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  • Ashelia B'nargin Dalmasca

    11 47.83%
  • Rikku

    12 52.17%
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Thread: EoFF's Ultimate Character Tournament Round 1 - Ashe vs Rikku (CLOSED)

  1. #31
    Pinkasaurus Rex Cid's Knight Pumpkin's Avatar
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    Pumpkin Contrary (Sargatanas)

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    Ashe just bugs me because she is a serious lady on a serious mission with a serious story, and you expect me to believe she's going to go around with a bright pink belt and call it a skirt? No.

    And yes, I know she's in disguise but there are a million other things she could wear. And no, this isn't about sexualization in general, its about it not fitting the character. They just wanted her to show off some ass-cheek even though it didn't fit

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    wtf

    love doesn't = strength or weakness and she loved her prince man.



  3. #33
    ˇApagando las luces! Vermachtnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpkin View Post
    its about it not fitting the character
    It fits pretty well if you ask me

  4. #34
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post

    wtf

    love doesn't = strength or weakness and she loved her prince man.
    It has more to do with the fact that her plot doesn't involve becoming the male leads arm candy. In truth Ashe is the main character of her story and her plot doesn't really involve romance outside of Rasler, who in a nice subversion of the "stuffed in fridge trope" is gender reversed. He's used to manipulate her, but it's not like she's spending the whole game trying to bring him back (X-2 Yuna), nor getting some guys attention cause she mistakenly loves him (Tifa and Rinoa) or watching her story ultimately wind up about getting together with the guy after her plot points are usually resolved early and shown she can't do anything without the lead male (Garnet and FFX Yuna) so I would say that Ashe is the serious curve ball of female heroines that the series really needed; and I am a bit sad she lost to basically a stock character we've seen already five times before her.

  5. #35
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post

    wtf

    love doesn't = strength or weakness and she loved her prince man.
    It has more to do with the fact that her plot doesn't involve becoming the male leads arm candy. In truth Ashe is the main character of her story and her plot doesn't really involve romance outside of Rasler, who in a nice subversion of the "stuffed in fridge trope" is gender reversed. He's used to manipulate her, but it's not like she's spending the whole game trying to bring him back (X-2 Yuna), nor getting some guys attention cause she mistakenly loves him (Tifa and Rinoa) or watching her story ultimately wind up about getting together with the guy after her plot points are usually resolved early and shown she can't do anything without the lead male (Garnet and FFX Yuna) so I would say that Ashe is the serious curve ball of female heroines that the series really needed; and I am a bit sad she lost to basically a stock character we've seen already five times before her.
    this

  6. #36
    Yossarian Lives Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    At this point WK I am convinced you are saying as outlandish and strange things as you possibly can, just to see if you can say something so out there that even Fynn won't agree with you

    Rinoa mistakenly loves Squall? Garner and Yuna can't do anything without Zidane and Tidus? Whaaaaat? Did we play the same games?

  7. #37

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    Late as always, but obviously Ashe
    FF games played so far: FFIV; FFVI; FFVII; FFX; FFX-2; FFXII; FFTA; FFXIII Trilogy

    Currently playing: None

    Favourite FF games: FFVI; FFXII

  8. #38
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    Check WK's top 100 to see that we do disagree sometimes

    But yeah, this poll just drove the point home that XII has really flown over people's heads, even so many years later

  9. #39
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    At this point WK I am convinced you are saying as outlandish and strange things as you possibly can, just to see if you can say something so out there that even Fynn won't agree with you

    Rinoa mistakenly loves Squall? Garner and Yuna can't do anything without Zidane and Tidus? Whaaaaat? Did we play the same games?
    Rinoa basically falls in love with Squall at first sight and spends the majority of the game trying to get him out of his shell and into her pants, when she's not throwing tantrums at her father and the party or being kidnapped and/or possessed by Ultimecia.

    Garnet asks Zidane to kidnap her, decides to go home anyway and do things herself, gets captured and hands over the big bad her latent summoning powers, has to be rescued, follows Zidane around until she is powerless to stop Kuja from killing her mother, becomes queen and almost loses her home, goes mute for most of Disc 3 until she decides its useless to do so and gets over it, and then follows Zidane around to stop his evil brother. Then she gets her happy ending when she finds out Zidane didn't actually die and she gets him into her pants.

    Yuna meets Tidus and asks him to come along cause she knew his jerkass father, jeopardizes the Pilgrimage to humor Seymour and to bring him to justice for killing his father, despite none of this trout having anything to do with her, and drags her guardians into her scheme getting them all branded as heretics by the church and the enemies of an entire race of people. She gets kidnapped, twice. Forcing her guardians to have to cross a desert and nearly get killed with the rest of the Al Bhed, have to storm Bevelle for her dumb wedding which frankly never made sense as a plot point. Bangs Tidus because Auron is too sexy for her. She gets to Zanarkind, realizes the truth about the Pilgramge and kills the only person who has been able to do anything to even give people even a remote sense of hope in her world on the pretense that there is another way. Doesn't have a clue wjhat this "other way is" but conveniently Tidus does because he's a plot device, and it's using his plan and his knowledge of his old man that actually ends up saving Spira, not anything Yuna actually did.

    Ashe on the other hand, loses her family, her husband, and her kingdom and instead of moping about it, or waiting for someone to help her, forms the Resistance, travels across Ivalice to rob her ancestral tombs, gains the magic artifact of doom, and instead of spending the whole game trying to keep it from the bad guys, she actually spends the whole game debating about using it on them.
    She basically let's go of her anger and decides that her selfish desire for revenge would not do any good for her people by striking out on an "enemy" that is really just a few policy makers and not the people who make up their nation. Thus not starting an endless cycle of revenge and bad blood between two nations. She doesn't take the easy road of allying with Rozzario to have them help her restore her kingdom, though she would likely be a puppet queen for them in exchange; nor does she nuke Archades out of existence and build an empire of fear like her ancestor did so she would inevitably be a puppet Queen for the Occurians as well. She chose the path that would lead to the least amount of bloodshed and sorrow without having to have the writers bail her out. She got her kingdom backed because she happened to befriend Larsa, the future Emperor of Archades during the course of the game.

    You're accusing me of saying outlandish things, and not playing these games, but seriously Psy, when was the last time you really played any of these games cause I feel like my memory is a bit better at the moment.

  10. #40
    Yossarian Lives Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    I'm only joking about outlandish things in case that was not obvious I freely admit to not having played IX in a loooong time, but the others I have within the past 2-3 years. XII I have not played since 2007 but I haven't really been taking too much of an issue with what you said about that as I'm pretty ignorant on it, I just remember finding it boring and uninspiring both gameplay wise and storywise, so you definitely picked up on more nuance than me. I will concede you will definitely have a fresher memory on them than me!

  11. #41
    Sh♥tposter Extraordinaire Jinx's Avatar
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    Garnet didn't hand over her eidolons. They were forcefully taken from her and she deals with that and the trauma of her failures until she's healed and stronger and does something. Her becoming queen can be seen as her trying to take control of her life but still not having dealt with all the incredibly troutty things that have happened to her, including a massive rape allegory.

    She doesn't have to be saved, except perhaps physically. Emotionally she grows within. Zidane goes from being a dumb pervert to genuinely caring about her and helping in the ways he can because they're friends.

    Like jfc, that does not mean she's boy crazy. It's not even until after you defeat the final boss that she gives any indication she has feelings for him.

    And don't even get me started on Yuna.

    You can like Ashe all you want and think she's the best female in the series, just stop troll spinning things to make other female character who are also strong and interesting seem troutty because it fits your narrative.
    mfw you post

  12. #42

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

    Rinoa basically falls in love with Squall at first sight
    No she doesn't, that was just a fun dance between them. At that point in the game she had stronger feelings towards Seifer and wanted Seifer and when SeeD came to help out her rebel group she wanted Seifer to be there and was crushed when Seifer failed to become a SeeD.

    It was SQUALL who fell for her straight away and it was SQUALL who had the tantrum after Rinoa walked away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

    and spends the majority of the game trying to get him out of his shell and into her pants
    Trying to help somebody close down his Pink Floyd Wall isn't trying to get into his pants. Rinoa finds Squall absolutely frustrating and a cold bastard at first. It's not till the parade where he says that he'll make sure that she will be alright that she begins to think different. Yes, she gave Squall a bit of a tease before their dance, but Squall was alone and in corner and drinking alone. She was trying to cheer him up. Before the parade she wanted Seifer and saw Squall as a annoying bastard that she had to stay with because of the deal she made with Cid and SeeD.

    After the parade she stops crushing on Seifer and wondering about Seifer. Because she no longer has a crush on him and is more interested in Squall who showed some care and kindness towards her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

    when she's not throwing tantrums at her father and the party or being kidnapped and/or possessed by Ultimecia.
    Her father was a asshole who wanted to lock her up like a prisoner. She never throws a tantrum at the party. Speaking your emotions, feelings and fears is not throwing a tantrum. She gets smurfing annoyed and frustrated at CD 1 Squall, but like who wouldn't ? I love Squall, but at the start he's a smurfing wanker.

    She's not a SeeD. She's just a naive and reckless teenaged girl. Everybody else has some decent army training, while Rinoa has been doing everything independent with no trainning. She's bound to mess up.

    Also her becoming a puppet of Ulti is not her fault. Selphie and Quistis would've been protected by Edea because Edea was like a Mother to them, so Ulti's control had to go to the girl that she didn't know. Rinoa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

    Garnet asks Zidane to kidnap her, decides to go home anyway and do things herself, gets captured and hands over the big bad her latent summoning powers,.
    That's harsh on Garnet ! She doesn't "hand them over ", she again like Rinoa is naive and believes that there's some good still in her Mum. And Garnet was right as shown in Brahne's death. There was good in Brahne, she was just blinded and addicted to greed. It's not Garnet's fault for caring and being worried about her only parental figure in her life left alive. It's not her fault that Kuja puts her into coma and has her summons taken away from her by Zorn and Thorn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    follows Zidane around until she is powerless to stop Kuja from killing her mother, becomes queen and almost loses her home, goes mute for most of Disc 3 until she decides its useless to do so and gets over it
    She becomes depressed because Kuja kills her Mother in front of her face and then smurfs up her kingdom again front of her face. Overcoming her depression and shock is pretty badass af. I know Garnet is a video game character, but TBH I've always wished that I was this strong. Strong as Garnet was here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

    Then she gets her happy ending when she finds out Zidane didn't actually die and she gets him into her pants.
    Before Zidane makes his surprising return she realizes that she has to move on and go on without Zidane. She was happy to see him alive, because she loved him. And she's allowed too. She was happy to see him alive and okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

    Yuna meets Tidus and asks him to come along cause she knew his jerkass father

    Ashe on the other hand, loses her family, her husband, and her kingdom and instead of moping about it, or waiting for someone to help her, forms the Resistance, travels across Ivalice to rob her ancestral tombs, gains the magic artifact of doom, and instead of spending the whole game trying to keep it from the bad guys, she
    Okay, what Jinx said here.

    You can like Ashe all you want and think she's the best female in the series, just stop troll spinning things to make other female character who are also strong and interesting seem troutty because it fits your narrative.
    Last edited by maybee; 08-15-2017 at 06:16 PM.



  14. #44
    Pinkasaurus Rex Cid's Knight Pumpkin's Avatar
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    So much elitism about opinions

    Be careful, you'll scare the children!

  15. #45
    ˇApagando las luces! Vermachtnis's Avatar
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    Fricken neckbeards arguing over which waifu is better.

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