; we had that one dungeon where Noctis was being a dick and then as they came out Ignis says "Right let's sort this out" and they just kinda sort it all out there and then. It would have been nice to see that conflict carry on for a while longer.

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