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Thread: Let's Talk About Why Cloud Is The Best Main Character

  1. #16

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    Squall's real issues of being forced to forget by magic demons ins his head while attending Mercenary High.

    And then it's all fixed when he finds a girl who really wants to jump his bones and she goes into a coma because the future witch possessed her.

    The most realistic character in FFVIII was Rinoa and Squall's existence sabotaged her character by relegating her to love interest/damsel in distress who gets no character development of her own.

  2. #17
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Cloud is your typical middle schooler who simply wants to find his place in society, shoots for the moon and fails because he's just average and not special, well until Jenova and Hojo come along at least.
    What the hell kind of middle school did you go to where that's typical?
    I'm simply talking about how middle school and by extension high school, is all about creating ones self image and trying to find our place in society (yes I've been playing too much P5, and yes it's probably affecting my thinking) which frankly corresponds with Cloud's mentality before leaving Nibelheim. I'm not making a value judgement, I'm simply stating that I couldn't relate to it. Cloud yearns to be accepted and feel useful to society and others, which is a generally typical and almost universal process most people go through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Squall's real issues of being forced to forget by magic demons ins his head while attending Mercenary High.

    And then it's all fixed when he finds a girl who really wants to jump his bones and she goes into a coma because the future witch possessed her.

    The most realistic character in FFVIII was Rinoa and Squall's existence sabotaged her character by relegating her to love interest/damsel in distress who gets no character development of her own.
    Squall's memory loss really has nothing to do with his actual character growth, I mean I feel we can all agree the amnesia twist was just a really asinine way to make the battle with Edea more emotional and powerful without actually putting any real effort into it. Beyond that, Squall still remembers Ellone faintly, enough to even still recognize her when he sees her in the present. It's not like Squall remembers the orphanage and suddenly breaks out of his shell and becomes best buds with the party, because he remembers all of them and his childhood was magically super awesome or something. I mean he was a loner even back then if the flashbacks are anything to go by. About the only person he actually established any kind of connection with was Seifer, and that's mostly some Fie Yay undertones. Hell, Squall was the one to convince the others to fight Edea despite them all now remembering she was a mother figure to all of them, so this wasn't a Niagra Falls Frankie Angel moment, he was still on board to get the mission done. He only softens up later after he gets some better character development.

    As for Rinoa, she basically just becomes the first person who sees Squalls jerkass facade for what it is and basically doesn't allow it to dissuade her from getting to know the real him. Which is frankly what Squall needed, someone who wouldn't back off when Squall went into total defensive jerk mode. So I'll have to disagree that she was "ruined" for doing her role and frankly her story wasn't original to begin with. Daughters of important, but bad people is a pretty overused cliche if you ask me. The damsel in distress nonsense is certainly a strike against her though.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Example View Post

    I get what you're saying, but there is still a difference between avoiding personal attachments with no basis and outright being an unlikable douche who only responds with "...whatever" when directly spoken to. Squall being an emotionally unstable shy kid with no social skills does not excuse the way he kept telling Quistis to piss off or just outright ignoring her every time she looked to him for advice and/or emotional support. Especially since he's supposed to be the team leader he should at the very least know how to inspire faith and boost the morale of his comrades even without being close friends with them. I won't even get into how Squall is supposed to remember having parents or a sister in the first place despite suffering from amnesia. And last time I checked, Zell was the only orphan who was adopted and whose adoptive parents you actually see, but I could be wrong on that so feel free to correct me. And maybe it's just me, but I don't see that much of a difference between a guy who tries to be an adult but fails miserably due to his insecurities and a guy who tries to be someone else but fails miserably due to his insecurities.
    Honestly, I actually really like Squall's jerkass facade, and understanding how it's a defense mechanism still follows logical consistency psychologically speaking. Now whether you like that persona is completely subjective, and I feel we'll have to agree to disagree on that front since I prefer more misanthropic (again, I would point out that Squall and I are not so different personality-wise) characters over some paragon of virtue,

    As for the amnesia stuff, it was shown that strong memories tend to fade last. As for the others being adopted, Zell is the only one shown, but I remember Quistis mentioning that she was taken in but didn't like her parents so she enrolled into Balamb when she was ten. Irvine in passing was mentioned to be adopted but nothing else about is ever brought up and Selphie is unknown. We know that Squall and Seifer were the last two of Edea's orphans who simply transferred to Balamb Garden when it was created.

    As for their being no difference, there is. Squall doesn't want to form attachments because he doesn't want to be hurt by losing people he cars about, so he purposely pushed people away so he can't form such bonds. Cloud wants to be acknowledged by others and the Jenova cells allow him to imprint the best qualities of Zack and Sephiroth to create the ideal version of himself. He's afraid no one will like him because he has a poor self-image of himself. Squall comes across as a child who is emotionally stunted due to traumatic abandonment issues. Cloud is your typical middle schooler who simply wants to find his place in society, shoots for the moon and fails because he's just average and not special, well until Jenova and Hojo come along at least. So they're actually on a opposite emotional spectrum, Cloud wants to form bonds , Squall doesn't. The difference for me is that Squall is actually a fairly accurate psychological study, whereas Cloud's issues stem far more from fictional issues and the game doesn't really bother addressing his actual insecurities when they finally come to light. Again, I appreciate the idea, but not the execution, whereas Squall still intrigues me because his story is a real character study and I find his circumstances to be more relatable.
    So it just comes down to personal preference, more than anything else really. I just couldn't find Squall's motivation and backstory good enough to relate to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Squall's real issues of being forced to forget by magic demons ins his head while attending Mercenary High.

    And then it's all fixed when he finds a girl who really wants to jump his bones and she goes into a coma because the future witch possessed her.

    The most realistic character in FFVIII was Rinoa and Squall's existence sabotaged her character by relegating her to love interest/damsel in distress who gets no character development of her own.
    Um no, she really wasn't. Pretty much every other character in the game was more believable than her.

  4. #19

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    Rinoa's character is that her mom died and this caused a rift between her and her father, who was probably never the most affectionate guy anyway. Her father is mere interested in securing the safety of his family but Rinoa wants to help everyone.

    These two never heal the friction between them because Squall is a nice hard cock that solves all of Rinoa's problems.

    Then she becomes a Sorceress and is justifiably terrified of what will become of her. But this isn't allowed to be her moment, it's Squall's. Squall is the big strong man who has to keep her safe from...uh....

    She's not the most amazing character but what does Rinoa have to compete with? Womanizer? Hot Dogs? BLOW EVERYTHING UP?

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Rinoa's character is that her mom died and this caused a rift between her and her father, who was probably never the most affectionate guy anyway. Her father is mere interested in securing the safety of his family but Rinoa wants to help everyone.

    These two never heal the friction between them because Squall is a nice hard cock that solves all of Rinoa's problems.

    Then she becomes a Sorceress and is justifiably terrified of what will become of her. But this isn't allowed to be her moment, it's Squall's. Squall is the big strong man who has to keep her safe from...uh....

    She's not the most amazing character but what does Rinoa have to compete with? Womanizer? Hot Dogs? BLOW EVERYTHING UP?
    I'm talking more about the way she lampreys herself onto Squall simply for no other reason than the plot needing her to. It's not like how Aerith was interested in Cloud because he reminded her of her ex-boyfriend, or how Tidus and Yuna were infatuated and had great chemistry together, Squall treated her horribly like he does everyone else yet she kept going after him despite having absolutely nothing in common. I'm no expert on the mind of teenage girls but I doubt they would put up with a relationship like that for very long. To make it even worse, the rest of your party constantly tries forcing you two together, even during the most inappropriate of times, which only highlights how little chemistry there is between them.

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