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Thread: A new EoFF Mafia

  1. #16
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    When we usually play here, we don't give a narrative about any specifics besides "so and so died" or "no one died!" But you know, flavored up. Not sure if that's what you were meaning or not. I feel that helps protect like a doctor or cop or whatever. Then the Mafia have to guess what happened to their own kill "WHAT why didn't they die? OH NO there could be a ____ in this game!" Giving more details I think gives the mafia even more information and makes it too easy for them.

    It was always great to watch the mafia team scramble when someone else dies in the night though. When you add in that third party person. Blows their minds usually cause they never suspect it.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    When we usually play here, we don't give a narrative about any specifics besides "so and so died" or "no one died!" But you know, flavored up. Not sure if that's what you were meaning or not. I feel that helps protect like a doctor or cop or whatever. Then the Mafia have to guess what happened to their own kill "WHAT why didn't they die? OH NO there could be a ____ in this game!" Giving more details I think gives the mafia even more information and makes it too easy for them.

    It was always great to watch the mafia team scramble when someone else dies in the night though. When you add in that third party person. Blows their minds usually cause they never suspect it.
    Am I misunderstanding your post, or are you suggesting that the role of whoever was killed by the mafia is not revealed in their death post?

  3. #18
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    Oh no, I'm sorry, I'll clarify what I mean! What I mean is any flavor-text indicating what happened to that person who died or didn't die.

    So like:

    A man scared off a spooky figure and no one died! Day starts!


    So then the mafia know that a) a man b) interrupted their kill c) it didn't go through. They now know far more information about the townies because of the flavor text.

    That I think should be more vague so they don't have all that more of an advantage.

  4. #19
    'Just Friends' Formalhaut's Avatar
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    Flavour text is great (particularly for themed games with themed characters) but yeah, it should be non-specific so as to not assist any one side. Whoever is game master should be conscious of that.


  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Oh no, I'm sorry, I'll clarify what I mean! What I mean is any flavor-text indicating what happened to that person who died or didn't die.

    So like:

    A man scared off a spooky figure and no one died! Day starts!


    So then the mafia know that a) a man b) interrupted their kill c) it didn't go through. They now know far more information about the townies because of the flavor text.

    That I think should be more vague so they don't have all that more of an advantage.
    Well in standard mafia, certain things are communicated to you and certain things aren't.

    If the mafia targets a person who happens to have immunity, they will be told that their target is immune. This isn't communicated to the town, only to the mafia since they were the ones performing the attack.

    If a doctor targets someone to protect, and their target is attacked, they will be told that their target was attacked.

    Basically any actions involving the denial of killing are only communicated to the parties involved. Also, if there is a Serial Killer or another killing role, their existent will be known in the game when they perform a kill. So in the next day's post, it should say " ____ was killed by the Serial Killer" or Veteran, or whoever else can kill.

  6. #21
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    I've played both where the mafia is told what happens to their actions and then the way it's not.

    I prefer the not. Leaving them to guess what happened. That way they aren't told it's a doctor or whatever, they have to guess if it is one or if it is some other crazy role.

    As for the serial killer announcement, I'm super against that. Telling them WHO killed what can mess things up from a knowledge perspective.

    So say there's a doctor, mafia, and a serial killer.

    Mafia targets person A, Doctor protects person A, and SK targets person B. So person B dies come morning.

    Townies don't know about the SK.
    Doctor thinks they just protected the wrong person. Mafia freaks out cause that wasn't their target, so what happened! time to guess what's going on!

    Too much revealed about the actions takes out an element of deduction from the game and I think that makes it even more fun when it's there.

    That's my opinion at least, different GMs host it different ways. It's still fun, that's just my preference.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    I've played both where the mafia is told what happens to their actions and then the way it's not.

    I prefer the not. Leaving them to guess what happened. That way they aren't told it's a doctor or whatever, they have to guess if it is one or if it is some other crazy role.

    As for the serial killer announcement, I'm super against that. Telling them WHO killed what can mess things up from a knowledge perspective.

    So say there's a doctor, mafia, and a serial killer.

    Mafia targets person A, Doctor protects person A, and SK targets person B. So person B dies come morning.

    Townies don't know about the SK.
    Doctor thinks they just protected the wrong person. Mafia freaks out cause that wasn't their target, so what happened! time to guess what's going on!

    Too much revealed about the actions takes out an element of deduction from the game and I think that makes it even more fun when it's there.

    That's my opinion at least, different GMs host it different ways. It's still fun, that's just my preference.
    That's not really the way mafia is played.

    There are a set number of roles in the game, and it's always defined from the start. There will always be a Town Killing, a Town Investigative, a Town Protective, a Town Support, a Random Killing, and at least one "Unknown" role from a selection of a few. Usually it's a random neutral such as Jester or Executioner.

    If you are playing as the mafia, and your kill fails and you receive the message "Your target was immune," you still don't know what role your target was. That information is not revealed. You don't know if you failed to kill a Serial Killer (who has night immunity), a Doctor (who can protect themselves a limited number of times), or someone who the Doctor protected. You still have to deduce things by playing the game.

    The presence of a Serial Killer absolutely has to be disclosed in the game. Obviously you wouldn't reveal who it is that has the role, but there needs to be a distinction between who is killing who. So a death post would look like "_____ was killed by the mafia" and "____ was killed by the Serial Killer." If two people are dying every night, it's obviously both mafia and SK killing people. This just provides some clarity for the game, and in no way detracts from the "deduction game."

  8. #23
    GO! use leech seed! qwertysaur's Avatar
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    I agree with Freya, and I speak from experience being a GM who did reveal too much and it destroyed the balance of the game. too much information will throw the game off balance in either direction.

    btw I'm down for a game in the near future.

    Edit: Hi Scruffington. I'm professor qwerty, the pokémon professor.

    I've played a lot of forum mafia games, and they work a bit uniquely. There are so many possible roles that can be in play, including some that are created for the game, like lovers where one is a doctor and one is a serial killer, and they are a 3rd party who want to kill everyone else.

    Or there may be 2 mafias in the game, so the town is overloaded with protection roles.

    Lets go with the example you have, a mafia kill fails. It could be from a a protective role, or the mafia member doing the killing could be role-blocked. Or a weird role like bus driver, or nexus that can redirect night actions. Some of those roles rely on the surprise.
    Last edited by qwertysaur; 12-30-2016 at 01:50 AM.

  9. #24
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    Well, Scruffington. That may be how you have played it but we have done it several different ways! So that is actually a way to play the game yes. We've been playing the game here at Eyes on FF since 2007! Crazy long time for a final fantasy forum to be playing this crazy game. If you're curious of all the different convoluted ways we've tinkered with it around here, check out the archived subforum here. In most of those games we update the first post with info as the game went along.

    The way I've described has been my personal favorite way to play the game. It's really up to the host on how they want to play the game. Qwerty here was one of those crazies that threw in everything but the kitchen sink if I remember when he was a host. That was an intense game if I recall correctly. Almost ten years ago, though I think I came out as a winner with a townie on that crazy one! It's been a bit, I'll have to look through our archives myself!

    Karifean wants to go for a more basic set up I believe though. So it shouldn't be too complicated. I was just giving my opinion on how day/night reveals should go

  10. #25
    Untalented Game Designer FFNut's Avatar
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    I am still interested too. This sounds really fun, and would love to fill any role needed.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertysaur View Post
    I've played a lot of forum mafia games, and they work a bit uniquely. There are so many possible roles that can be in play, including some that are created for the game, like lovers where one is a doctor and one is a serial killer, and they are a 3rd party who want to kill everyone else.
    Oh there are definitely a lot of different roles. I've actually hosted several themed games myself years ago where I created new mechanics and roles, and modified pre-existing ones. The thing about mafia, though, is that there are always a few guaranteed roles. The host always has to list the roles in the game, but some can be made a surprise. In Town of Salem, for example, there are a few different Random roles classified as either "Random Town Supportive" (which I believe consists of Doctor, Medium, Escort) or some other form of Random. It's totally fine to keep a select few "random" roles secret, but it should be clarified as to what type of role it is without giving up the specifics. That means that there is still some ambiguity about their role, but it's not completely random. So there is some room for deduction.

    Or there may be 2 mafias in the game, so the town is overloaded with protection roles.
    Every game always has 2 or more mafia. Unless you mean two mafia groups, which requires a lot of people.

    Lets go with the example you have, a mafia kill fails. It could be from a a protective role, or the mafia member doing the killing could be role-blocked. Or a weird role like bus driver, or nexus that can redirect night actions. Some of those roles rely on the surprise.
    The escort cannot necessarily roleblock a kill. If there are two mafia members (Godfather and Escort) and one gets blocked, then the one who is not blocked performs the kill. The requirement is that both players must vote to kill. If only one person votes to kill and they get roleblocked, the kill is blocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Karifean wants to go for a more basic set up I believe though. So it shouldn't be too complicated. I was just giving my opinion on how day/night reveals should go
    What I said actually just serves to streamline the game. If the next day phase post comes up and no one is killed in it, everyone will logically conclude that the kill was stopped. The mafia already knows that their target was immune because their kill didn't go through. Likewise if two people die, everyone will be aware that a second killing role exists. Telling the mafia that their target was immune and exposing who was killed by who only helps the game flow more smoothly. There's no need to "hide" what happened because that's the conclusion you'll arrive at anyways. Not everyone has a lot of time to play this game, so if there's any way we can make the process more efficient and time-friendly, that would be it.

  12. #27
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    See to me it does not. It makes it flow too easily. Less quess work is needed because the GM tells you everything.

    I'm for more deduction and less hand holding.

    Again, just preference. It's up to the host
    Last edited by Freya; 12-30-2016 at 04:09 PM.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    See to me it does not. It makes it flow too easily. Less quess work is needed because the GM tells you everything.

    I'm for more deduction and less hand holding.

    Again, just preference. It's up to the host
    I mean it's not really guess work :P Concealing which faction killed someone in a game isn't making the game more deductive. It makes it far more tedious.

    Plus, there are already a variety of roles in the game that conceal information. Certain information is supposed to be given to you, and other information you have to work for.

  14. #29
    Taking care of business Cid's Knight Bubba's Avatar
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    Please can I play?

  15. #30
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Oh no, I'm sorry, I'll clarify what I mean! What I mean is any flavor-text indicating what happened to that person who died or didn't die.

    So like:

    A man scared off a spooky figure and no one died! Day starts!


    So then the mafia know that a) a man b) interrupted their kill c) it didn't go through. They now know far more information about the townies because of the flavor text.

    That I think should be more vague so they don't have all that more of an advantage.
    On the contrary, I think the flavor text actually makes the game quite a bit harder for the Mafia, because the townies have much more information to go off of. The less information there is going around, the more luck-based for the townies the game becomes, I feel, depending on whether or not the Detective/Cop manages to unmask a Mafia, what roles the Mafia end up eliminating, etc. With this addition both sides get ammo for some information warfare regardless, and it gives the Mafia more of a fighting chance at figuring out the identities of the very dangerous townies before they get unluckily hit. (Though I may or may not be salty atm since the last Mafia game I played ended with both my fellow Mafia being unmasked in the first night >_< )

    Also while they - and everyone else - would know that a 'man' interrupted their kill, in this setup identities are also secret just like abilities and alignments. You can try and reveal your identity to let everyone else have a better idea of where you are in the narrative, but you could be lying to throw people off, and you could be giving your enemies more information than is good for you.

    If you prefer playing the game another way, fair enough, but I would like to at least try a round like this to give everyone a good idea of what it actually plays like. If that's alright with you guys?

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