EoFF Mafia XXVIII Game Thread - Banquet of the Voyager Witches

[Mr. Carnelian]

Why be so self-sacrificial, Mr. Carny?

If it works the way I hope, I wouldn't be sacrificing myself. Plus, we learn a lot however it goes.

After a majority has agreed to it, anyone who last-minute votes to stop it being a draw is probably a witch.

When it comes to a draw, we either find out you (Formy) are a lying witch, or that the truth you gave is TRUE.

If it's a me/no lynch draw then, then the town tie-breaker person can just go for no lynch, and I'm fine.

Otherwise, they can just go for the most suspicious person. If they decide that's me, it's their loss, but they'll find out after I'm dead that I'm town, and that everything I've said can be trusted, so town will still learn something valuable.

It's more important to me that town wins then that I survive until the end.

[Mr. Carnelian]

Most importantly, at least one of the two people in a draw (if we go for a two-person draw) would almost certainly be town, so it might as well be me.

[Mr. Carnelian]

Of course, Formy's purple/red/marigold/whatever statement could be true AND he can could be a witch: as far as I understand, witches don't have to lie about their statements. However, we'd still learn a valuable rule even if that were the case.

[Mr. Carnelian]

Also, just occured to me that the wording of the rule is "they covertly appoint an 'Family Alchemist'", rather than them themselves becoming the Alchemist. That potentially means that the townie who just died could accidentally appoint a witch player as the Alchemist. Of course, the very existence of the Alchemist would still prove that Formy's purple statement is true.

[Mr. Carnelian]

Reposting the truth list so you don't have to keep scrolling all the way back. I'll do this every couple of pages as more "truths" are revealed.

The "truths" so far, in order of reveal:

Mr. Carnelian
Three players are capable of screwing with the narrative writeups.

I think that this where I got the three witches thing from, on reflection. But, it doesn't actually say anything about witches. This is my least favourite truth so far, because it's so goddamn vague. Honestly, I wouldn't blame you for thinking that this might be a fake rule. Hopefully this one will become clearer after we've seen the first writeup.

Pumpkin
One of the Human Aligned players is actually "Cynical Human Aligned", also known as the "Cynic". They have the goal of a Witch Aligned player and are treated as a Witch Aligned player for everyone else's goals.

This is the most Karifean-sounding rule ever. If you are mafia, props for nailing his style. As for what it means, sounds like they're basically an extra witch, except they might not show up as witch if the cop-equivalent investigates them, assuming of course that the cop-equivalent can only see witch/non-witch alignment.

Formalhaut
When a player dies, they covertly appoint a "Family Alchemist" (taking the title from the previous Alchemist if one exists). The Family Alchemist resolves ties during daytime voting.

I've given my take on this already, but here it is again: Formy's rule sounds to me like if there's a tie, whoever has been appointed the Alchemist gets to PM Karifean to resolve a draw, rather than there being a sudden death. Guess we'll see if it's true if we get a draw and it goes to sudden death rather than being resolved through alchemist ruling.

FFNUT
One Human Player is the Village Idiot. This player will receive a night move but it will always backfire on them.

Sounds plausible. More Karifean-style shenanigans.

[Formalhaut]

Reposting the truth list so you don't have to keep scrolling all the way back. I'll do this every couple of pages as more "truths" are revealed.

He's really excited if he's posting stuff just for the sake of it.

[Scruffington]

Went grocery shopping and I'm making dinner. Apologies for the delay.

[Scruffington]

I'm intrigued to learn what Scruffs is now!

Me too. The more truths we have, the more certain we can be that most are them are TRUE, rather than witch lies.

What's with this interaction?

Seems like both of you are trying to pressure me into revealing my statement together. In this instance, I'm placing the same value in my statement as I would in my own role. Any information I can deny the mafia from having is beneficial to myself and to town.

The fact that you're pushing so hard to get statements out is similar to pushing for roleclaims. And it's only Day 1. Scummy.

Just noticed Scruff dropped out of the conversation as soon as we started asking him about things. May be real life stuff though.

No one asked me anything.

[Formalhaut]

I think people are asking you to produce your purple statement. That's kinda been a thing today.

[Scruffington]

Yeah no thanks.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Woah, so much text. Took a while to parse it! Sorry for the lateness, I worked an extra shift this weekend and was extra long. I am sorta DOA.

OMFG I DO NOT NEED TO LOG INTO ANOTHER ACCOUNT YESSSSSS!

I want to point out a few things though!

Revealing your statement right away is beneficial to everyone (witches and humans). It is not necessarily scummy but it will help the witches too. On the other hand, holding your statement back can also be useful to catch a witch in a lie. So I do see Scruff's point.

I am kinda surprised that Carny is volunteering a tribute which makes me question his flavour. I mean it is true that it is an easy way to find out that Formy is lying or not. However, there are a few flaws. First, we do not know if there is a current Alchemist who has this role to decide since the rule was vague regarding that. Second, there are 9 of us so impossible to have a tie unless someone doesn't vote or votes a third way. Third, this can easily result in a lockdown after the 24 hour mark if the third/abstain vote switches sides. So this is a really bad idea which either makes me think it wasn't thought through or that Carny has a special flavour that requires him to be lynched to win (there's such thing, I spent time bored in the mafiascum wiki). Seems like a bad idea, unless you wanted to bait a witch too while you are at it so if someone decides to break the tie since we are odd that would point to them being a witch?

Carny: Three players are capable of screwing with the narrative writeups.

I agree that it is vague, but honestly does "narrative writeups" and "red truth" mean the same thing? I would assume narrative writeups are what Karifean uses in his posts, not so much the same as red truths/hidden rules. Maybe I am making too much of a semantic argument though?

Pumpkin: One of the Human Aligned players is actually "Cynical Human Aligned", also known as the "Cynic". They have the goal of a Witch Aligned player and are treated as a Witch Aligned player for everyone else's goals.

This seems to be a classic Miller twist.

Formy: When a player dies, they covertly appoint a "Family Alchemist" (taking the title from the previous Alchemist if one exists). The Family Alchemist resolves ties during daytime voting.

Sounds to me like a power that is relevant only when there is an even number of players.

Nutty: One Human Player is the Village Idiot. This player will receive a night move but it will always backfire on them.

Quite possible which either means their ability will always do the opposite than what they think or they will always target themselves (literal back-fire).

I'm with Scruff and will withhold my red truth for now. I experienced too much bandwagoning last game (R.I.P. Yukari) and don't like being pigeon-holed.

[Formalhaut]

I laid out my argument for revealing purple statements, though I can see the counter-argument to that. I revealed my purple statement because when I looked at it, I didn't think it was terribly game-breaking (it seems highly situational) and I couldn't see how witches could use that to their advantage, and I'm not going to lie I did reveal my statement just to do something in a Mafia game I wouldn't do normally (be bold).

If there's some mechanic that could be very useful for the witches, I can understand holding back from revealing.

I'm confused about Pumpkin's statement. So there's a human player who has the same goals as a witch? Wouldn't that make them a witch?

Unless it means they are a witch but would come up innocent. Or they are a traitor-type role?

[Formalhaut]

Another thing about the Family Alchemist role I'm confused about: it only says 'when a player dies'.

In a single day/night phase, up to two people die: one is lynched and one is nightkilled. Does that mean the person who is lynched becomes Family Alchemist for like, an hour, before that title is taken back as the player nightkilled elects the next Alchemist?

Sheesh, talk about wiggle-room.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

I'm confused about Pumpkin's statement. So there's a human player who has the same goals as a witch? Wouldn't that make them a witch?

Unless it means they are a witch but would come up innocent. Or they are a traitor-type role?

Yes, Traitor, I was mixing it with Miller.

Most likely means they will come up "human" when investigated but win with witches. Also, probably has a power role too since there is no vanilla roles, unless by virtue of being a Traitor they are not vanilla.

Also, why are we assuming all actions are night actions? It is possible Karifean is playing his own twists. I feel like one role has a double vote given ability "Coerce" or "Glare", or any other tbh.

[Formalhaut]

Yeah, that's a good point. We've not really had any dayphase actions in EoFF, but this is Karifinese Mafia. Up is down, left is right, and sandwich leap from the hands of their human oppressors.

I feel like if there are Dayphase roles that can drastically affect the game, they are probably x-shot, most likely one-shot use. Or, they may have an ability which is weaker (but can always be used), or a one-shot variant that is significantly more potent but can only be used once.

Who knows. But you're right: we shouldn't assume people can only operate at night.