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Thread: WK's Top something or other... let's just say "games" and call it good list.

  1. #376
    Slothstronaut Slothy's Avatar
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    Oh my god I know what's coming.

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    Pinkasaurus Rex Cid's Knight Pumpkin's Avatar
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    I love Suikoden V

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    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    I was starting to write a much longer reply, but I realized almost all non-WK posts (including mine) are fairly brief... except when I responded to your last Suikoden game on this list. I get a little passionate about this series.

    Suikoden V is a great game, and I get why people place it above S3. But I tend to like S3 a hair more due to a more engaging cast of main characters, and S5 is not enough more polished to compensate. But it does have one of the best traditional world maps; I'm not sure I can think of another game where the map just felt quite as big to explore.

  4. #379
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    12. So when I was reevaluating my thoughts on Ico, I remembered I had the HD edition on PS3 and I was having such a fun time going through the game I decided that a new playthrough of Shadow of the Colossus was in order. It never moved on my list, but it was still great to reaffirm for myself why I placed it so high. his is such a unique and interesting title, that despite some of it's flaws, just wins you over by the experience it gives you.Shadow of the Colossus is the story of a man named Wander who travels to the Forbidden Lands with his horse Agro and the corpse of the woman he loves. He travels to these lands to bargain with an ancient entity sealed there in order to bring his love back to life. The entity says its within it's power but will come at a high price of which Wander agrees. At this point Wander is tasked with slaying sixteen Colossi that wander the land in order to free the entity. Armed with a simple bow and a magic sword, Wander travels across the time stopped lands with Agro to hunt these great behemoths.In true Team Ico fashion, there isn't much left to say about the plot because it's pretty minimalist like Ico was. In fact, there isn't even a lot of evidence to say the girl you're trying to resurrect even returns Wanders feeling towards him. You can imagine him as a creepy stalker or heartbroken hero, it's up to you to decide. The gameplay itself follows this minimalist approach as the Forbidden Lands are a huge landscape to traverse, with several out of the way locations, that are filled with very little outside of the Sixteen Colossi. Yet I must commend the developers because in addition to the world being quite gorgeous to look at, this less is more approach does translate well as simply finding a gorgeous view or out of the way tree with fruit is pretty rewarding in itself. I appreciate the fact the game lets you explore as much as you want and doesn't necessarily feel obligated to bog you down with chores to do. Course the main event here are the Colossi themselves. They have often been described as sixteen boss battles but only a handful truly deserve that moniker whereas the majority of them are simply action platforming puzzles that resist your efforts to solve them. The Colossi exhibit different behaviors that range from aggressive, to curious, to indifference. These quirks create their own challenges and memorable elements for each of the Colossi and trying to find your way to each of their Glowing Glyphs to strike them down can bring with them their own amusing brain twisters. That's kind of what ultimately sets this game apart from other games. I mean MGS and Zelda have puzzle bosses as well, but most of them are fairly simple in practice with several tools at your disposal. SotC on the other hand gives you only the most basic tools and instructions to solve their riddles and it takes observing the landscape and the nature of the beasts themselves to figure it out. Before I played this game for myself, I was watching a friend go through it and he got to the Turtle boss in the Geyser fields. For the life of him, he couldn't figure out how to get on them until I suggested he lure it over to one of the geysers to see if it will knock him off balance. Sure enough, that was the first step to beating the beast and it was such an organic and well thought out puzzle that it has stayed with me for quite awhile. Another thing that has stuck with me about this game was a review I read where the reviewer mentioned they didn't finish the game. Not because it was hard, but because they felt too guilty about what they were doing. For anyone who has played the game will know, beating the Colossi does not give you some triumphant victory theme, instead you're greeted by more somber pieces depicting the death of an a ancient and sacred creature that will never be seen again. The black tentacles are also a dead giveaway, but I was pretty struck by the idea of a game that could move a person to feel that way. Like Ico before it, Shadow of the Colossi tells a tragic and moving story with little words and context but rather with feelings itself, which is something I feel games try to strive for, but mostly fail to do so well. Largely because they tell you what to feel whereas this title and Ico sort of bring it out of the player more naturally.I don't really know what else to say here, like Ico and Journey before it, this game is more an experience than a game, though the dev team could have made the controls a bit less clunky, so it's hard to really put into words what this game is about and why you should play it, other than that I feel the title embodies what gaming allows us to do. To explore a land, chase down a flying monster that requires a precise jump from your horse to reach and then a climatic struggle to slay the beast in order for the game to instill with you a deep sadness that makes the feat a hollow victory. Yeah, I just might leave it at that.

    Coming Up next: Genes exist to pass down our hopes and dreams for the future through our children. Living is a link to the future. That's how all life works. Loving each other, teaching each other... that's how we can change the world. I finally realized it. The true meaning of life...

  5. #380
    Taking care of business Cid's Knight Bubba's Avatar
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    Shadow of the Colossus has a comfortable place in my top five games of all time. I find my thoughts wandering to it occasionally in everyday life. It's probably left more of a mark than any game I've played.

  6. #381
    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    I admire SoTC for its uniqueness and how it conveys its emotion but it was just an average game for me.

    I'm going through my top 100 right now and I wonder if you had the same experience I am having, Wolfy. I found the top 30 or so surprisingly easy to rank. The next 50 were fairly easy to identify but I'm finding it very difficult and arbitrary to rank them. And now I have about 100 games I need widdle down into the final 20, which I'm finding almost impossible.

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  7. #382
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del Murder View Post
    I admire SoTC for its uniqueness and how it conveys its emotion but it was just an average game for me.

    I'm going through my top 100 right now and I wonder if you had the same experience I am having, Wolfy. I found the top 30 or so surprisingly easy to rank. The next 50 were fairly easy to identify but I'm finding it very difficult and arbitrary to rank them. And now I have about 100 games I need widdle down into the final 20, which I'm finding almost impossible.
    That's pretty much how it worked out for me, and once you start writing about your thoughts on them, the order will start shifting as well. The first twenty or so were pretty easy, as was the next thirty or so.

  8. #383
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    11.A game I'm sure most of you thought was going to be in my Top Ten, but just got squeaked out for a number of reasons, though it does regularly switch with number ten on my list. The biggest issue is simply that I just don't feel like the gameplay has aged quite as well as I had hoped. The level design combined with the simple enemy A.I. makes stealth pretty easy, I find the auto-aim to be more annoying than helpful, and jumping off from that point, battles that require actual non-first person view combat or setting traps are generally more annoying than fun. I love the cool gimmicks going on with Psycho Mantis, but it doesn't change the fact the fight is a total chore. So with the very few negatives out of the way, let's discuss why this game is so goddamn amazing. Set several years after Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Snake has retired from FOXHOUND and the military after suffering PTSD and still reeling from having to kill his only friend and his supposed father. Snake is captured by the U.S. Military and talked into doing one last mission for his country. A weapon disposal facility on Shadow Moses Island has been taken over by FOXHOUND itself. Hostages include the DARPA Chief, and the head of a weapons development firm ArmsTech. It doesn't take long for Snake to realize that the disposal facility was really just a front for several government Black Projects and Snake is once again dealing with a new model of Metal Gear. What follows is a personal story of Snake trying to overcome his past and realizing that no matter what he does, war is a part of his life. The plot twists and turns until Snake soon discovers that he may truly be on his own as his own allies have their own motives and secret agendas, not to mention Snake has to do battle with the most iconic and well loved group of villains in the series. There is also a strange Cybernetic Ninja that seems to be familiar with Snake...I feel what separates MGS1 from the rest of the series with only one or two exceptions is that if you peel off the more supernatural/Sci-Fi elements from the story like FOXHOUND and Metal Gear, the plot overall hits that nice sweet spot for spy thrillers where the whole scenario feels plausible. A government showing the world a face that wants peace, while secretly double downing on their weapon projects to eventually give them an edge over everyone else. Granted the plot was more impactful in the late 90s when the world was still leery about the changing of the global power structure, I think today, most people would find the premise of the plot a bit redundant since U.S. influence is still dominating largely because of our military might. Yet the game touches on larger issues about nuclear weapons in the modern age. From discussion of their devastating impact, to the rather slow and clumsy disarmament efforts, to the fact that despite a nuclear holocaust being averted the threat of a nuclear weapon being used has become more likely now that the technology has fallen into the hands of terrorist or rogue nations.I blame Neon Genesis Evangelion and a few other series at the time, but Japan had a weird fad in the late 90s concerning stories that delved into identity and existentialism. I think Vagrant Story might have been the last game to really delve into it but games like Silent Hill, Final Fantasy VII, and most of all Metal Gear Solid really explored this notion of who we are. MGS differs from the pack by blending the usual philosophical connotations of the subject by combining it with some science. Granted, it's a well known fact that Kojima's team didn't do their homework concerning how genes actually work but the concept still works in the greater intellectual discussion concerning nature vs. nurture. Is it out genes and parentage that make us who we are, or does our environment play more of factor? Will even knowing this truth set us free from the struggles of wanting to know who we are. The character of Naomi is haunted by these thoughts, and while Snake rarely says anything on the matter, his dialogue with several characters especially FOXHOUND plays into this larger theme as well. Snake sees himself as a broken ace and a victim of war, but secretly knows that war and fighting are not only the only things he enjoys, but the only things that give him meaning and this is something he will struggle with for most of the series but this game begins Snakes journey to find deeper meaning for himself and to not be bound by his past or heritage. To have a game that really tackled these complex themes and scenarios would have alone been enough to make this game stand out from it's peers at the time but MGS also pushed the gaming medium as well. I've already pushed forward the idea that MGS used MG2 as a template for most of the scenario and a few returning themes here and there, but MGS takes advantage of what 3D animation can do to finally allow Kojima and his team to create a game that almost feels like a film. While Kojima had played around with fourth wall breaking concepts in his previous titles, none have been quite as iconic or jaw dropping as some of the stuff he did in MGS1 with Psycho Mantis or bringing back the "find the solution on the back of the actual game box" puzzle which I had accidentally stumbled upon on my first playthrough. I didn't use a guide, I simply remembered the box had shown the codec number and felt I was "cheating" the game out of solving the puzzle when in actuality, I was just too simple to realize that was the solution. It's a combination of these elements that really show off how clever the design team was and instilled in a generation of gamers how gaming was finally leveling up to whole new era, and sadly I just don't feel like any generation afterwards has really thrown the gauntlet down like MGS and several other titles of the PS1 generation did. Despite the laughable polygon models and graphics, the PS1 original will always be the iconic MGS experience as I felt the dirty graphics and blue and green filters really added a visual style to it that later entries and the Gamecube remake just simply couldn't match up to. It added a grittiness to the world that is as iconic to it as cardboard boxes and Snake's headband. So despite the aging graphics, I still find the original the most aesthetically pleasing if that makes any sense. The soundtrack is also quite iconic and up until MGSV, was one of my favorite in the franchise. The Gaelic singing adds a sad eeriness to the setting and the rest of the music hits all the right marks to make this game feel like a film adaption of a Tom Clancy thriller. As much as I did enjoy MGS2, I feel like most of us would agree that MGS1 was a really tough act to follow. Another factor I will give this game is it's iconic cast. Cold-hearted killer Snake, the adorkable Otacon, Snake's reluctant former commander Campbell, sexy and mentally distraught Naomi, perky Mei Ling, green horn Meryl, hardboiled Natasha, and wise Miller. Not to mention FOXHOUND itself which set such a high standard for MGS villains that no entry has ever been able to match both their iconic characterizations and ingenious boss battles. I mean some of the most memorable moments of the game are the final moments with Psycho Mantis, Sniper Wolf, and Vulcan Raven. Even the Cyborg Ninja has been so iconic that Frank Jaeger's character has retroactively been retcon into always having a Ninja fetish and later games have ham-fisted the character archetype for the sake of the fans. Liquid, man Liquid was so popular even Kojima was surprised and kept getting more and more parts for the series despite being killed in his initial game. I feel it's safe to say the cast of this game hit it out of the ball park and has never been recreated as well since. Also Metal Gear Rex is easily the best Metal Gear in the franchise. It's design is the most iconic but I have to hand it to the game for making it feel like you're fighting a realistic robot as well as opposed to the physics defying "Minski Particle" variants that appear in every entry after it. It's amusing to play MGS1 and get a sense of trying to make Rex feel like he's a real thing you could see in the world, and then jump to MGSV it's Metal Gear feels like it was from Zone of the Enders. I don't know, it's hard to discuss this game because so many people have already analyzed the hell out of it. If video games had a teaching manual, a whole chapter could be dedicated to this game alone if not a whole book. If you have not played this classic, you owe it to yourself to do so. It might be as impressive as it was in 98, but I've seen people still blown away by it so what do I know. Anyone, check out the game that took a small one-note series and transformed in into a massive franchise that people still talk about today.


    Coming Up Next: Tis your birth and faith that wrong you... not I.

  9. #384
    Taking care of business Cid's Knight Bubba's Avatar
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    I always wonder where I'd place MGS on my list of top 100 games. It'd be top twenty for sure. It broke so much ground.

  10. #385
    SHAAAAAUN! Scotty_ffgamer's Avatar
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    MGS will always be one of my favorite games.

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    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    Ooh, the top 10 coming up! I can guess at least 2 games on it without thinking. Probably more if I reviewed your list and extrapolated.

    EDIT: A 10 second breeze through your list and I think I confidently know 2 others.

    EDIT2: Just figured out another one, unless you are throwing us a big curveball here.

    EDIT3: I now speculate another two. Basically I'm going on the fact that you like some particular series yet haven't even named their best entries yet. 7/10
    Last edited by Del Murder; 10-12-2017 at 10:45 PM.

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    disc jockey to your heart krissy's Avatar
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    blame yourself or the next game

  13. #388
    Ghost of Christmas' past theundeadhero's Avatar
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    http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread....=1#post3534827

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    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del Murder View Post
    Ooh, the top 10 coming up! I can guess at least 2 games on it without thinking. Probably more if I reviewed your list and extrapolated.

    EDIT: A 10 second breeze through your list and I think I confidently know 2 others.

    EDIT2: Just figured out another one, unless you are throwing us a big curveball here.

    EDIT3: I now speculate another two. Basically I'm going on the fact that you like some particular series yet haven't even named their best entries yet. 7/10
    A quick glance got me to 5 fairly confidently, with a possible 6th uncertain. I'm not sure I can get to 7, though I also know very little about WK's taste in non-JRPGs (and all but one of my 6 guesses are JRPGs).

    EDIT: Hah, just thought of two more guesses, though only guesses. As far as my 3 guesses though, I probably wouldn't have originally picked them for your top 10, and am mostly guessing them just because I'd otherwise be a little surprised they're not somewhere in your top 100.

  15. #390
    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    Only one of my 7 guesses is not a JRPG.

    EDIT: OK, I am up to 9/10, possibly 10/10.

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