I actually didn't mind it at all. It reminded me of the older JRPGs where there's always that one gruelingly long dungeon you have to trudge through.
I didn't even ever think about it being bad until I read complaints about it online after the fact.
I actually didn't mind it at all. It reminded me of the older JRPGs where there's always that one gruelingly long dungeon you have to trudge through.
I didn't even ever think about it being bad until I read complaints about it online after the fact.
Last edited by DMKA; 12-17-2016 at 12:18 AM.
Yes, same xD If no-one had said anything I don't think I would've bat an eyelid. They just need to shave off 20 or so minutes.Originally Posted by DMKA
*cough*CHAPTER10FFXIII*cough* Sorry it's the cold and flu season.
Overall, my only real beef was that is was way too long. The samey corridors, "stealth" sections, and jump-scares would have worked better if the sections had been more tightly designed and shorter. After awhile it went from"Oh gawd it caught me!!" to "not again...". I didn't mind having the combat shifted around, I felt it really gave the Ring of Lucis a chance to shine and I enjoyed using its powers. It also wouldn't have helped for me cause I need the other party members and access to their Tech skills to keep combat enjoyable, otherwise spamming attacks and dodge/counters would have gotten just as old. Even when I finally got a sword, I rarely used it until the whole party was back together.
My bigger beefs with the Chapter was the huge letdown that was storming the Empire and learning that they pretty much destroyed themselves before you even got there. I was looking forward to the Emperor and Ravus to finally get some screen time and they pulled a Jihl Nabaat on me instead. Prompto's plot twist was also kind of dumb and came out of nowhere.
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
I thought chapter 10 of FFXIII was an interesting one. I also thought this one was good, just a bit too long. I love how a MagiTek can spot you, you hide and he drags you out of the corner. To an extent.
Considering Final Fantasy XIII is one of my favorite games ever, I thought chapter 10 from that game was incredible.*cough*CHAPTER10FFXIII*cough* Sorry it's the cold and flu season.
Overall, my only real beef was that is was way too long. The samey corridors, "stealth" sections, and jump-scares would have worked better if the sections had been more tightly designed and shorter. After awhile it went from"Oh gawd it caught me!!" to "not again...". I didn't mind having the combat shifted around, I felt it really gave the Ring of Lucis a chance to shine and I enjoyed using its powers. It also wouldn't have helped for me cause I need the other party members and access to their Tech skills to keep combat enjoyable, otherwise spamming attacks and dodge/counters would have gotten just as old. Even when I finally got a sword, I rarely used it until the whole party was back together.
My bigger beefs with the Chapter was the huge letdown that was storming the Empire and learning that they pretty much destroyed themselves before you even got there. I was looking forward to the Emperor and Ravus to finally get some screen time and they pulled a Jihl Nabaat on me instead. Prompto's plot twist was also kind of dumb and came out of nowhere.
Not only is the theme that plays (Will to Fight) one of my absolute favorite songs from the entire game, but the chapter itself has so much variety.
First of all, it has a really unique vibe to it. Fresh off of chapter 9 (which is one of the best chapters in the game) where you escaped the Palamecia and fought Dysley, the group has crashed into the Fifth Ark. It has a pretty somber atmosphere at the start, as the party decides whether to complete their Focus and destroy Cocoon, or follow Serah's wish and save it. Chapter 10 also includes the "conclusion" of Cid Raines' story in the game more or less, which I thought was pretty well done.
Not only is the story and the music for this chapter really good, but the setting and enemies are interesting. Fifth Ark actually originates from Gran Pulse, and is full of subways and skyscrapers. The setting actually feels pretty large. There are so many different enemies you encounter: Flans, Behemoths, Pulsework enemies, Frag Leeches, Zwerg droids, Bombs etc.
I think this chapter actually includes pretty much everything I like about XIII.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
Oh my God
Chapter 10 was literally the party going "I guess this is where we grind"
Chapter 10 in XIII did have a pretty dank grind spot. There was one Frag Leech spawn where you could blitz them for 640cp each battle. Pretty good to farm up before the Gran Pulse section.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
I actually enjoyed the chapter in how it was supposed to be lost and frustrating like Noctis is feeling. The revelations of the chapters? Poorly handled.
We'll have to agree to disagree then because I consider XIII to be the worst FF if not one of the worst games I played last generation. Nothing happens in Chapter 10 that either under-performs due to poor planning or is completely made pointless a few chapters later. It's stuck between the more impactful Chapter 9 where the writer's suddenly remembered they should actually have a real plot and villain; and it comes before Chapter 11, where the party finally reaches Pulse (the only fun part of the game) where the party ultimately dicks around for several hours before the bad guy shows up to reveal they had a better Plan B anyway.
Fang faces her Eidolon, but she's barely been in the plot and is the least developed character in the story at this point, her revelations doesn't reveal really anything new or exciting about her. You have Cid, another poorly utilized side character who is barely in the plot enough to be impactful, suddenly reveal he's working for the bad guys which would have been more interesting if the story had done a better job building him up as an ally beyond being told he's the head of the rebellion against Dysley. He decides to kill you, which is pretty much what everyone you meet wants to do, so no surprises there, makes the sacrifice to spurn the party on to find another way (they don't) and his rebellion/sacrifice is made moot two chapter later when he's revealed to still be around and being Dysley's little bitch.
The chapter involves just what you've been for the previous 9 chapters, running through samey corridors, fighting said corridors samey villains, which are mainly just beefier color swaps of enemies you've fought a dozen times or more before this point. The Paradigm system finally completely opens up, but a) you already have access to the full party (finally) with each one having at least one Paradigm Role properly developed so it's easier to just use a proper party over wasting time leveling up low level roles, b) most of the secondary roles cost two to three times as much XP making them a waste of time to level over just hoarding XP to level up their better roles once a new chapter starts and the level limiter gets raised again, and c) Pulse is a way better leveling spot for the party, especially for gil to raise your gear (the thing that really matters) so basically this chapter is just prolonging your way to the better part of the game.
The Chapter is completely pointless, Cid's revelation of working for the bad guys would have worked better in Chapter 9, giving the impression you're walking into a trap, and his story impact of fighting fate would have worked better if he wasn't brought back two chapters later showing that man is fate's bitch which sends a really confusing message about the game's central theme. Fang should have gotten her Eidolon last, since she's not only the final party member but needed more development to create actual conflict that needs to be resolved instead of rushing through it and making her feel out of place in the whole story. Chapter 9 and 11 would have worked better not to have a slower and ultimately pointless story/game chapter separating the story and game highs of the whole title. There are so many story and game design problems with Chapter 10 that it ultimately ruins the flow of the game, whereas XV's Chapter 13 is at least a giant build up to the story's bigger revelations, and as Summoner of Leviathan mentions, the gameplay changes work to place the player in the same mindset of Noctis who is confused, frustrated, and ultimately sick of all the trout you're being put through.
The big clincher here for me is that I feel removing Chapter 10 in XIII wouldn't hurt the game one bit. Whereas removing Chapter 13 in XV would be very problematic for the game overall, because actual relevant trout happens in it. Chapter 13's issue is that it overstays it's welcome, gives the raw deal to Nifelheim's cast, and the last ditch effort to give Prompto some character development horribly backfires.
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
I get the feeling Prompto's big reveal was supposed to elicit a big "OMGWTF!!" reaction from us but instead I was just a bit "meh". Might have something to do with the game refusing to flesh out its characters.
Hopefully his DLC will help...
I'm under the impression it was designed to make you pick up the DLC.I get the feeling Prompto's big reveal was supposed to elicit a big "OMGWTF!!" reaction from us but instead I was just a bit "meh". Might have something to do with the game refusing to flesh out its characters.
Hopefully his DLC will help...
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
And that's everything wrong with modern gaming, in a nutshell.
I guess that's the business model now!
You must not have played many games then. And out of those, you must have only played very highly rated games. Because even if you dislike XIII, calling it "one of the worst games of the generation" is an extreme overreaction.
Chapter 10 is a transitional chapter. Chapters 4-8 are about the group going off on their own ways and developing their stories (Snow/Fang, Lightning/Hope, Sazh/Vanille) leading into the eventual confrontation with Dysley in Chapter 9 with the gang back together. The plot was always progressing towards Pulse. Chapter 10 therefore acts as somewhat of a transitional chapter, which I think it excels at. The characters reinforce their convictions, and resolve to move forward into Pulse.
The only part I have an issue with is how close the Fang, Hope and Vanille Eidolon encounters are to each other. They weren't paced well. Aside from that, Fang was only introduced in Chapter 6. And she makes it clear from the outset that she's from Pulse, so we won't get more of her backstory until we reach that place which is in Chapter 11. And whether or not you find her story interesting or not is entirely your opinion. I personally found her and Vanille's dynamic interesting, considering they both awoke from a crystal stasis yet she was the only one who lost her memories.Fang faces her Eidolon, but she's barely been in the plot and is the least developed character in the story at this point, her revelations doesn't reveal really anything new or exciting about her. You have Cid, another poorly utilized side character who is barely in the plot enough to be impactful, suddenly reveal he's working for the bad guys which would have been more interesting if the story had done a better job building him up as an ally beyond being told he's the head of the rebellion against Dysley. He decides to kill you, which is pretty much what everyone you meet wants to do, so no surprises there, makes the sacrifice to spurn the party on to find another way (they don't) and his rebellion/sacrifice is made moot two chapter later when he's revealed to still be around and being Dysley's little bitch.
Cid's presence in the plot wasn't substantial enough to be impactful when he unwillingly betrays you, but that doesn't mean he's a bad character. He was an unfortunate character. He had been an ally to the party numerous times (helping Snow find the party, bringing them together, helping them board the Palamecia) and wanted to help them even more by overthrowing the fal'Cie. He acts as a vessel for the party to continue their journey; when you beat him, he tells you to choose your own fate and disregard your focus of destroying Cocoon. His words are pretty important considering that's exactly what the party sets out to do.
Cid's entire reasoning for fighting the party is completely different from anyone else's at this point in the game. Because in his mind, he wants to kill you to free you from your focus and save Cocoon. He's not fighting you because Dysley told him to. He turned himself into a Cie'th to fight against his fate, his focus. And his sacrifice isn't moot; he was intended to be revived as the new Primarch. He fought against the fal'Cie by ordering Rygdea to kill him. Cid's story echoes the entire theme of the game: challenging your fate.
This is a common complaint about the game I hear, and it's absolutely asinine. The "corridor simulator" complaint. You know what else is a corridor simulator? Super Mario Bros. That's right, you're on a straight linear path to the end of the game, fighting samey enemies, running through samey environments and levels. But guess what? No one gives a trout. Because Super Mario Bros. is a good game. It's a fun game. And so is Final Fantasy XIII. I love walking through beautiful, unique environments. I love being able to encounter enemies on the map, engage them in battle, and figuring out the most efficient way to win. Let's take another "corridor simulator" example: Final Fantasy X. A game many people consider being the last "good" Final Fantasy. Yet it's even more linear than XIII. There's no huge open world like Pulse in X. Just a linear story with unique environments and enemies along the way. But no one cares about how linear it is, because in the end it's a good game. Just like XIII.The chapter involves just what you've been for the previous 9 chapters, running through samey corridors, fighting said corridors samey villains, which are mainly just beefier color swaps of enemies you've fought a dozen times or more before this point.
People seem to associate "linear" with "bad" yet forget that some of their favorite games were even more linear.
Each character has 3 primary roles, and they don't take long to level up pre-chapter 11. I was able to get mine filled out on all characters and bank some extra CP before Pulse with very minimal grinding. There's definitely room to mix and match party members you want to experiment with. And the secondary roles are almost entirely designed for the lategame.The Paradigm system finally completely opens up, but a) you already have access to the full party (finally) with each one having at least one Paradigm Role properly developed so it's easier to just use a proper party over wasting time leveling up low level roles, b) most of the secondary roles cost two to three times as much XP making them a waste of time to level over just hoarding XP to level up their better roles once a new chapter starts and the level limiter gets raised again, and c) Pulse is a way better leveling spot for the party, especially for gil to raise your gear (the thing that really matters) so basically this chapter is just prolonging your way to the better part of the game.
The chapter is not pointless at all. Like I stated before, it is a transitional chapter. It's meant to bridge the heavy plot-focused, boss-battle oriented chapter 9 and the exploration-based chapter 11. You can't just have heavy action and heavy plot all the time; you need to pace it out and provide a respite from it every now and then. Chapter 10 does a phenomenal job of that because it acts as a very nice interlude between the two chapters. And I feel like you completely misunderstood Cid's story because, again, he still fought against his fate by ordering Rygdea to kill him in order to defy Dysley's wishes. Fang was given more than enough development by the end of the game. Her entire backstory and relationship with Vanille is completely fleshed out, as well as her motivations for being with the party.The Chapter is completely pointless, Cid's revelation of working for the bad guys would have worked better in Chapter 9, giving the impression you're walking into a trap, and his story impact of fighting fate would have worked better if he wasn't brought back two chapters later showing that man is fate's bitch which sends a really confusing message about the game's central theme. Fang should have gotten her Eidolon last, since she's not only the final party member but needed more development to create actual conflict that needs to be resolved instead of rushing through it and making her feel out of place in the whole story. Chapter 9 and 11 would have worked better not to have a slower and ultimately pointless story/game chapter separating the story and game highs of the whole title. There are so many story and game design problems with Chapter 10 that it ultimately ruins the flow of the game
Chapter 10 actually helps the flow of the game by giving the player a transition and respite from the intense chapter it preceded. It also set up the nice chapter quite nicely with Cid Raines' story providing the characters motivation and a clear objective.
Story's bigger revelations? Like how the game did all of the antagonists dirty? How the empire's demise was detailed in the form of optional letters you have to pick up off of desks? It revealed that the game was rushed and incomplete, sure. I don't know how you could possibly argue that XV was better than XIII in any way, especially the story. All of XIII's antagonists got proper closure and had complete story arcs. You have to learn about XV's antagonists through a smurfing collectible.whereas XV's Chapter 13 is at least a giant build up to the story's bigger revelations, and as Summoner of Leviathan mentions, the gameplay changes work to place the player in the same mindset of Noctis who is confused, frustrated, and ultimately sick of all the trout you're being put through.
The big clincher here for me is that I feel removing Chapter 10 in XIII wouldn't hurt the game one bit. Whereas removing Chapter 13 in XV would be very problematic for the game overall, because actual relevant trout happens in it. Chapter 13's issue is that it overstays it's welcome, gives the raw deal to Nifelheim's cast, and the last ditch effort to give Prompto some character development horribly backfires.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
I'm sorry, but comparing linearity in an RPG to that in a 2D platformer is a perfect example of false equivalency. And even if you disregard that, at least Mario gives you the option to sequence break if you're smart enough to try some things whereas FFXIII puts you on a literal straight path both literally and in the character progression system (where you can only level up your characters as much as the game lets you at any point) in a genre that has always been about exploration.
And comparing it to X means nothing because Wolf dislikes it too
In any case, every part of this discussion is opinion. I don't think there's a real quantifiable means of making a good or bad game. In this case, it's really the matter of what annoys you and how much it annoys you.
Final Fantasy XIII's problem was nothing in-game but peer pressure. From the very beginning in December 2009 the Western audience who has not even officially gotten the game released articles about how the game was "Linear as a piece of string" and showed idiotic examples of maps. You know what did not look like that? Final Fantasy XII. And you know what? I had to read in 2007 when it came out in Europe how many people hated Final Fantasy XII for various reasons like the plot and that the characters are "soulless", even saw screenshots of people breaking their DVD just because they hated the game. And what was back when Final Fantasy X-2 came out? Exactly the same. "Uh it is nothing but a big game of sidequests and mini games, uh it is just a girly game with Sailor Moon animation".
Final Fantasy XIII does lack diversity in terms of what you can do. But it was needlessly pushed up through this atrocious spoiled fanbase.
Final Fantasy XV can still save certain story elements for me but it has one big minus when it comes to first impression: At the end of every FF I literally cried. I did not here. And that is not good. And if not for the final scene I would not know how to feel about the game. Just as XIII-2 had the potential to be hated by me if it would have been the end of the XIII series.
Last edited by Sephiroth; 12-20-2016 at 01:48 PM.
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