While I'll disagree that's the only problem XIII had, I will agree that the FF fanbase is incredibly spoiled, but that's also completely justified by how big and diverse it is.
While I'll disagree that's the only problem XIII had, I will agree that the FF fanbase is incredibly spoiled, but that's also completely justified by how big and diverse it is.
I do not say it had no flaws. I just think it is substancial enough to call it the worst game since E.T. for Atari came out.Originally Posted by Fynn
Well, I haven't played ET, but XIII is certainly one of the worst gaming experiences I've had, tbh
This was a hyperbole of mine to show the disgust of the fanbase. You can always look up E.T.
Just look at this fanbase. Really so many aspects of it can be lead back to what I call the "Anti-Hype Hype". Final Fantasy VI without any actual doubt was always a very much liked game. And totally justified in my opinion. However, back when I got first real access to the virtual world, while VI had its big fanbase, it never was treated like this "VII is such an overrated trout, VI is the real deal" representation.
Only a while later people then started to build this Anti-Hype Hype train that was supposed to carry Final Fantasy VI and all the other elements that fans had as part of their ideal for Final Fantasy in mind while this train was supposed to wreck really everything that was not on board. VII, a game that did not feature an almost completely shallow harlequin, opinions of the fanbase about games which could be contradicted by just playing the games or listening to creators, the fans' lack of understanding of certain words which they did not care about because it was just what others said so they hopped on board ... all that was supposed to be doomed. Why? Because it is cool to not go with the flow. Instead, ironically they created their own flow to go with. Nobody likes to read in the newspaper "the world is okay", right? Talking about what bad happened in your eyes in way more interesting. And don't even dare to be someone who tries to say something against it because once the flaws of what got loved through the Anti-Hype Hype will get pointed out, the double standards show once more and try to wipe away your argument. I will not go on with examples now or I could simply give you the links of forums, with eyesonff being included.
The thing here is, no one - or at least no one who is sane - should actually have a problem with people liking or disliking something. It often is the problematic reasoning, inconsistent within either the person or what they rated and of course also the behaviour of people that follows from it (both sides). Quite ridiculous if we are honest, considering what we are talking about but who am I trying to fool here. Humanity is always like that.
You know what I like about the XIII series so much? It is one of the Final Fantasys that gets me actually emotionally invested. Do I want more stuff in XIII? Yes, I do. However, if games get my emotional side that much then one of my greatest expectations is fulfilled.
It's not really false equivalency. My point is a game being linear doesn't make it bad. In fact it actually makes some games even better. Games like The Last of Us are incredibly linear, yet have really expansive levels and open-ended gameplay which make the world feel massive.I'm sorry, but comparing linearity in an RPG to that in a 2D platformer is a perfect example of false equivalency. And even if you disregard that, at least Mario gives you the option to sequence break if you're smart enough to try some things whereas FFXIII puts you on a literal straight path both literally and in the character progression system (where you can only level up your characters as much as the game lets you at any point) in a genre that has always been about exploration.
And comparing it to X means nothing because Wolf dislikes it too
In any case, every part of this discussion is opinion. I don't think there's a real quantifiable means of making a good or bad game. In this case, it's really the matter of what annoys you and how much it annoys you.
People who whined about XIII being a "corridor simulator" just really bother me. They associate a game being straightforward as being bad. And they love to jump on the XIII hate bandwagon because it's the cool thing to do. For me, after playing XV, I really wish they had gone more in the style of XIII.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
Well, to me, Mario works because you still have a lot to do on the way that depends on your input. In XIII, just holding forward and getting to mash A every battle just got insanely tedious after a while since there really wasn't anything for you to do. There was no way to really dodge the enemies, and it was really futile to do so because the game had already set up a course for you that must be followed because that's the only way for you to be properly leveled.
Of course linearity doesn't have to be a bad thing. I am now replaying FFVIII as part of my marathon of all the games, and it's definitely the most linear experience up to that point when it comes to the story, but with the Junction system, the card game, and the various ways you can play the game, there is just so much stuff to do that it doesn't take away from the experience. For me, XIII was just mind-numbingly boring in terms of gameplay, which would have been terrible even if the story was good. Xenosaga is also an insanely linear game, but the story is fantastic and at least you have to think a little bit on how to navigate dungeons, and there's even a puzzle thrown in here and there. XIII has none of that in its endless hallways, and Gran Pulse is just way too little too late.
I for one cannot imagine how anyone could want this instead of a nice big world to get yourself lost in, but that's just how we all work - everybody has different tastes and sensibilities. And that's okay.
This "You only have to mash A/X" complaint is so blown out of proportion. If you do not manage to switch to the right job classes and such in XIII then you can easily lose so it is not just "mash button xyz". And what is there even to say about other Final Fantasys? Final Fantasy can always be reduced to just a bunch of necessary commands. And in all FFs, also XIII, you can choose to not just go the auto-attack way. Hell, I hated the Gambit idea of automatic battle in XII so much because THAT felt like me not doing anything that I really only used a few of them and pretty much did every single turn myself. Final Fantasy XIII has fast-paced battles so it at least is sort of a good option to have a "what the game considers a smart technique choice" option.
And you can dodge a lot of enemies in XIII. Even those that seem to me not avoidable (not all of them of course). Many of them can be dodged by going in battle, restarting right before the battle and then immediately walking past them. But XIII even makes good use of you fighting because it is needed anyway - as long as you do not go a challenge route.
If you ask me, the combat system of XIII totally fits the game itself. For enemies I would still have gone the route of either using bigger areas where they are placed for the illusion of freedom or random battles. Put in a few more different sidequests in the end and I am totally fine. Of course I could still have a few more changes but overall that's it. Put in a dungeon in those Paddra ruins, maybe do some fishing sidequest, something like that. Final Fantasy XIII took a way more realistic approach when it came to accesibility of locations directly connected to the story. That is what made it a bit problematic in some sorts. It did not go the FFVII "you should be encountered by ShinRa all the time as the pretty much rule the planet but you barely meet them at all and can run around wherever you want" route.
Last edited by Sephiroth; 12-20-2016 at 05:36 PM.
Idk, FFXII only played itself if you set it up in that way. Which was an incredibly fulfilling achievement, if you ask me, simply because you did it yourself, not the game.
The game gives you the option by finding those Gambits and then lets you use them. There is not really much of a difference, except if you really literally mean doing the setup and not what it results in. XIII just "already has it in battle". And if you ask me with XII you have this whole concept of it being more like an offline MMO. The battles are not supposed to be as dynamic as they tried to make them look in FFXIII, everything is slower. I don't want to go into every battle when it is this slow. That is way worse for me than what XIII did - which I did not even mind. And as said, in both cases you can even skip that option.
It's funny because I actually think XV is a total downgrade compared to XIII's gameplay.
XV suffers far more from the "mash A every battle to win" problem than XIII. In XV I was able to complete the game without using a single magic spell (of which there are only three) or summon (of which there are only four, each being extremely circumstantial). I will say that I was using quite a few of the party moves like Gladio's Tempest for a big AoE attack, and Ignis' Enhancement for some of the post-game hunts and bosses. The problem is that none of it was really necessary to beat the game, and the combat just felt repetitive/stale.
XIII had a lot of variety with the Paradigm Shift system. You could set a paradigm full of 3 commandos to rush down mobs in 5 seconds at high level, or you could set a paradigm full of 2 saboteurs and 1 synergist to buff/debuff in a boss battle. Then switch to a paradigm full of 3 sentinels before a big attack happens. You needed to have a specific plan to grind certain mobs. Adamantoise farming had at least 4 different methods, and Behemoth/Megistotherian farming also had a few methods. I just really enjoyed how you could utilize the system to efficiently grind against high level enemies that would kill you under normal circumstances. And some bosses like Barthandelus in Chapter 9 would absolutely rail you if you didn't have a strategy. There was a lot of freedom and flexibility in the system that I felt was lacking in XV. XV's combat mostly just boiled down to attack, roll away, and hold square to parry. It felt restrictive. There wasn't really any farming, and there was no real creativity.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
That is not true.
Fire, Thunder and Ice are really the only three magic in the game. Sure there are permutations such as venomcast, but they are all variations of the main three. And crafting any spells outside of the main three is extremely tedious and honestly not worth it (save for expericast for the XP boost). I'm obviously excluding the Ring of the Lucii because it isn't acquired until Chapter 13.That is not true.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
Fire, Thunder and Ice are really the only three magic in the game. Sure there are permutations such as venomcast, but they are all variations of the main three. And crafting any spells outside of the main three is extremely tedious and honestly not worth it (save for expericast for the XP boost). I'm obviously excluding the Ring of the Lucii because it isn't acquired until Chapter 13.That is not true.
What does it matter if there are three elements that are the basis for all spells. There are tons of spells in the game nonetheless. And not every fire elemental spell looks the same, et cetera. Look at Electon, Flare, et cetera.
And do the Level 99 No Item Dungeon without Healing Spell. If you manage to do that, then wow.
It matters because everything is just a permutation of the same three spells. You get a fire spell with a poison effect, it's still ultimately a fire spell. It's not a pure poison spell like Bio in past FF games. The crafting system is also not really easy to understand and doesn't really feel as natural. Having to collect the resources to use the spells, then collect parts of monsters to be able to craft better spells is just really tedious and not fun. I'd rather not have to collect spells, parts and then craft to be able to use them, and instead just earn them through leveling up or finding the spell/materia itself from a dungeon.Fire, Thunder and Ice are really the only three magic in the game. Sure there are permutations such as venomcast, but they are all variations of the main three. And crafting any spells outside of the main three is extremely tedious and honestly not worth it (save for expericast for the XP boost). I'm obviously excluding the Ring of the Lucii because it isn't acquired until Chapter 13.That is not true.
What does it matter if there are three elements that are the basis for all spells. There are tons of spells in the game nonetheless. And not every fire elemental spell looks the same, et cetera. Look at Electon, Flare, et cetera.
And do the Level 99 No Item Dungeon without Healing Spell. If you manage to do that, then wow.
Magic is nowhere near as intuitive or useful in XV as in every other game to date.
Pull my Devil Trigger!
It is just like Materia Fusion in Crisis Core. You must have hated that too.
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