Mafia XXXII - BSG Mafia Game Thread - Day Four: Blood and Chrome (Town Victory)

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

Athena is the one who did that not Dee.

You're right. I actually got it mixed up with another post Dee made. Post #60, Dee seems to hint that she's open to the idea of there being multi-mafia teams.

I still think this is worth some scrutiny, because at this point in the game there was no real reason to believe that there were multiple killing roles in the game. It was Day 1 after all. I was not grouping people with the intent of suggesting that there were mafia pairs, but three different players seemed to believe I was. Two of those players have been revealed as mafia. If this theory holds any water, it's possible that either Dee or another mafia member picked up on this. That could offer an explanation for how mafia members were killed on two consecutive nights.

It's worth noting that both D'Anna and Athena, who commented on the idea of multiple mafias, ended up actually being mafia members.

Of course, it's totally reasonable to suggest that there's either a Vigilante or a Serial Killer in the game as well. Unfortunately I don't have any information.

[[M] Gaius]

Helo still hasn’t responded yet and I won't be on for end of day tomorrow due to work, so I'm just going to get this in now.

##Vote: Roslin

This should tie us both at 3:3 meaning either of us still need two more votes before we hit majority, so I'm not too worried about that for the moment. I'd still advise against letting either of us hit majority before Helo shows up though. If Helo doesn't show up this forces Gaius to act as tiebreaker, as he's the only other person to not have voted. I do think forcing everyone to vote is good, as regardless of the lynch outcome it helps you get a better read on them than if they had just stayed AWOL. It's why we're all having a hard time getting any sort of red on Helo. What I do find interesting is that Helo got a prod for inactivity when at the time he had actually posted more recently than Felix, who received no such prod. Could suggest Helo was a power role that didn't get their night action in. If he ends up getting replaced, it's something worth asking the sub about.

Well I have no problem with being a tiebreaker if I have to, though I'm not really reading either of you two as scum. If I had to decide right now I'd probably vote for you, Dee. I won't rush though, if possible I would like to wait as long as I can in case Helo still shows up, and in the meantime hopefully I can find the time to read the thread again to see if I missed anything.

[[M] Dee]

Well I have no problem with being a tiebreaker if I have to, though I'm not really reading either of you two as scum. If I had to decide right now I'd probably vote for you, Dee. I won't rush though, if possible I would like to wait as long as I can in case Helo still shows up, and in the meantime hopefully I can find the time to read the thread again to see if I missed anything.

Why don't you suspect me as scum? You were perfectly happy to vote me yesterday, and I ended up on the wrong side of a town lynch to boot. I honestly expected you to hard push me today. Unless you think Tigh and Roslin are scum together and planned this all, but you seem to town read Roslin as well. Who do you suspect if neither of us then?

[[M] Adama]

Cylon Commander, how much more time are you giving Helo before you throw your hands up and move on with a new person in their role? Thanks.

[[M] Mom – Host]

BEGIN/

AT WORK AT THE MOMENT. OF COURSE, AS A CYLON, I AM ALWAYS AT WORK, WATCHING YOU ALL CONSTANTLY (CONSTANTLY), BUT I WILL RETURN AT 20:30 TO DO A PROPER VOTE COUNT AND SEE WHERE WE ARE.

AT 19:00, IF THERE IS A MAJORITY, THE DAY HAS ENDED.

AT 19:00, IF THERE IS A TIE, THEN THE DAY WILL ONCE AGAIN GO TO OVERTIME. I AM SURE YOU ARE AWARE OF THE RULES REGARDING OVERTIME.

REGARDING THE WHEREABOUTS OF 'HELO', IF HE DOES NOT RESPOND BY 19:00 GMT THEN HE WILL BE REPLACED ONCE I RETURN FROM WORK. I ALREADY HAVE A PERSON IN MIND.

APOLOGIES FOR ANY DELAY CAUSED BY ME WORKING! I KNOW I HAVEN'T BEEN THE MOST ATTENTIVE HOST THIS GAME. I DO MY BEST!

END/

[[M] Gaius]

So I was writing up an answer to Dee's question and ended up just writing a whole list of my current reads. I'd appreciate if others shared their thoughts, and please, don't hesitate to point out flaws in my reasoning. We're getting to the point where I'd rather people did not let off-base reasoning go through unchecked.

Aaron
Conduct: Scum
Evidence: (Town)

I'm aware this is some of my bias but I really don't like people getting hung up on players like Roslin and Caprica. Being assertive without having much to back it up is not an indicator of Mafia, and in fact, that is an argument I've seen scum make time and time again. Also, the way he jumped into the Roslin lynch today just after Felix did felt like opportunism (or maybe even planned between them). I do give him some credit in evidence though, for publicly accusing Athena in late Day 1. Though if there actually are two scumteams that actually doesn't mean a whole lot.

Felix
Conduct: Scum (possibly just busy Town)
Evidence: Neutral

Seems to me like most of what Felix is doing is casting doubt on the information we have rather than trying to use it for reasoning, which would be a little unproductive as town. Also his attempt at implying that Roslin might have more information than she's letting on was the same thing Athena did Day 1. Also, this may be due to time issues, but he hasn't really involved himself in major discussions much. Still, I'm hesitant to accuse him over this, since I could also see him just being a Town too busy to play more actively.

Dee
Conduct: Town
Evidence: Scum

As I've previously stated, the way Dee defended herself - not by making a desperate move but by inviting discourse and encouraging actually thinking about how to proceed later on - felt pretty towny to me. Slightly offset by how deeply she focused on a mistake of mine, but eh, I can easily see a Town doing that. Though the argument that if she were innocent the Mafia shouldn't have had much of a reason to target Roslin is not one without its merits, either.

Adama
Conduct: Town
Evidence: Neutral

Adama's been playing a relatively normal Town game so far, as far as I'm concerned. Involved in the happenings, with some convictions, but willing to be proven wrong. I do know Roslin had some suspicions about him though I didn't quite follow, could you explain that a bit more Roslin, or is it already obsolete? As for evidence, not really anything swinging it either way really, except that since he's been more or less siding with Dee on Day 2, if she's scum he likely is her partner.

Roslin
Conduct: Town
Evidence: Town

Nothing so far in Roslin's conduct has actually made me think she's scum. She's been aggressively pulling people out of their comfort zones and getting as much information circling as possible. People like to say that's what Mafia do to confuse things, but really in my experience it's more often the other way round, especially in EoFF games so far - Mafia are usually not the ones aggressively leading the charge. And it's also just gonna get you investigated and tracked to hell and back and yet nobody has come forward with a Guilty on her. Also of course gets Town evidence by virtue of being protected by Tigh in a night with no Town deaths.

Tigh
Conduct: Neutral
Evidence: TOWN

Not much to say on conduct since he's been pretty quiet overall, on the first two days at least. Staying out of major confrontations reads more on the scummy side but the posts he did make read more towny, so it kinda cancels out. But in the end it's all offset by the fact that, well, he's the uncontested doc right now. Is there really anything else to say?

Helo
Conduct: N/A
Evidence: N/A

Speaks for itself, I think...

So yeah, that's what I got so far. My biggest suspicions are Aaron and Felix right now. If you guys are willing on giving up this stalemate and voting off one of these two I'd be delighted. If not, well, then I'll just have to resolve Overtime once we get to it.

##Vote: Aaron

[[M] Adama]

BEGIN/

AT WORK AT THE MOMENT. OF COURSE, AS A CYLON, I AM ALWAYS AT WORK, WATCHING YOU ALL CONSTANTLY (CONSTANTLY), BUT I WILL RETURN AT 20:30 TO DO A PROPER VOTE COUNT AND SEE WHERE WE ARE.

AT 19:00, IF THERE IS A MAJORITY, THE DAY HAS ENDED.

AT 19:00, IF THERE IS A TIE, THEN THE DAY WILL ONCE AGAIN GO TO OVERTIME. I AM SURE YOU ARE AWARE OF THE RULES REGARDING OVERTIME.

REGARDING THE WHEREABOUTS OF 'HELO', IF HE DOES NOT RESPOND BY 19:00 GMT THEN HE WILL BE REPLACED ONCE I RETURN FROM WORK. I ALREADY HAVE A PERSON IN MIND.

APOLOGIES FOR ANY DELAY CAUSED BY ME WORKING! I KNOW I HAVEN'T BEEN THE MOST ATTENTIVE HOST THIS GAME. I DO MY BEST!

END/

Assuming Helo's player will need to be replaced. Since we've waited this long, is your plan to go ahead move forward with the votes available, or will you let them post before this vote cycle?




As for Gaius, I can't say I'm surprised he didn't vote for one of the two current targets. Since you claim you have no reason not to doubt Tigh's Dr. claim, why bother with Aaron? He's unlikely to get more votes at this stage, and it leaves us in no better position.

I understand your thoughts on why you're suspicious of Feelix and Aaron, but that's all it is right now. Asking us to move our votes off of Dee when there is an uncontested Dr. claim can come across as fishy.

Either Dee is scum or Tigh is scum, but if the only reason you have for voting someone else is behavior versus claims, it's not as strong. It just looks fishy.

[[M] Aaron]

Seems a little strange to say that all Roslin is doing is pulling people out of their comfort zones when that's half the truth at best. If all she were doing was scum hunting I'd actually agree with you. But so far they've yet to have a good read on anyone. They were wrong about Apollo, they lied about Dee, and now we're expected to trust them when they almost got a person lynched based on their lies and haven't offered much in the way of solid reads otherwise?

And let's be clear about something, my vote for Roslin didn't follow Felix. I voted Roslin at the start of the day. With Tighs c claim I changed that vote largely out of frustration and to see if his claim holds up. Of course Dee managed to actually be the cooler head in suggesting we avoid any scum lockdown shenanigans so I unvoted. I'd say that was the right decision at the time. But the longer I thought about it the less convinced I was to give Roslin the benefit of the doubt. And since there was no immediate danger of a lockdown I voted for her. I've lead the charge against Roslin since start of day so saying I'm tagging along is laughable. I've been largely the only person pointing out every hole in her many stories and accusations, and even if Tigh is telling us the truth it doesn't prove they're not scum. So I'll base my vote on Roslins actions and take my chances thank you.

And your consistent insistence they haven't done anything sketchy is suspicious as hell to me. If you don't find lying suspicious, and misattributing quotes to Dee, possibly on purpose, suspicious at the very least then I have to wonder what game you're really playing here.

[[M] Gaius]

Well if nobody follows my lead till overtime of course I won't stick with my vote, since it wouldn't mean anything anymore at that point. If it comes to that I'll probably vote to kill Dee. Though then again, if Overtime is our first opportunity to get new Helo's thoughts maybe it's worth pushing that to its limit as well

[[M] Aaron]

And for the record, I fully recognize that if I'm wrong about Roslin I've basically tied a noose around my own neck but I'm fine with that. I'm willing to take a stand on my reads even if they are wrong in the end and accept the consequences.

Are you willing to do the same for one of the present pair of likely targets Gaius? I doubt it. But you don't have Caprica to hide behind anymore so it's not like you'll have a choice.

[[M] Kurt - Cool Dad]

I do know Roslin had some suspicions about him though I didn't quite follow, could you explain that a bit more Roslin, or is it already obsolete?

Sure. A lot of my suspicion is hinging on the two of them apparently collaborating together in Day 2. I was more suspicious of Dee than Adama, he just seemed to associate himself a bit too closely with her. I was also following along with Caprica's reasoning because I agreed with them.

Roslin
Conduct: Town
Evidence: Town

Nothing so far in Roslin's conduct has actually made me think she's scum. She's been aggressively pulling people out of their comfort zones and getting as much information circling as possible. People like to say that's what Mafia do to confuse things, but really in my experience it's more often the other way round, especially in EoFF games so far - Mafia are usually not the ones aggressively leading the charge. And it's also just gonna get you investigated and tracked to hell and back and yet nobody has come forward with a Guilty on her. Also of course gets Town evidence by virtue of being protected by Tigh in a night with no Town deaths.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. This definitely is what I'm trying to accomplish.

I actually happen to agree with a majority of your reads. This doesn't mean there's no possibility of you being scum from my POV, but we seem to be thinking along the same lines.

Seems a little strange to say that all Roslin is doing is pulling people out of their comfort zones when that's half the truth at best. If all she were doing was scum hunting I'd actually agree with you. But so far they've yet to have a good read on anyone. They were wrong about Apollo, they lied about Dee, and now we're expected to trust them when they almost got a person lynched based on their lies and haven't offered much in the way of solid reads otherwise?

What you're doing is pretty scummy, honestly.

I was wrong about Apollo, but I was right about Athena. You're also neglecting to mention that I had a strong townread of Caprica and worked alongside her, and she ended up flipping town on Day 2. I have been proven to be correct about 2/3 of my "final" reads so far.

You also keep suggesting I "lied" about Dee, when I keep telling you I "bluffed" a result on her. You're trying to throw shade and misconstrue my intent, and that's super not cool.

At this point it honestly seems like you're trying desperately to steer the vote away from Dee by throwing me under the bus.

I'm willing to team up with Gaius and abandon my idea of the Dee-Adama scumteam. Aaron just seems far too tunneled on me, to a degree where he's actively trying to mislead people about my gameplay in an effort to make me look scummy.

##Unvote
##Vote: Aaron

[[M] Aaron]

I'm not misconstruing anything. You lied about Dee and you keep trying to pretend you didn't. You can say you did it for whatever reason you like but you have no proof. You did know that if anyone investigated you last night you'd be found out for not having any info on her though so you tried to get ahead of it by saying you made it all up. Except we have nothing to prove you were just trying to get reads except your own word. And then you end up sticking with her as your vote until now anyway despite having nothing and, frankly, her not doing anything that seems that scummy to most yesterday? Am I really supposed to buy that she's definitely suspicious because you may have been targeted by scum even though there's nothing to prove you were targeted yet?

And you don't get to take credit for getting a scum read on Athena considering you really only ever went so far as to peg her being scum with Apollo and you were wrong about him.

When it comes right down to it Roslin, you have lied (dress it up however you like, it's still a lie with motivations we can't be sure of at all yet), you cast aspersions everywhere and have offered little to nothing to back up your votes for the first two days, you ignore possibilities that don't fit your narrative left and right, and you try and dismiss very real possibilities that are every bit as possible as the narrative you tell to stay alive. Now maybe you're just some overly aggressive townie with a poor grasp of logic that is desperately trying to save your own hide but I don't buy it. I don't have to throw you under any bus. You lay down in the street all on your own and waited for a bus to come with all of your inconsistencies and your blatant lie you've tried desperately to steer attention from.

You've made your own bed and are very unwilling to lie in it, but my points all stand for themselves and stand up to scrutiny. You've yet to prove me wrong on any of them. You just protest loudly without offering anything of real substance to prove me wrong.

[[M] Aaron]

bluff1
bləf/Submit
noun
1.
an attempt to deceive someone into believing that one can or will do something.
"the offer was denounced as a bluff"
synonyms: deception, front, subterfuge, pretense, posturing, sham, fake, deceit, feint, hoax, facade, fraud, charade; More
verb
1.
try to deceive someone as to one's abilities or intentions.
"he's been bluffing all along"
synonyms: pretend, sham, fake, feign, lie, hoax, pose, posture, masquerade, dissemble More

There's the definition of the word bluff and plenty of synonyms if you still want to pretend a bluff isn't a lie in the face of all logic and basic command of the english language.

[[M] Adama]

I'm willing to team up with Gaius and abandon my idea of the Dee-Adama scumteam. Aaron just seems far too tunneled on me, to a degree where he's actively trying to mislead people about my gameplay in an effort to make me look scummy.

##Unvote
##Vote: Aaron

Mentions a "Dee-Adama scum team" while you move your vote off of Dee, and mine remains there since Tigh's claim is still the most reasonable.

Amazing. What exactly is your reason not to trust Tigh at this point. I'm still not sure I follow, but maybe if you run it by me again it'll make sense.

[[M] Dee]

I thought day ended 2 hours ago but I guess I messed up on conversions. Im posting this on my lunch so i dont have time to answer replies to this. I don't read Aaron as scum as he seems town genuinely frustrated with roslin to me. Gaius's other scumread Felix seems more questionable to me as he has less reasons for his roslin vote. However I believe the me roslin tigh issue needs to be solved sooner rather than later. If I die for it so be it.