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Thread: WK's Top something or other... let's just say "games" and call it good list.

  1. #166
    Ghost of Christmas' past theundeadhero's Avatar
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    Which version of the game do the controls feel floaty on to you? I agree that they're off that way on the SNES' Super Mario All Stars, but they weren't in the original NES version. That was a porting issue.

    Bork Bork

  2. #167
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Sorry I haven't updated in a few days, I've been busy with work and another project, so I haven't had as much time as I would like to do this. I did start work on the next entry and then kind of came to a loss for words because it's a title most of you are familiar with.

    I'm almost halfway through the list, any surprises? Any games you're expecting in the future?

  3. #168
    Pinkasaurus Rex Cid's Knight Pumpkin's Avatar
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    Me and sharkson have started Catherine togefer

  4. #169
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin View Post
    Me and sharkson have started Catherine togefer
    I see that, are you enjoying it so far?

  5. #170
    Pinkasaurus Rex Cid's Knight Pumpkin's Avatar
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    I am! Although the moral dilemma over the cheating is a bit lost on me since (SPOILER)if anything I would call what Catherine is doing rape and not him being unfaithful. Not that he's helping with the gawking at her boobie pictures but still.

  6. #171
    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    My bold prediction is that Final Fantasy VI will be somewhere on your list.

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  7. #172
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin View Post
    I am! Although the moral dilemma over the cheating is a bit lost on me since (SPOILER)if anything I would call what Catherine is doing rape and not him being unfaithful. Not that he's helping with the gawking at her boobie pictures but still.
    To be fair, Vincent was pretty drunk and mad at Katherine, so it would be easy for him to see how he cheated on her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Murder View Post
    My bold prediction is that Final Fantasy VI will be somewhere on your list.
    You only bet on sure things, don't you?

  8. #173
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Sorry I haven't updated in a few days, I've been busy with work and another project, so I haven't had as much time as I would like to do this. I did start work on the next entry and then kind of came to a loss for words because it's a title most of you are familiar with.

    I'm almost halfway through the list, any surprises? Any games you're expecting in the future?
    What the crap man, nobody takes this long!
    Bow before the mighty Javoo!

  9. #174
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    53.
    Our third Final Fantasy game and the initial game that brought me to this forum actually. With the release of the Zodiac Age, this game is pretty fresh in the minds for some of you and I feel most of us are familiar with the ins and outs, so I'll be ignoring my usual "here's the plot, here's the gameplay" spiel and instead just focus on why this game deserves to be on this list. With that said, if you are just now playing this game for the first time, there are likely going to be spoilers so read at your own discretion.I find it a little bit funny to see that over a decade later from this game's release, I'm kind of back in the same state of mind about the franchise. My options for the last few years have been a game I actively dislike, it's awful sequel, an MMO I don't care about, and a few more lackluster titles as SE focuses on branching out and slapping FF onto anything that will sell like they were the video game equivalent of KISS. Yet I did have XII on the horizon, which as being developed by my favorite director at Square during the PS1 era, giving me both FFTactics and Vagrant story, and even surprising me with FFTA. So I was hyped when I learned he was working on XII, and so I shouldered on through FFMMO, skimpy outfit Charlie's Angels knockoff, and weird crossover titles. Yet, as we all know, XII began the franchise's new tradition of rocky development. Despite being announced before FFXI debuted, it was released four years later, which felt like a lifetime for a franchise who Golden Age had every entry releasing one to two years apart, with only the gap between VI and VII being the longest and that at least was notable with a console change and a transition from 2D to 3D graphics. The news coming of Matsuno not only leaving the project due to health reasons, but eventually leaving the company itself was also very concerning, and I still hope to one day learn a little bit more about that, cause never set well with me. The game was taken over by Ito (VI and CT) and Kawazu (FFII and SaGa) which I feel saved the project, but I'm still sad that we were denied Matsuno's full vision. In hindsight, I feel like XII really showed it's work. After seeing the results of the last three titles that had ballooned development times and then got painfully rushed out the door in the last year of it's development, I can honestly say that I feel XII showed not only why it was taking so long, but ultimately achieved what they wanted to do, whereas the rest either got shrug of god with silly lies or boggled down with focus group input. Recreating an MMO style world in terms of scale on PS2 hardware without the aid of the HUD peripheral that Sony dropped almost as quickly as they touted it, with little to no loading times is actually an engineering feat on scale with VII and VIII's technological improvements. I've always felt that the PS2 was a late bloomer, and my god if this game, Shadow of the Colossus, and MGS3 really sent that message to gamers. So we have our first non-MMO massive world FF and it happens to be Ivalice itself, a setting that had been slowly evolving in Matsuno's mind in the years since he created it as a flimsy expy of his Tactics Ogre universe, and I honestly couldn't think of a better setting to be the first scaled world. The level design of XII is a bit interesting because it's massive in scale to other FF worlds like Spira or Cocoon, but actually has some tighter design around it as well, which differentiates it from the usual copy/paste landscapes of Open World titles like XV. Frankly, I was in awe to all this and really saw the future of the genre with this game, but sadly SE backed down from the concept while other franchises thankfully saw the potential and ran with it. In a lot of ways, I feel like XII was the last FF to have a serious impact on the genre. Other series started to build their worlds bigger, more serious subjects started to enter the writing, and it felt like more designers began to really experiment with writing styles for their games.XII is not about Vaan, he's the player viewpoint character, but his story arc ends about a few hours after his introduction. The plot is really about Ashe, the first playable character you're actually introduced to in the opening. Yet it still surprises me that people confuse this concept. It's also different from the Tidus and Yuna dynamic because ultimately, Vaan's story is irrelevant to Ashe's and he comes to terms with what he needs to do to grow as a character fairly early in the plot, whereas Ashe struggles with her conflict for the rest of the game. Where Vaan is important is that he's relatable, the opening sections of Rabanastre wouldn't have been as impactful if you were playing as Ashe, in her resistance bunker, with all her bodyguards, talking about how bad Dalmasca has been since the imperial takeover. It is more impactful to play as an everyman who is both powerless to effect any real change but still wants to do so, to meet a character who can freely wander the streets and talk to normal people about what's going on and learn first hand about the social dynamics of the world than a character who storywise, is in no position to do so because they are too important for such trifling matters. So Vaan is not important as a character, but he's important for the player to see and understand the world in a way that none of the other characters can't translate into without awkward writing. Tidus fulfills a similar role in X but he's ultimately too foreign and his story still requires heavy exposition by side characters and party members to get both him and the player up to speed on the situations. Vaan is a more organic means of fulfilling this role. In terms of the narrative overall, I kind of appreciate the fact that XII is a more subdued and grounded experience. After years of half espers, dead dream dude's, schizophrenics due to alien loogies, and Time traveling witches; it was nice to have a story where everyone actually has straightforward problems that can still create complicated emotional issues for the party to deal with. Basch is probably the best example as he has not only been disgraced due to the frame up on him, but the one person he vowed to protect, hates him and it's only through the course of the story and the other characters resolving their own personal issues does he finally get his happy ending. You feel bad for this guy, and you don't even need to have some weird excuse to do so like him being some magic construct created for war, he's a guy whom the world has turned against and yet he soldiers on and does what he feels is right despite the fact the person he's trying to help hates him. It's powerful without being melodramatic or over the top in context. Fran's own journey falls Matsuno's tendency to bring in real world elements into his stories. Her journey parallels the struggles of native groups dealing with the expansion of more technologically advanced cultures; and the sense of betrayal the native group feels when their young abandoned their cultural roots to pursue that foreign influence. While I'm sure Matsuno drew upon these inspirations from the struggles of native tribes in the Americas and Africa, I can easily see it hitting a chord with Japanese who feel the same loss of identity from Western influences in the last hundred and fifty years. It's incredibly relevant story point that has no clear answer and may likely have a similar end result as the real world for the Viera which makes it both fascinating and tragic, while once again, not being in your face about it. This is why I love XII's story, it deals with complicated issues and interesting personal struggles without being so blatantly obvious about it. the player themselves have to read the subtext to understand and not simply be spoon fed the games themes and message. This is not to say the older games were never subtle about their own themes, but at the time of 2006, I felt SE had lost that insight as well as many other popular RPGs at the time. Even today, I still feel that SE has never quite grasped subtlity like they used to, but I blame this on the fact that the writers don't have enough faith in their own audience to get the message if it isn't spelled out to them and who can blame them? My own experience when I first came to this forum was dealing with people who seemed to miss the point of the writing, and I'm sure that was rather reflective of the whole fanbase, even I missed out on a several elements my first playthrough, but that's kind of what I like about this game is that it's something where you can still discover new meanings and minor points with each playthrough. It's not a high fructose soda you stuff in your face to get that instant gratification, it's like a wine that has to be drank slowly and every sip should savor in order to appreciate the subtle elements that make it exquisite. This extends to the gameplay which ultimately ruined A.I. companions for me because XII offered a level of control that felt meaningful and practical that ultimately challenged my views on how I play games. It taught me to relinquish control where I wanted to while also making me appreciate the control I still gave myself. The License Board was a powerful tool that certainly had some balancing issues, but could be fixed if I simply let go and didn't settle for the lowest hanging fruit on the tree. XII came out at a good time for me, cause my own experience with FFs gameplay had largely been waning thanks to always munchkining the mechanics, but around the time of XII, I finally started to just let go and just really experiment with what some of the battle systems had to offer, and I feel that FFXII, more than any other entry is a game that really works best with this more playful approach. When you decide to sit back and simply play for enjoyment and curiosity instead of "playing to win" I feel you can truly see how much depth the mechanics have to offer.Overall, I felt that XII was the breath of fresh air the franchise really needed and I'm a bit sad that everything that has come after it has lacked the depth, restraint, and grandeur this game offered us back in 2006. I am happy to see that people have started to come around to this game, and I hope the Zodiac Age helps introduce a whole new generation of fans to what I consider to be the last really great Final Fantasy game.


  10. #175
    Taking care of business Cid's Knight Bubba's Avatar
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    I couldn't read that as I'm yet to play FFXII but I'm glad it made an appearance on your list!

  11. #176
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    Yeah, it really took people w while to understand the beauty of this game but I'm glad it's finally getting some long overdue credit

  12. #177
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    Now there's an entry I can really get behind. Really good post too, makes it very clear why exactly it's here on the list.

    FFXII was also kind of an experiment ground for various random gameplay ideas it seems, some good, some terrible. I'll never understand how anyone could've looked at the original Zodiac Spear requirements and okayed them. The Zodiac rereleases iron out a lot of my pet peeves and make the game a lot more fun to play overall. Interesting to contrast the two versions from a design perspective.

    X-2 has XII beat when it comes to the playful gameplay approach though =P

  13. #178
    card mod ur face Rocket Edge's Avatar
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    Nice read. I remember at the time of FFXII's release getting fixated on words for example like magicite and nethicite and wondering why needlessly confuse people. I found it hard to follow in places.

    Now it's irrelevant. I'm currently playing through the Zodiac Age and I'm surprised at how much I really love playing through it.

  14. #179
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    52.
    Now for something completely different. I'm going to be honest with you. This game is here for pure nostalgia and because it's funny as hell, but I can objectively say that several games that have come before are better titles. Why this is here is largely due to the nostalgia of my father's bad parenting (I was about eight or nine when the version I played came out) and the fun memories of being over at his place playing this game and asking him a bunch of unfortunate questions that all parents dread to hear their kids ask. With that said, I do feel a bit guilty of placing this here after going through four solid titles. So I may end up dropping this a bit lower on the list in the end, and remind people that the list is transient at best until you reach the top ten. Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards is a remake of an old softcore porn game that largely scaled back the "porn" aspect and amped the humor like any good text adventure game. Considering it's unfortunate origins, Larry feels more like a raunchy 80s college comedy about a guy who wants to find true love, or at least get laid while trying. That or Johnny Bravo for adults. To say this game is considered politically incorrect in today's age is an understatement, but the game makes up for it for the delightful narration, quirky black comedy antics that befall the cosmic chew toy that Larry is, and how much this game often makes fun of itself for how utterly juvenile the whole premise is. Fun fact, Al Lowe, the creative genius behind Larry and remake got his start making compute edutainment games based on Disney titles. So yeah...As I said, Larry is basically the original forty year old virgin. He still thinks the Disco era is in full swing and Leisure Suits are a thing, he tells the ladies that he's looking for love after his old lady kicked him out of their place, but fails to mention that the "old lady" is his mom, and that this happened maybe two months ago. The game makes it abundantly clear that Larry is a loser and that his purpose in the game is kind of misguided. You're given eight hours to help Larry find his dream girl, otherwise, he'll kill himself. Dark I know, but considering the more fun ways to get him killed, chances are, you won't see this ending. You spend the majority of the game traveling a poorly veiled expy of Las Vegas looking for a girl to be Larry's true love and wooing them with words and gifts, though considering Larry has the worst pick up lines and this is an adventure game, it's mostly the second option. Most of these end disastrously for Larry. The girl at the club forces Larry into a sham marriage and then steals all of his stuff while leaving him tied naked to the hotel bed, the second girl ditches him for her real boyfriend, and you can only see the good ending by finding and romancing Eve, a doctor you meet at ritzy hotel. The real charm in the game is the old adventure game element of dialogue from looking at various items in the game, the text is hilarious and the narrator and cast will take every opportunity to poke fun at Larry. There's an amusing scene where Larry needs to pick up a "Lubber" to get with a prostitute involves answering a ton of questions, of which half of it doesn't really have anything to do with, and the convenience story clerk as well as all of his patrons making fun of you for how perverted you are.Going back to my statement about uncomfortable questions and Larry's amusing deaths, this is actually the game that taught me both what a condom and STD were. Because if you "do the deed" with the prostitute without protection, Larry contracts an STD and explodes, fanciful yes, but it gets the message across about "no glove, no love". You also get arrested if you don't remove it since apparently Larry always forgets to zip his pants up. My favorite death is flushing the toilet at Lefty's Bar, where it overflows and drowns you. When Larry dies and you press continue, the floor opens up and reassembles a new Larry for you by dropping him in a blender and sending the Larry Shake through a machine to make a new one. It's amusing and never really grew old for me. My other favorite part was that you had to answer a bunch of questions to even start the game, most of them designed to weed out young kids (or at least ones without negligent parents) from people of the "proper age" to play this. So a lot of questions are entertainment trivia questions about old actors and musicians, but some contain hilarious jokes mocking the development team. Hell just stating you're too young or old to be playing the game offers some really funny text from the game. It's a funny if quirky game that definitely falls into the "product of it's time" way of thinking. It actually did get a remake recently thanks to a kickstarter campaign which surprised the hell out of me, especially since the newer games (about Larry's even more pathetic nephew) are generally panned by everyone, including fans of the series. Yes, I did say series, the game spawned like eight sequels not including the ones about the nephew, and it contains my favorite joke in gaming. Al Lowe vowed to never make a Leisure Suit Larry 4 after 3, so the next game is actually labeled "5" and the plot revolves around a The Hangover style story where Larry has to remember what actually happened in the unmade 4. It's a quirky series indeed.


  15. #180
    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    Ahahahahahahaha.

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