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Thread: WK's Top something or other... let's just say "games" and call it good list.

  1. #391
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Del Murder View Post
    Ooh, the top 10 coming up! I can guess at least 2 games on it without thinking. Probably more if I reviewed your list and extrapolated.

    EDIT: A 10 second breeze through your list and I think I confidently know 2 others.

    EDIT2: Just figured out another one, unless you are throwing us a big curveball here.

    EDIT3: I now speculate another two. Basically I'm going on the fact that you like some particular series yet haven't even named their best entries yet. 7/10
    A quick glance got me to 5 fairly confidently, with a possible 6th uncertain. I'm not sure I can get to 7, though I also know very little about WK's taste in non-JRPGs (and all but one of my 6 guesses are JRPGs).

    EDIT: Hah, just thought of two more guesses, though only guesses. As far as my 3 guesses though, I probably wouldn't have originally picked them for your top 10, and am mostly guessing them just because I'd otherwise be a little surprised they're not somewhere in your top 100.
    Quote Originally Posted by Del Murder View Post
    Only one of my 7 guesses is not a JRPG.

    EDIT: OK, I am up to 9/10, possibly 10/10.
    You two will have to start a betting pool to see if you guessed them. I feel my top ten is pretty easy to guess if you know what I've listed as some of my favorite games before. I think only two of them might be hard to figure out as one of them is a game I talk about a lot but doesn't get a whole lot of attention on the forum and the other one I've only talked about a handful of times.

    I will say right now that I did cheat with one of them but it will hopefully make sense when I get to that entry.

    Only three of my entries are not JRPGs and that depends on how you feel about the third entry.

    The oldest entry in the top ten will be turning thirty next year, the youngest entry is about eleven years old now. Only four entries were not made in the nineties.

    The list is comprised of games made by only five companies. Two of which, made six of the listed games. Two of the companies only made one and the rest were made by the last.

  2. #392
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    I'll put my guesses under spoiler tags. Purely for bragging rights, others should post their guesses before looking at anyone else's.

    (SPOILER)

    These I'm pretty confident about being on the list:

    FFVI
    FFT
    Suikoden II
    Chrono Trigger
    Xenogears

    These I think are pretty likely:

    MGS 3
    Zelda: Link to the Past (bumped this one up in confidence after WK's last post)

    These I'm guessing only because I'd be surprised they're not somewhere in the top 100 otherwise given what I've read from WK and elsewhere:

    Persona 3
    SMT: Nocturne
    Some Guilty Gear game given your love of fighters (a more random guess after racking my brain, because I wanted to include 10 and this would be a third non-RPG). I do not know the series at all so can't pick one, or maybe this is where you cheat and pick the series as a whole.

    I'm also surprised Suikoden I is nowhere in the top 100, but I don't think it's in the top 10.

    Other fan favorites that I'm willing to call as NOT going to be there: Ocarina of Time, FFVII.

  3. #393
    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    In no particular order:

    (SPOILER)
    Final Fantasy VI
    Chrono Trigger
    Persona 3
    Persona 4
    The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
    Mega Man 2 - the 'turning 30 game', didn't have that on here until you gave that hint (dropped Zelda: OOT for it)
    Xenogears
    Suikoden 2
    Metal Gear Solid 3 - this is the curveball, maybe you just didn't like it as much as the other MGS games
    Final Fantasy VII - I can't remember if you hate VII or just like to critique it, so this is the shakiest of my guesses

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  4. #394
    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    Hmm, 70% overlap with Raistlin's list. I'm pretty sure he got one obvious one I didn't.

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  5. #395
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    Yes, I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the game that's going to be #10.

    (SPOILER)I did not even think to look for what other Mega Man classics weren't already mentioned. I like Mega Man 2 as a "otherwise surprised it's not somewhere in the top 100" guess even before the turning 30 hint, which I completely neglected. I'm pretty confident this is on the list now.
    Last edited by Raistlin; 10-14-2017 at 12:52 AM.

  6. #396
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    10.My relationship with FFTactics has been a little strange the last decade or so. I blame a large part on it with my falling out with Tactical RPGs or as I like to think of them as useless time sinks. I kind of blame NIS and their Disgaea series for being so unapologetically frank about the nature of the genre which promotes endless grinding for diminishing rewards. In fact this revelation made it quite difficult to even finish War of the Lions, which I considered to be a sad state of affairs for me. How could a game that really opened my eyes in the late 90s now kind of bore me? I'm sure you're wondering why I'm starting my tenth favorite game of all time on a rather pessimistic note. Well ultimately I realized the issue was me and my troutty way of playing the game. I'd become so fixated on completion and grinding that I ultimately transformed what was once an engaging experience into a chore. That's not how this game is suppose to be played. Not endless grinding for skills I'm never going to use, not borking my levels to transform every story battle into a formality of my inevitable victory with mu overpowered party, not figuring out how to transform every battle into some level party experience. I got so munchkin with the genre that I kind of lost track with what made this game so special for me. Once I realized what I was doing, I was finally able to really embrace the game again the way I had before. Tactics is a game that combines a lot of things I love: A well developed Job Class system that gives me that perfect balance of customization while retaining specialization, a world and setting with historical context and allusions that intrigues my love of history, my fascination with astrology, and a story about people and the morally grey conflicts that humans often find themselves in. If I had to give one gripe with the plot it's the fact the Lucavi story arc ultimately takes over despite being far less interesting than the actual Lion War. I'm not sure what that really says about the writing, when demons running a church based on a false faith are masterminding a scheme to cause the war and bring back their world ending leader is somehow less interesting than a story about asshole nobles screwing everyone over for a short-lived taste of power. Perhaps it simply shows that I often appreciate a more humanistic story than a fantasy one. I think what ultimately draws me to FFTactics is the game's strong cast of characters, with special mention going to the two central characters of Delita and Ramza. As much of a despicable human being Algus is, I can at least understand where he is coming from. I don't agree of course but I appreciate the fact that a guy with such simple motivations can be such an interesting figure who really drives home Ramza's conflict in the first chapter of living up to his noble heritage. Wiegraf deserves special mention as he is ultimately a tragic figure who tried to do good and was ultimately corrupted after losing everything. I mean he begins the game as this disenfranchised soldier simply fighting for a cause to make the nobility to treat their common soldiers better and give them their due pay and he ends up losing almost everything as corruption within his own ranks and the death of his sister hang on his shoulders. To see him again as a Knight of the Church in the later chapters is actually a bit relieving until he finally succumbs to the power of the Zodiac Stones and becomes that one boss in the game, yet it's fitting that such a figure who had a profound effect on Ramza and vice versa would be one of the greatest obstacles to conquer in the game for the player. The Beoluve family itself is a rather gripping drama concerning patricide, regicide, and the hubris of living for a name instead of the people who make it up. I feel that's often a central theme that defines the differences between the ideology of Ramza and Delita. Delita is driven by a sense of justice for the good of all, but unlike Ramza, he loses sight of the human element in all of it to make it worthwhile. He saves Ivalice from a corrupt nobility out for itself but in doing so had to become the very thing he fought for leading his entire cause to be one of hypocrisy. Even his one true friend is nothing but a pawn to him and in the end, he winds up being hailed as a hero and king but his victory is ultimately hollow. For me, what ultimately makes his final words in the game's epilogue matter is the fact we can once again see a hint of the old Delita who was just as naive and idealistic as Ramza. If Delita was truly as cold-hearted as we are led to believe, then his final outcome would not end with him saying such a phrase with such remorse. It's here where I feel Matsuno truly shines with his writing as we witness the intellectual moral harshness of Ivalice and the knowledge that despite Delita's terrible actions, he is in the end freeing Ivalice from it's current perpetual quagmire of political conflict and bickering among the nobility at the cost of the commoners who are treated more like cattle than people. It's a bitter pill to swallow but one that has some resonance within the real world.Yet it's Ramza that is the heart of the whole matter. A soft-hearted noble who inherited his father's good nature and his brotherhood with Delita opening his eyes to the fact that your family name doesn't make you any better than those without one. It's interesting to watch the idealistic Ramza try his hardest to live up to his family name in the first chapter, even being rewarded for making heartless decisions once or twice despite the fact that each one gives Ramza more internal conflict. To watch the influences of Delita who is kind and equally as skilled as the high born lads Ramza travels with be treated unfairly while Algus, a disgrace noble's son try to properly educate Ramza on how nobles should be. Ultimately it leads to the death of one of them and the irreversible downward slide of the other, but Ramza continues to wrestle with his conflicting desire for justice in a world where justice means different things to people depending on whether they have a name or not. That is something we see ourselves in the real world as it often feels like those of more importance can get away with terrible crimes where those that cannot are often unfairly punished. Ramza doesn't awaken to justice here but instead spends the second chapter running away from his problems, only when he finds out that Delita is alive, learns of the Zodiac Stones, and finally conquers Gafgarion a possible future self Ramza may have become had he continued to run from his problems. Yet unlike a traditional hero story where the hero begins to win triumphantly once they conquer their spiritual journey, Ramza is instead tested and slowly loses everything but his sense of justice. His trouble only tempers his resolve and we watch as the young cadet who did as he was told and int he shadow of his brothers rose to be not only to have an unstoppable resolve but prove he was the one who truly inherited the spirit of his father. It's interesting how Delita's journey is one of material gain at the cost of his soul, while Ramza's is a spiritual journey where he must discard the earthly desires that hold him down. It's incredible elegant in it's execution and I feel it leaves a much more profound lasting feeling after the credits roll and Delita utters his final lines. It is ultimately the games themes and characters that keep this game so special to me. In High School I began writing a novel with a friend and we decided to make it a trilogy, though in the Final Fantasy sense of similar themes but each story taking place in different settings and with a new cast. Our initial novel was heavily inspired by the various media we were consuming at the time and even began it's life as a sort of FF fanfic. The second novel though was planned to be largely inspired by FFTactics, including the story having two protagonist of similar nature on opposite paths in life. We never finished the first novel, I'm still currently writing it and it's currently on it's fourth draft, yet I still find myself wanting to write that second novel, especially when my thoughts dwell on FFTactics for too long and that might be what I love about this game the most, the fact it still inspires me to want to do something I truly love.


    Coming Up next: In the beginning, there was Sword and Shield...


  7. #397
    *permanent smite* Spuuky's Avatar
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    A worthy presence in any top 10. In my opinion, either the best or second best game to bear the Final Fantasy name.

  8. #398
    Yossarian Lives Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    An excellent write up on what makes FFT so great.

  9. #399
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    FFT is my personal top FF. I also 100% understand your "troutty way of playing," because a number of my playthroughs have stalled and been forgotten by me getting sidetracked with grinding rather than just enjoying the challenge and story. But it's a fantastic story, great characters, great job system. Terrible translation for the PS1 version, of course, though I still use the PS1's names and titles.

    Also, Suikoden II all the way down at #9? Outrage!

  10. #400
    disc jockey to your heart krissy's Avatar
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    smurfing called it

    edit:

    unrelated but i used 'the zodiac brave story' by SQUARE as a reference when writing a high school essay on morality and ethics

    my teacher must've been like 'what is this'

  11. #401
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    9.
    So yeah... totally cheating with this one but technically there was a release of the game that packaged both of them together, but not counting that excuse, my reasoning really has to do with the fact the two entries really flow well into each other. Suikoden II at times feels like an extension of where Suikoden left off and one of the games highlights for me is seeing all of the returning cast members and conclusions to some of their character arcs in the sequel. Only Suikogaiden really has a similar vibe from what little I've played, whereas the later entries have legacy style callbacks to the other entries but never quite got it like these first two did.
    Suikoden is based on a Chinese Novel of the same name and means Water Margin roughly. The novel is the story of a 108 men and women who band together in the water marshes to become bandits and fight the corrupt government institutes that led them all to forsake the system. I have actually read a decent chunk of the book and it's pretty good as it tells each characters individual story of their fall from grace in society and having to start a life of crime to get by. From these elements, Suikoden the series is largely about a person who bands together 108 like minded individuals to help them either fight a corrupt regime, or save their homeland from an outside invader. One of the major framing devices for this series are the 27 True Runes which are physical and sentient embodiment of the power that runs the world. All magic is derivative of the true runes, and the true runes grant immortality and agelessness to the bearer, but the runes power comes at a cost as the runes usually place a heavy burden of destiny on those who use them.
    Quick plot rundown for those who haven't played the series, and then I'll get into the nitty gritty. Suikoden is the story of Tir McDohl, the son of the Great General Teo McDohl of the Scarlet Moon Empire. The empire has finally gotten back on it's feet after a devastating civil war caused by a succession crisis when the former emperor chose his younger son to succeed him over his eldest. The scars of war still linger in some parts of the land but Emperor Barbarossa has largely returned the empire to one of prosperity along with his Six Great Generals. The story begins when Tir officially joins the imperial army and is put under the care of the corrupt Bureaucrat Kraze. As Tir and his entourage complete tasks for the empire, they slowly come to realize that while the capital is rather content, the surrounding towns and regions are suffering from over taxation and corrupt officials abusing their power. A Liberation Army has formed to counter these grievances but is much too small to do anything about it. On one mission, the group encounters a terrible beast they can't possibly stop until Tir's best friend, the mysterious Ted reveals that he is in possession of the Soul Eater, the True Rune of Life and Death. When Ted is ratted out to the upper members of the imperials, it turns out that the Court Magician Windy is actually looking for the rune and she has Ted nearly killed in order to get it. Knowing he can't escape her grasp, Ted transfers the Rune to Tir and asks him to leave the capital. Now a fugitive, Tir allies himself with the small Liberation Army. He quickly becomes friends with their leader who is trying to get Tir to join their cause when she is finally killed in a raid. Her dying wish is for Tir to continue the cause. Recruiting her brother, Mathiu, the famous Tactician (comically mistranslated as Surgeon in the game for some reason) Tir begins to build the Liberation Army from a rag tag group of misfits into a major force for reform.
    Suikoden II takes place a years after the first game in the western countries of the City States of Jowstown and the Highland Kingdom. Highland had been fighting an unsuccessful war against their southern rivals of the City States for a number of years and both sides grew tired of the conflict and had finally decided to sign a peace treaty to end the war. Riou and his best friend Jowy are members of the Unicorn Brigade, a youth military unit created by Highland to boost morale but never really fought in the main conflict. Jowy comes from a prestigious family in their hometown whom he secretly hates, whereas Riou is an orphan raised with another orphan named Nanami by a disgraced former general named Genkaku. The night before the peace treaty is signed, the unit is attacked by soldiers of the City States and are largely slaughtered, realizing their commanding officer's command to retreat down the only road to escape is a bad call, the two boys backtrack to the camp where they discover that the "attack" was actually a false flag operation led by Highland's own Prince Luca as a means to fire back up Highland's desire for war against the City States and to keep the war going. The boys barely escape the attack and soon are separated after jumping down a waterfall to escape pursuit. Riou is rescued by a band of mercenaries working for the City State of Muse. Riou is thought to be a spy and put to work on meager chores until he is eventually rescued by Jowy who was rescued by a kind family from a town not to far.
    The two return to their homeland but are captured and tried as spies and traitors working for the City-States in order to conceal the truth they know. They are rescued by the mercenaries Riou had met and are smuggled back across the border by them. Here they witness firsthand the depths of cruelty that Luca Blight has in store for the City States as he has no intention of conquering his enemies, he seeks to genocide the entire population. The two boys decide to join the mercenaries to stop the war but find the City States are a dysfunctional group where every nation is more concerned about their own priorities and old grudges to actually recognize the real threat Luca Blight is. The City States begin to fall one by one. The boys end up devising very different means of stopping the war, which ultimately finds them on opposing sides in the conflict in order to bring the war to an end.
    The original Suikoden is such an odd game when I think about it. The original concept for Suikoden story would eventually become the more popular sequel Suikoden II, but in an odd moment of brilliant foresight, the developers knew their total lack of experience in developing RPGs would hinder their ability to live up to the stories intricate nature, so instead they wrote up a different plot that became this game and used it as a test run to work out all of their ideas and build their experience. From a narrative perspective, Suikoden jumps back and forth between brilliance and hokey cliche storms. You have to deal with Tolkein-esque Dwarves and Elves conflicts, fruity French stereotypes, and a goddamn Dracula expy. On the flip side, there are some powerful moments of betrayals, noble sacrifices, characters dealing with war crimes, and Tir's climatic conflict with his father.
    So the game really goes back and forth between some great writing and feeling irrelevant. Not helping is the fact the game has some awesome background narrative introduced in a few production manuals, the novelization, and a series of short stories that give lots of background info about the Succession War, Odessa's background, the Kelekka Incident, the history of the McDohl household including Gremio's past, Pahn's past, Ted's past and more; yet all of it is left in supplemental material that never made it out of Japan so yeah...the game still feels like a 16-bit RPG trying to be really epic and not always succeeding. Granted, I'm making this sound worse than it really is, Suikoden's plot is still fairly enjoyable but I don't want to mislead you into thinking it's so great it can stand alone in my top ten. In truth, if I had done the games individually, Suikoden would be somewhere in my 60s. A good game marred by an amateurish design that has not aged as well as I would have hoped. Still it has these profound moments like with the characterization of Emperor Barbarossa, a man who actually shows up only three times in the game, but proves to be such a well rounded figure who subverts the usual evil emperor role that he comes across as one of the game's most tragic figures. His final scene really places a different spin on the whole war and transitions the conflict from a corrupt empire to one simply by one figure manipulating the system for their own ends. He comes across like Czar Nicholas II of Russia, who was considered to be a very personable figure who allowed his personal domestic issues to blind him to the real troubles of his empire and see him lose everything. Of all the villains of the series, Barbarossa was the most human to me.
    Course it's when you take the game as an action packed prologue to Suikoden II that I feel the game really shines. Twenty three characters from Suikoden return in this game as playable characters and at least a dozen more make cameos. In truth Suikoden 1's ending is rather bittersweet, even with the best ending since it leaves so many questions unanswered but Suikoden II ends up actually putting those questions to rest and some of the game's most powerful moments for me are when old allies reunite. This is not to say Suikoden II can't stand alone on its own merits. Far from it actually, most of the callbacks create a nice cohesion and fill in some backstory for people, but none of that is needed to enjoy Suikoden II's standalone story. The best way I could put it is that you can appreciate the history concerning WWII without really delving into WWI history, but knowing that background creates a clearer picture of the events. despite that, between the two, Suikoden II has the superior writing and design.
    The politics are more complex, there is less emphasis on traditional and overused fantasy cliches, the villains and antagonists are largely played more straight and serious with the exception of returning villain Neclord who is still hammy as ever. What I really have to give my respect for is that Luca Blight is a pretty straight omnicidal maniac which is kind of a dime a dozen in the medium, but he's shown in such a ruthless and frightening way that despite being one of the more straight evil characters in the series he is truly effective. The boss battle with him alone may be one of the best boss battles in the series and is up there with Magus in CT as one of the coolest boss battles in an RPG. There is almost an interesting parallel to the Battletech franchise here as a major part of Suikoden II's conflict really comes down to the petty squabbles among the City States despite facing a common enemy. Much like the Clan conflict of Battletech, the City-States have to be almost completely conquered before they wake up to realize how serious of a threat Luca Blight really is. It was kind of amusing to learn in Suikoden III that Tinto, easily the biggest pricks of the City States, wound up seceding from the Dunan Republic that forms by the end of SII because they were pretty selfish bastards and didn't get along with anyone. I mean they only end up helping Riou's cause because Riou saves them from an unrelated incident from the war and the Mayor of Tinto owed him.
    This in itself is a large part of why I love the Suikoden series, because it's hard to find a make-believe world function so close to real world politics and history. A minor conflict in SII is the bad blood between the cities of South Window and Tinto over territory they lost to the Toran Republic (the nation formed by McDohl from the remnants of the Scarlet Moon Empire) which itself is a callback to an event from the first game, because your strategist defeats one of the Great Generals by temporarily allying with the City States of Jowston to attack his region at the same time as the Liberation Army, Mathiu ultimately saying that the land lost to the invaders would be taken back later, and that "later" is the event that caused the falling out between the two City State members. It's that level of continuity that makes this series so unique and interesting. I think only Front Mission has ever come close to the same level of detail and even that series tends to be way more coy about it's interconnected nature. While the Highland City State conflict has it's own unique history, the actual Dunan Unification War winds up being nearly lost and won thanks to unrelated events from the first game showing one of the unique ways how history kind of ebbs and flows like in real life.
    Also, unlike FFtactics, Suikoden I and II does a better job of making sure the human drama stays upfront as opposed to the Rune being the central plot element. The Soul Eater begins the conflict in the first game but doesn't really come into play outside of the beginning and ends of the game, the Rune of Beginnings in SII feel more like a plot excuse as to how some nobody 16 year old orphan ends up leading a major war. They are a means to an end. McDohl has to face struggles within the Liberation Army by former members under Odessa, he deals with traitors to the cause, the death of close allies and friends, and he ends up facing off against his own father over political values. Riou faces being betrayed by his own homeland and having to find a new life in a foreign land that hates him, he deals with political infighting, genocides, assassinations, and ultimately comes into conflict with his own best friend who is fighting for the same thing as him. This is what makes the series so great, it's the human element of it's conflicts that make the stories compelling. The True Runes draw you in but it's the characters and the historical backdrop that make you stay.
    I think I've rambled enough on this, for me Suikoden has always felt like a hard sell to other people. The games are kind of on the easy side, the "collect 108 characters" sounds more daunting than it really is, the games kind of look low value compared to flashier and prettier games in the genre, and historical drama style plots are pretty niche in the genre as well. Perhaps part of this also stems from my own experience with the franchise. I found out about it in a magazine preview that I showed a friend. They picked it up and ended up really loving the game so when I finally got my own PS1, they lent it to me. I was not terribly impressed at first, especially coming off FFTactics and Xenogears, but I stuck to it and ended up really enjoying the game. I vaguely remember playing the sequel he lent me a year or so later but my interest in the series didn't start up until I got the third entry which really made me want to retrace the older installments. I got the first game in a bargain bin along with P2: EP at EB Games and was annoyed that Suikoden II was just too damn expensive to get a copy of. I finally acquired it by taking advantage of some Amazon gift cards a few years back and I seriously sat down and played the trilogy again to great satisfaction. It's definitely one of those franchises I end up liking a little more every time I play it and my only gripe nowadays is finding people to really talk to about the series. I work on the series Wiki but it's not really the same as a forum experience sadly. So I guess what I'm saying is that I need more of you to bite the bullet and pick up the series.



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  12. #402
    disc jockey to your heart krissy's Avatar
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    SHE'S YOUR LINK TO YOU PAST BUDDY WINK WINK

  13. #403
    Shlup's Retired Pimp Raistlin's Avatar
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    Cheater.

    Though I'm vindicated in my prediction that S1 was by itself not top-10 material. 60s sounds fair. Yes, SII is largely a continuation of SI and not just story-wise; SII took everything SI did, but did it better. It's a great example of a development team learning from and building on its prior efforts. But it's also an entirely separate game (I actually played it first, randomly finding it for next-to-nothing at a Gamestop in the late '90s before it became a cult hit).

    SII remains my favorite overall game. It's a wonderful story and amazing characters. You have the intricate story of power between nations and backstabbing politicians, but also the more personal story of the endearing relationship between Riou-Namami-Jowy (and Pilika). I love how the True Rune supernatural stuff is basically just used to create a little mystical aura and air of mystery over events, but the focus remains entirely on the actual people. It's not about saving the world, but about saving your home and loved ones. The music doesn't have any of the powerful individual scores of some of the top FF titles, but each song seems to fit the environment perfectly and helps draw you in. Sure, it's on the easy side (though Luca Blight is very imposing on a first playthrough), but if you play JRPGs primarily for the storytelling, then SII needs to be near of the top of your list.

    Quote Originally Posted by WK
    ...my only gripe nowadays is finding people to really talk to about the series. I work on the series Wiki but it's not really the same as a forum experience sadly. So I guess what I'm saying is that I need more of you to bite the bullet and pick up the series.
    I'm pretty sure I can talk (and have talked) about Suikoden enough for multiple people.

    I've had the urge for a little while to do a new playthrough, but starting chronologically from SIV. If I end up doing that, I'll start a new thread for each game that I'm playing.

  14. #404
    Pinkasaurus Rex Cid's Knight Pumpkin's Avatar
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    I play the Sweekodens too

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    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raistlin View Post
    Cheater.

    Though I'm vindicated in my prediction that S1 was by itself not top-10 material. 60s sounds fair. Yes, SII is largely a continuation of SI and not just story-wise; SII took everything SI did, but did it better. It's a great example of a development team learning from and building on its prior efforts. But it's also an entirely separate game (I actually played it first, randomly finding it for next-to-nothing at a Gamestop in the late '90s before it became a cult hit).

    SII remains my favorite overall game. It's a wonderful story and amazing characters. You have the intricate story of power between nations and backstabbing politicians, but also the more personal story of the endearing relationship between Riou-Namami-Jowy (and Pilika). I love how the True Rune supernatural stuff is basically just used to create a little mystical aura and air of mystery over events, but the focus remains entirely on the actual people. It's not about saving the world, but about saving your home and loved ones. The music doesn't have any of the powerful individual scores of some of the top FF titles, but each song seems to fit the environment perfectly and helps draw you in. Sure, it's on the easy side (though Luca Blight is very imposing on a first playthrough), but if you play JRPGs primarily for the storytelling, then SII needs to be near of the top of your list.

    Quote Originally Posted by WK
    ...my only gripe nowadays is finding people to really talk to about the series. I work on the series Wiki but it's not really the same as a forum experience sadly. So I guess what I'm saying is that I need more of you to bite the bullet and pick up the series.
    I'm pretty sure I can talk (and have talked) about Suikoden enough for multiple people.

    I've had the urge for a little while to do a new playthrough, but starting chronologically from SIV. If I end up doing that, I'll start a new thread for each game that I'm playing.
    Hey I said upfront I cheated with one of the entries and considering I've always combo the two games together when talking about favorite JRPGs in the past, I'm surprised no one picked up on that one.

    You'll definitely have to make some threads if you do a new playthrough. Talking about the series so much lately kind of makes me want to bust them out again myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin View Post
    I play the Sweekodens too
    I know you do, but you don't talk about them as much as I would like.

    Though I will say now, that as much as I love the plays in SIII, Tai Ho's Iron Chef competition in SII is still my favorite minigame in the series. Though I also love the tile game in SIV as well, that thing is addicting.

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