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Thread: Chrono Cross - favorite character?

  1. #31

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    I went with Guile again because I had forgotten about CC's Ranking System or whatever it's called.

    I know some people like how FFXIII "capped" you to prevent overleveling and grinding and it's cool CC did that too back in the day. But it also means that the game that is already making you use only two characters out of a cast of 40 or 50 also ensures you use only the same two characters to gain all those Ranks.

    So Pierre could be amazing in the endgame but I'd have to reliably use him for most of the game and I don't want to.

    Incidentally, it's interesting that I and many others didn't even realize there was a choice in this matter. I thought Guile was the only way in during my first run and I've seen others say similar about Pierre and Nikki.

    I also had forgotten Guile had such a great design.

  2. #32
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Well I mean, he's basically Magus so of course he would be stylish. My favorite thing about the choice was also that each path is completely unique to the character and the scenarios only converge once you're inside the manor. Nikki takes you through a secret path in a nearby swamp, Guile has you scale the cliffs on the far side of the Manor, and Pierre has you fight your way through the front door.

    Honestly, CC was never difficult to the point where switching out party members was ever an issue, Guile is just unique cause he's a crutch character in the early game, but Nikki and Pierre are no slouches either, one just gets overshadowed quickly and the other is one of the game's many MANY Lethal Joke characters. The only time the game kind of screws you into having to use a specific character is during the Dragon Orb quest, as all of the Dragon's have unique armor that needs to be stolen so it's imperative that you either have Fargo or Kid in your party, it's honestly the bigger incentive to doing the Marbule quest since you can't fight the Black Dragon unless you do it, and that armor is indispensable for dealing with the game's last real challenge Dario.

  3. #33

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    Or you could just break Dario's AI like I had to do. But I still really wish I had that Black Plate.... I didn't choose to not do the sidequest.I missed a lot of content in my first run but missing out on that subplot was entirely accidental and it was very easy to do. Bad game design there.

    There ain't no Elemental Plates in the mod I'm playing though. I love Kid but I'm gonna be ignoring her since I already had one playthrough all with her, and I am meh about Fargo, so I might just forego stealing all game. It's very useful and good (I got a Magic Ring from not Lynx and that is very cool to have) but I want to use more characters and I used both of them all the time last run precisely for their stealing ability.

    I have NeoFio, Greco and Luccia now. I never got NeoFio last run and I got Luccia right at the end of the game and never used her. I was interested in maybe using her but she's Black Innate an I have Guile so she's out. And I don't care about Greco or NeoFio.

    But man, Guile's tiny-ass Grid is killing me. He's a mage, why can't the game let him mage more? I have Razzly now and she's adorable so I think I'm gonna be rolling with Serge, Guile and Razzly for the foreseeable future. I dunno if there even are any other party members to recruit in teh near future... Skelly if I ever find all his parts i guess but he sucks apparently. (I did see a cutscene of when Lynx owns your party at Dragonia though where Skelly gets blown to pieces and that was pretty great. Good attention to detail)

  4. #34
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Skelly's not too bad, especially if you didn't pick Guile as your entry into Viper Manor, since he would likely be the best innate Black Element you'll have until Ft. Dragonia, then the challenge is finding someone to replace Serge as your dominant White Element. Despite playing the game several times back in the day, I honestly didn't experiment too often with the party selection since most of them rubbed me the wrong way. I usually stuck to Kid, Leena, Glenn, the little turnip knight, Skelly, Guile, Norris, Gorbyc, Fargo, and Karsh for most of the game.

    I think the reason why Suikoden's massive casts of characters never bothered me was because like 90% of them felt like they were meant to be there whereas CC's cast really feels like the staff was just trying to fill the game with as many "wackyNSFW" characters as they could regardless of whether they fit in the setting or not.

  5. #35

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    Well, I mean, the Chrono-verse is pretty eclectic. The first game had a robot, a princess, a cavewoman, some village kids, a frog-man and an ancient wizard.

    I'm not saying I like them but how does FunGuy or NeoFio not fit in with that?

    Poshul though, smurf Poshul.

    Anyway, I just got to Fort Dragonia. You must get most of the characters in the second half of the game. Razzly died fighting the Hiho Tank and I spent literal hours on that boss fight so I'm not redoing it. Those stat gains are gone forever and I had no real interest in her being an endgame party member anyway. But my point is, I have:
    Serge, Kid, NeoFio, Guile, Luccia, Mojo,Skelly, Leena, Poshul, Greco, Razzly

    That makes 11 when I know this game has a cast of 40-something. You must get most of the cast in the second half. I know I remember very distinctly a hilarious moment when everyone from the "Viper Manor Crew" joins up. You know how each time somebody joins there's the victory music and a witty character-specific line? I remember how the victory music just went crazy and wouldn't stop when Viper, the Dragoons and Riddel all join up.At least I think they all joined at the same time...

    I ignored the characters I didn't find interesting so I forgot a lot about pretty much everyone. There are a ton of Black Innates in this first half though between Guile, Mojo, Luccia and Skelly. Almost no Yellows though except Poshul and it's smurfin' Poshul so they don't even really count.

    They probably gave a huge cast because they have 6 Elements to work with and want to make sure you find somebody you like who represents each of them. But that still probably would make a cast of...18 maybe? 3 characters per Element seems fair.

  6. #36

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    So was I wrong to think the Big Egg was Draggy ad you just put it in the "device" at the bottom of Fort Dragonia?

    I wanted to get Draggy this playthrough... You don't have to tell me how to get him exactly - I like figuring things out myself - but maybe I just have to wait to do this or something?

  7. #37
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Well, I mean, the Chrono-verse is pretty eclectic. The first game had a robot, a princess, a cavewoman, some village kids, a frog-man and an ancient wizard.

    I'm not saying I like them but how does FunGuy or NeoFio not fit in with that?

    Poshul though, smurf Poshul.
    I'd probably point out that half those characters are from different time periods that the party willfully or sometimes not so willfully ripped from their worlds to join them on their adventure. The point is that most of them only stand out in other time periods but their own, whereas Cross is crawling with things from the whole fantasy/sci-fi spectrum within a small country.

    Anyway, I just got to Fort Dragonia. You must get most of the characters in the second half of the game. Razzly died fighting the Hiho Tank and I spent literal hours on that boss fight so I'm not redoing it. Those stat gains are gone forever and I had no real interest in her being an endgame party member anyway. But my point is, I have:
    Serge, Kid, NeoFio, Guile, Luccia, Mojo,Skelly, Leena, Poshul, Greco, Razzly

    That makes 11 when I know this game has a cast of 40-something. You must get most of the cast in the second half. I know I remember very distinctly a hilarious moment when everyone from the "Viper Manor Crew" joins up. You know how each time somebody joins there's the victory music and a witty character-specific line? I remember how the victory music just went crazy and wouldn't stop when Viper, the Dragoons and Riddel all join up.At least I think they all joined at the same time...
    Yeah, several characters can only be obtained once you're Lynx, like Irenes who is needed for the Marbule Quest. They pretty much won't listen to a kid, and if you've been exploring the towns thoroughly, you've met a good chunk of them as most of the named NPCs/characters with portraits, are obtainable as party members except for the bad guys and Dario. I think there are some characters who will only join after you obtain the Chrono Cross as well.

    Also, while all characters, even those who haven't joined yet get stat upgrades from obtaining a Star Level, the mini-upgrades for the few battles afterwards only affect your active party, so in order to keep characters viable, you should switch out people after a major battle that grants a star so everyone can get a minor stat boost.

    I ignored the characters I didn't find interesting so I forgot a lot about pretty much everyone. There are a ton of Black Innates in this first half though between Guile, Mojo, Luccia and Skelly. Almost no Yellows though except Poshul and it's smurfin' Poshul so they don't even really count.

    They probably gave a huge cast because they have 6 Elements to work with and want to make sure you find somebody you like who represents each of them. But that still probably would make a cast of...18 maybe? 3 characters per Element seems fair.
    Norris is the best Yellow Option in the midpoint of the game. Though I think some of the Viper Manor crew have a few good options as well. There are a lot of Black Innate in the first half, but none I would consider as powerful as Guile, Lynx or even Harle. Even then, I always forget about Luccia because I tend to recruit her towards the end.

    As for why there is a large cast, this is likely just Kato's taste. Pre-production material from Chrono Trigger showed that he originally wanted something like nine to eleven playable characters, all of whom were radically weird things with the proto-Crono and Lucca, being the only humans. Frog was an actual monster, Magus was an elf, Marle was a fairy, Ayla was more like a Tarzan expy, there was a dwarf and another character. Eventually Sakaguchi and Hori went through and merged some character concepts together and radically altered some others until we got the Chrono Team we know. So Kato imagined Trigger having a more fanciful world than we got, and he went for it with Cross and Radical Dreamers. This is one of the arguments the Cross haters use as to why Cross has so many "Take That!" potshots to Trigger within the plot.
    Personally, I think when he had a chance to control the franchise, he simply chose to stick to his own personal tastes on what the series should be like, which is why we got the massive cast.


    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    So was I wrong to think the Big Egg was Draggy ad you just put it in the "device" at the bottom of Fort Dragonia?

    I wanted to get Draggy this playthrough... You don't have to tell me how to get him exactly - I like figuring things out myself - but maybe I just have to wait to do this or something?
    You did everything right, you're just not in the right "time". You can still get him though. Generally, the more "story-centric" characters are the only ones that can be permanently missed. Hence why it takes at least three playthroughs to obtain a file with everyone on it.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Well, I mean, the Chrono-verse is pretty eclectic. The first game had a robot, a princess, a cavewoman, some village kids, a frog-man and an ancient wizard.

    I'm not saying I like them but how does FunGuy or NeoFio not fit in with that?

    Poshul though, smurf Poshul.
    I'd probably point out that half those characters are from different time periods that the party willfully or sometimes not so willfully ripped from their worlds to join them on their adventure. The point is that most of them only stand out in other time periods but their own, whereas Cross is crawling with things from the whole fantasy/sci-fi spectrum within a small country.
    Well a lot of people are from this "Zenan Mainland" which I assumed was outside of El Nido. I am unsure of how this works with later revelations about El Nido but oh well. Norris is from Porre and so-on.



    Yeah, several characters can only be obtained once you're Lynx, like Irenes who is needed for the Marbule Quest. They pretty much won't listen to a kid, and if you've been exploring the towns thoroughly, you've met a good chunk of them as most of the named NPCs/characters with portraits, are obtainable as party members except for the bad guys and Dario. I think there are some characters who will only join after you obtain the Chrono Cross as well.

    Also, while all characters, even those who haven't joined yet get stat upgrades from obtaining a Star Level, the mini-upgrades for the few battles afterwards only affect your active party, so in order to keep characters viable, you should switch out people after a major battle that grants a star so everyone can get a minor stat boost.
    And speaking of Norris, he didn't have a portrait! He was just "Dishwasher" who got stuck in Luccia's trap and then protested he wasn't snooping. I never saw that my first playthrough so witht he benefit of hindsight it's extra amusing.

    Also Lisa, the shop owner in Termina has a portrait, and even ends up with Serge in an ending. Yet not playable.

    But, yeah, you're right for the most part. I never thought about it in terms of tehm not wanting to listen to a kid, though. That's interesting. There is a much better story here than the game presents and I think CC is one of those works that benefits a lot from fanfic writers expanding what we were given and helping CC to live up to its potential. A lot of these character and events are very interesting and just needed a bit more fleshing out.

    Norris is the best Yellow Option in the midpoint of the game. Though I think some of the Viper Manor crew have a few good options as well. There are a lot of Black Innate in the first half, but none I would consider as powerful as Guile, Lynx or even Harle. Even then, I always forget about Luccia because I tend to recruit her towards the end.

    As for why there is a large cast, this is likely just Kato's taste. Pre-production material from Chrono Trigger showed that he originally wanted something like nine to eleven playable characters, all of whom were radically weird things with the proto-Crono and Lucca, being the only humans. Frog was an actual monster, Magus was an elf, Marle was a fairy, Ayla was more like a Tarzan expy, there was a dwarf and another character. Eventually Sakaguchi and Hori went through and merged some character concepts together and radically altered some others until we got the Chrono Team we know. So Kato imagined Trigger having a more fanciful world than we got, and he went for it with Cross and Radical Dreamers. This is one of the arguments the Cross haters use as to why Cross has so many "Take That!" potshots to Trigger within the plot.
    Lucca died in both CC and Xenogears so maybe they're onto something....

    But that's all pretty interesting.I had no idea about those original ideas.


    You did everything right, you're just not in the right "time". You can still get him though. Generally, the more "story-centric" characters are the only ones that can be permanently missed. Hence why it takes at least three playthroughs to obtain a file with everyone on it.
    Sweet, thanks.

    And it's good to know Norris is Yellow. I used him a lot for a while in my first run but Cross is such an easy game you don't really need to monitor Innates. It helps but it was hardly essential.

    It's VERY important in this version. Exploiting weaknesses is pretty much essential and having your own weaknesses exploited is why Razzly died against the Hiho Tank and I'm never using her again. That fight took me hours, I ain't doing it ever again.

    Also, I guess the scene with Kid and Serge camping where Kid talks about herself only happens in the timeline where you leave her to die. Otherwise, Razzly's subplot takes over when you leave Fairy Village. That is really weird. It's a pretty important scene too and the first time you hear her theme song.

  9. #39
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post

    I'd probably point out that half those characters are from different time periods that the party willfully or sometimes not so willfully ripped from their worlds to join them on their adventure. The point is that most of them only stand out in other time periods but their own, whereas Cross is crawling with things from the whole fantasy/sci-fi spectrum within a small country.
    Well a lot of people are from this "Zenan Mainland" which I assumed was outside of El Nido. I am unsure of how this works with later revelations about El Nido but oh well. Norris is from Porre and so-on.[/quote]

    It still doesn't add up when you remember that Zenan Mainland, which is basically Guardia and Porre, were not filled with Lucha Wrestlers, Fungus people, talking dogs, or the fair folk. It was pretty homogeneous, and half the unique creatures in Cross have no counterpart in Trigger like Dragons and Dwarves. Cross is surprisingly more fantasy and whimsical with it's ethnic groups than Trigger was.


    And speaking of Norris, he didn't have a portrait! He was just "Dishwasher" who got stuck in Luccia's trap and then protested he wasn't snooping. I never saw that my first playthrough so witht he benefit of hindsight it's extra amusing.

    Also Lisa, the shop owner in Termina has a portrait, and even ends up with Serge in an ending. Yet not playable.

    But, yeah, you're right for the most part. I never thought about it in terms of them not wanting to listen to a kid, though. That's interesting. There is a much better story here than the game presents and I think CC is one of those works that benefits a lot from fanfic writers expanding what we were given and helping CC to live up to its potential. A lot of these character and events are very interesting and just needed a bit more fleshing out.
    There is a lot more thought put into the plot and logic of the Dimension hopping than Trigger had, but again, Trigger was an adventure story where logic is only as good as what makes the events exciting. Cross is said to be a "fix-it-fic" as Kato was trying to resolve a bunch of the time paradox issues Trigger accidentally created due to the writers failing to iron out all the time travel rules from the beginning. The fact he merged this with a tale about the very ethics of time travel is actually a testament to his skills.

    I think the one aspect about the massive cast that works in it's favor is actually how well they are used to reinforce the ideas of how much events can change by a few simple choices. Even getting several of the characters Level 7 Techs actually require you make certain choices at the beginning of the game.

    Lucca died in both CC and Xenogears so maybe they're onto something....

    But that's all pretty interesting.I had no idea about those original ideas.
    I still stand by my head canon that Lucca either accidentally died in Gears or has more likely been removed from the Cross timeline but still exists in an alternate timeline with the rest of the Trigger cast. Simply because nothing short of Time Devourer is really on par with some of the enemies the Trigger cast dealt with in their own game, so I still feel it's very unlikely the cast is "dead" but simply been removed out of the way so as not to interfere. Again, this is largely why I wouldn't mind Kato coming back to pen a new Trigger game. The fact the new DS ending implies that both the cast is well aware of Schala's fate and that they cannot do anything to stop it, as well as Magus' ending heavily implying the Guile=Magus fan theory is still possibly canon tells me Kato has some interesting ideas left for the franchise.

    Sweet, thanks.

    And it's good to know Norris is Yellow. I used him a lot for a while in my first run but Cross is such an easy game you don't really need to monitor Innates. It helps but it was hardly essential.

    It's VERY important in this version. Exploiting weaknesses is pretty much essential and having your own weaknesses exploited is why Razzly died against the Hiho Tank and I'm never using her again. That fight took me hours, I ain't doing it ever again.

    Also, I guess the scene with Kid and Serge camping where Kid talks about herself only happens in the timeline where you leave her to die. Otherwise, Razzly's subplot takes over when you leave Fairy Village. That is really weird. It's a pretty important scene too and the first time you hear her theme song.
    It's pretty surprising what content you'll miss based on the path you take. I think Cross is still one of the best games in terms of "choice" in RPGs that I've played.

  10. #40

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    Hey man, are you saying ANYTHING in Cross, including the planet destroying alien monster, is on the level of a fisherman who inexplicably has Holy powers?!

    I am already dreading facing Miguel once again.... At least this time I knowt he power of Diminish. I was pretty much ignoring it my first run because it weakened everyone and you don't want to use something that weakens yourself, ya know? But it ended up being pretty much essential, even in teh main game, let alone the mod I'm playing.

    But I had forgotten so much plot and stuff during my first run, like the fact Miguel is Leena's father. I still don't think it's come up yet even though I've been talking to everyone as often as I can. Also you can't bring Leena for that fight because you're stuck in the Home universe as far as I can recall. Missed opportunity on the games part but oh well.

    But yeah, I know a lot of people get mad that the random shmuck villain of CT ended up gathering an army and killed our heroes. But Lynx at least was the one who killed Lucca so that's not too shabby? FATE is supposed to be pretty badass.

  11. #41
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Hey man, are you saying ANYTHING in Cross, including the planet destroying alien monster, is on the level of a fisherman who inexplicably has Holy powers?!

    I am already dreading facing Miguel once again.... At least this time I know the power of Diminish. I was pretty much ignoring it my first run because it weakened everyone and you don't want to use something that weakens yourself, ya know? But it ended up being pretty much essential, even in teh main game, let alone the mod I'm playing.

    But I had forgotten so much plot and stuff during my first run, like the fact Miguel is Leena's father. I still don't think it's come up yet even though I've been talking to everyone as often as I can. Also you can't bring Leena for that fight because you're stuck in the Home universe as far as I can recall. Missed opportunity on the games part but oh well.
    There is a popular fan theory that Miguel is actually Crono in disguise, which would explain why he has holy powers and is a total badass despite being just a simple fisherman.

    But yeah, I know a lot of people get mad that the random shmuck villain of CT ended up gathering an army and killed our heroes. But Lynx at least was the one who killed Lucca so that's not too shabby? FATE is supposed to be pretty badass.
    My only issue with Lynx offing Lucca is that A) Lynx shows no real ability within the game to being any stronger than some of the other characters in the world until he reunites with his physical core in Chronopolis, meaning that I can't imagine Lynx would be strong enough to handle Lucca, Harle is a similar situation where she's only a fragment of a greater power but showcases not being all that stronger than Serge and the regular folks of the game. B) FATE is stated to be the Chronopolis timelines version of the Mother Frame from Robo's bad future timeline, so we've established Lucca has already beaten this opponent. C) The whole point of going after Lucca in the first place was to get her help to bypass the Arbiter Lock and Prometheus Circuit. Why would an intelligent A.I. off one of the possible solutions to it's problem, especially when you consider how utterly convoluted the main plan they had to fall back on ended up being.

    Granted, I can see Lynx and Harle using the orphanage kids as hostages to make Lucca comply to go with them, but she is also just as likely to be smart and resourceful enough to disappear once that threat is over and remain "gone" until the situation was clear.

    My pet theory is that a third party: either FATE, Balthazar, the Time Devourer controlled Dragon God, or even and unknown fourth party; created a situation to get Crono and Company out of the main time stream as a means to keep them from interfering with their plans. If the party is jumping back and forth in another time stream causing havoc, they can't be causing issues in this particular time line. My point is that there are too many variables and fridge elements to say one way or the other that the CT cast got offed offscreen, especially considering how resourceful and stubborn they were in their first game.

  12. #42
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    NeoFio, Pip, Starky, Poshul, and Mojo all kinda bug me. Mostly, I wish Mojo actually had hands, I wonder how Poshul is the only talking dog in the world, I can't stand the name NeoFio, and Starky... i just think his design could be better. Pip. Pip, I just hate.

    Deadpool:
    As a mercenary, my first loyalty is to my hand. My right hand to be precise. Don't tell lefty, he gets jealous.
    My pal, Dexter, and I have had a longstanding on-and-off romance. I've proposed to her multiple times but she always says she's still young and wants to explore her sexuality while men are still interested. Well, men and women. She strokes both ways. That's a double entendre.

  13. #43

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    Yeah I think you told me about that Miguel = Chrono theory back when I first played C. Of course, I don't recall Chrono having a Holy Dragon Sword. And Serge actually has Luminare. Hm.

    But speaking of Miguel, I am about to enter the Dead Sea. Wish me luck.

    I went over to Nikki's ship as cats to see him talking to Irenes, spied on Fargo as cats to see him looking at Zelbess' mirror, I talked to Nikki before leaving the Zelbess... That is everything to make sure I can finish the sidequest, right? Now I just proceed with the plot?

    Also I'm really wondering if i want to use Sprigg. She has like one good monster right now. Does she learn Dopplegangers from being in the party or is it just anyone you fight and defeat?

    I also have Draggy, yay! He's so adorable. He succeeds where Poshul failed. Everyone loves him, for starters.

    EDIT:

    I never really stopped to think about it before but Funguy's and Van's reason for joining the party is because our heroes are after the Frozen Flame. Only...they're not? I'm not even sure what Lynx-Serge's motives are right now. He was told to head to the Sea of Eden so maybe that's his goal? Or is it to get back to Another World? There's also trying to figure out what happened to Viper, the Dragoons, etc..

    But searching fro the Frozen Flame? Not really a goal at present.

    EDIT 2:

    I went to recruit Starrky but I want to trap Ultra Nova and I don't have a trap for it yet so I guess he'll have to wait.. And Miguel has Holy Light too, right which you can also trap. Sadly, even if they were purchasable in the regular game, they aren't here. I just have to hope I stumble upon one of them.
    Last edited by Forsaken Lover; 03-12-2018 at 01:02 AM.

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