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Thread: Are all games equal? Should they be?

  1. #61
    Feel the Bern Recognized Member Del Murder's Avatar
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    That's why you get a random sample or at least understand the biases in your sample.

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  2. #62

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    Since Hironobu Sakaguchi can look at games like XV and XIV and deem both to be worthy of the name Final Fantasy, I don't see what the problem is. That is unless we're going to completely ignore the godfather's viewpoint.
    "I'm seeing it clearer/Hating the picture in the mirror/They claim we inferior/So why the f**k these devils fear ya?/I'm watching my nation die genocide the cause/Expect a blood bath/The aftermath is y'alls/I told ya last album, we need help cause we dying/Give us a chance, help us advance cause we trying/Ignore my whole plea, watching us in disgust/And then they beg when my guns bust/They don't give a f**k about us" 2pac ft. Outlawz- "They Don't Give a F**k About Us"

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalxxSin View Post
    Since Hironobu Sakaguchi can look at games like XV and XIV and deem both to be worthy of the name Final Fantasy, I don't see what the problem is. That is unless we're going to completely ignore the godfather's viewpoint.
    That's the plan. Just because I admire his work doesn't mean I agree with his opinion on everything. He also thought 'The Spirits Within' was worthy of the name Final Fantasy.

  4. #64
    Recognized Member Scotty_ffgamer's Avatar
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    I feel like each game has been polarizing or and kind of a rotation of what kind of game it is. before, it was story focused or more gameplay focused. Jobs or no jobs. The PS era was kind of weird in that they were trying to be more realistic and were a bit more samey in a lot of ways. Then it kind of went back to the rotation, Although it was more a linear and non linear rotation. X was linear and with a more focused narrative at the forefront. Xi an MMO. Xii became more open and focused on exploration and such. Xiii was more linear with more of a narrative focus. Xiv was an MMO. XV is more open and focused on narrative.

  5. #65
    Fragaria addict Momiji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalxxSin View Post
    Since Hironobu Sakaguchi can look at games like XV and XIV and deem both to be worthy of the name Final Fantasy, I don't see what the problem is. That is unless we're going to completely ignore the godfather's viewpoint.
    Just because you acknowledge the viewpoint of someone else doesn't mean you have to agree with it by any means whatsoever. Death of the author and all that.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Momiji View Post
    ....
    I'll put it this way. I'm going to the value the viewpoint of a person that literally is the reason why we are having this circle conversation in the first place, over any outsiders viewpoint any day of the week including my own. This isn't even about agreeing or disagreeing at this point with me.
    "I'm seeing it clearer/Hating the picture in the mirror/They claim we inferior/So why the f**k these devils fear ya?/I'm watching my nation die genocide the cause/Expect a blood bath/The aftermath is y'alls/I told ya last album, we need help cause we dying/Give us a chance, help us advance cause we trying/Ignore my whole plea, watching us in disgust/And then they beg when my guns bust/They don't give a f**k about us" 2pac ft. Outlawz- "They Don't Give a F**k About Us"

  7. #67
    Fragaria addict Momiji's Avatar
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    The fact that this conversation is even being had to begin with should be automatic indication that the viewpoint of the creator is not flawless, and should not be treated as such. But if you're going to dismiss any and all criticism just like that, then there's no conversation to be had. How disappointing.

    But, don't forget that these "outsiders" you speak of are literally the reason why Square even survived to last this long to begin with. The reason that we're even able to have this conversation is because demand for the Final Fantasy series existed in the first place. Had it not, Final Fantasy would have been a one-off game by a company that went under thirty years ago. If the viewpoints of the consumers are not valued, they will be dissatisfied-- and dissatisfied consumers will be averse to supporting the company any further.

    But I'm tired of trying to represent my perspective any further than this. All I really wanted was to agree to disagree and have my opinion be respected as valid, but there's no amicable resolution to be found here.

  8. #68
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    It's probably also worth noting that Final Fantasy games tend to be some of the best games out there for their time. For FFI-VI, they were 2D and effectively relied on a chessboard style of map which quite simply was about as good as you got for JRPGs at that time. Comparing FFI-VI to VII-XV is, to me, rather silly. To me, there are more similarities between VII and XV than there are between I and VII. The age of video games has changed notably, and if Final Fantasy were to stick to the old style of games, the series would quite probably never have survived as long as it has.

    Also, "If you like ___, you'll probably like ___" stuff annoys me, because in my experience while they can have a very similar feel overall when you look at the games, I-VI are extremely variable in which ones you'll like. I adore FFV, while FFII is probably my least enjoyed in the entire series, and I feel FFI probably has the worst story in the entire series.

    When thinking of Final Fantasy themes, one could argue that there are more "traditional" Final Fantasy things in FFXV than there are in FFI.
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  9. #69

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    It's funny, if I went back to FFI now I'd probably say the same thing about it that I do about XV: "Wow, did they just forget to write the story or something?" I would probably even call it a "bad Final Fantasy game," because that definition is subjective and does evolve over time, these things I do not dispute. FFI kinda gets a free pass on that one due to being the original and thus, at the time of its release, had no point of comparison.

    You're also right to say that it is extremely variable in terms of which you like from that original group, despite being ostensibly similar games. That rather illustrates what I'm trying to say as well though; if even similar games can be so incredibly divisive, how mad do you have to be to do something completely unlike anything before it, like XI, XII and XV have done? That's just asking for trouble.

  10. #70
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    That goes back to my 2D vs. 3D thing. I almost (not quite) feel like I could say FFI-VI are one series, and FFVII-XV are another. I legit think every FF from FFVII onwards has more in common with every other FF from FFVII onwards than it does with FFI, FFII, FIII etc. The only exception to that might be FFIX. And that's purely on atmosphere grounds, not gameplay.
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  11. #71
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    I have a hard time enjoying the NES games, even when they're freshened up on GBA, PS1 or PSP. I also don't really find FF4 very stellar (more like lunar, hah!). I like the ones from 5 to 8, find ff9 acceptable and 10 and 12 good. I was hyped as smurf for FF13 but it just fell flat. I really tried to like it, and i had absolutely no bad things to say about its setting, protagonist or whatever prior to playing it.

    I don't think 1 and 5 are at all similar, other than very superficially. They're more different than 7 and 10.
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  12. #72
    Sh♥tposter Extraordinaire Jinx's Avatar
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    You really shouldn't erase the quote you're quoting. Otherwise what's the point? xD It makes it hard to tell what exactly you're responding to.
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  13. #73
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loony BoB View Post
    That goes back to my 2D vs. 3D thing. I almost (not quite) feel like I could say FFI-VI are one series, and FFVII-XV are another. I legit think every FF from FFVII onwards has more in common with every other FF from FFVII onwards than it does with FFI, FFII, FIII etc. The only exception to that might be FFIX. And that's purely on atmosphere grounds, not gameplay.
    I don't agree with you there, I think the PlayStation 1 era trio have more in common with the SNES trio than they do with any title from XI onwards.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalxxSin View Post
    Since Hironobu Sakaguchi can look at games like XV and XIV and deem both to be worthy of the name Final Fantasy, I don't see what the problem is. That is unless we're going to completely ignore the godfather's viewpoint.
    Funny you bring that up. Sakaguchi just did an interview where he stated he was literally brought onto the stage to endorse Final Fantasy XV. Square Enix wanted him to show his face one in awhile as the creator of the series, and Tabata asked him to endorse the game to encourage his development team.

    It seems like an entirely PR-based endorsement.


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  15. #75
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Except before that Sakaguchi was consulted on a number of occasions.

    Also, Sakaguchi is the guy that left the company for creative reasons. I think he's the last person to endorse something he doesn't believe is worth endorsing.

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