View Poll Results: The Best Persona Bro?

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  • Junpei

    6 54.55%
  • Yosuke

    2 18.18%
  • Ryuji

    3 27.27%
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Thread: Junpei vs. Yosukie vs. Ryuji

  1. #16

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    He wouldn't have had any ammunition to guilt them if they hadn't actively poisoned him and you. Like, it's not hard to follow instructions. They do it later to avoid hurting Nanako so obviously they just didn't care what they did to Yosuke or you, or the fact they made you both go hungry.

    The girls then enter Yosuke and you into the Crossdressing competition.

    And of course on the camping trip, they literally beat Kanji into unconsciousness. Oh and of course it's like our first scenes with Chie where she kicks Yosuke in the nuts.

    So we've got unprovoked assault on the girls' side vs. Yosukebeing a teenage boy who likes to see girls in bikinis. I mean, geez, why wasn't he the main villain, am I right?


    Or maybe Yosuke is no different from Chie and this is all harmless fun between friends? Yeah, that's what it is.

    I get it, P4's humor and style is not for everyone. Maybe you feel these are all terrible human beings and you don't buy into their relationship at all. That's fine, that's your right. But singling out Yosuke's actions to wards a specific group of girls, one of which he has a highly..."antagonistic" relationship with and saying 'AHA! MISOGYNIST EXPOSED!" is just being biased and unfair to the point of losing all credibility. These actions were not done in a vacuum.

    What's more, there are dozens of hours of other scenes where he gets along just fine with the girls and where the girls get along just fine with him. Pointing to some slapstick and condemning him is just part of this weird hatedom Yosuke has because he's the most popular P4 character.
    Last edited by Forsaken Lover; 10-07-2017 at 05:54 PM.

  2. #17
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Yosuke is just kind of a pervert, which is nothing new as both Junpei and Ryuji are the same way, but I do feel that Yosuke is more adamant about it whereas Junpei grows out of it, especially once he meets Chidori, and Ryuji never really stooped to his levels. The idea it's all retaliatory is a bit misguided though as Yosuke had kind of brought the swimsuits along way before the girls poisoned them and it was his idea they should cook for them anyway cause he liked the idea despite not even knowing if they could cook, he just kind of assumed cause it's apparently a girl thing. I mean he kind of had this weird girlfriend fetish angle going into the camping trip. The girls signing them up for the cross-dressing game was in retaliation of him signing them up for the beauty pageant, so he kind of struck first. I'm not saying this all mean "Sexists Evil Pig" but he definitely hits the perv meter far more and his constant deriding of Kanji's sexual orientation never gets better, so I can see how some people feel he's a misguided attempt at comedy who comes across more offensive than funny. I had a laugh though, and I would agree the girls are far more antagonistic and violent than the ones from other entries so there is certainly more give and take going on here.

    For me though, I just don't like him cause he's the least interesting of the three. Junpei has an interesting arc where he's a bro with the MC and then at odds with them due to his own insecurities and need to feel important, which is something he ends up always outgrowing and that makes him stand out from a lot of the cast by being someone who really matures. Ryuji has his whole issue with his track team and the bad blood it created due to his temper, and at least his social link is about trying to overcome this weakness and do what is right for them. Shame that couldn't translate into the main story where he remains a short-tempered idiot, but it is what it is. Eikichi dealt with a weight problem as a child that fueled his narcissism, his struggles against his father's wishes for him to take over the family business versus Eikichi's dreams of stardom, his rep as a delinquent, and his relationship with Kozy. Throw in the fact he's a very good friend who looks out for his people and you see he's a really good guy with several flaws built from his low self-esteem he's had since childhood. I mean he's a pretty complex character, and I didn't even have to resort to his biggest plot element he shares with the rest of the party.

    Yosuke, I mean what was his arc really about? Being bored being in a small town, okay fair enough, not compelling but relatable. Being ostracized cause his father's work is putting everyone out of business, not his fault and he does take more advantage of it than you would think which tells me he's adjusted to it. Playing second fiddle to life partner Yu? He seems pretty cool with that. I mean I struggle to even remember what his social link was about, which is often a major issue with the party ones in P4 for me. Yosuke's issue is that he's a little perverted butt monkey who is here to be the cosmic chew toy for the party half the time and the mouthpiece for the MC every other time, but he doesn't have any real arc or story that sets him apart or makes him compelling to watch.

  3. #18

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    He's your best friend. That's his character. I don't know why people get on his case for this. Sure you can say Junpei is your friend too and Michelle and Ryuji but they are still just "a friend." There is absolutely nothing that makes Junpei, Ryuji or Eikichi closer to you than any of the others. Yosuke is the first person whose darkest secrets you see and then help him through it. For the rest of the game he is your partner in everything and will be the first person to cheer you on or support you. There are a lot of little things, like the fact he will call you up to ask for your help at the store. (and then pay you) His final Social Link scene is you and him having a friendly fist fight and celebrating your youthful manliness.

    There was a YT comment on a Yosuke S Link video that commented about how Yosuke has better chemistry with the MC than the MC does with the actual girls. That's pretty much why people love him. It's why I love him.

  4. #19
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    I mean, everything you're saying is why I liked him when I first played the game. He was my favorite character for the longest time, and I even mained him in P4A. I'm hard on him because if I were friends with him in real life, the stuff he pulls wouldn't fly. The girls in P4 are certainly more aggressive; Chie's violence is unwarranted, and I mean Jesus, Yukiko, "studying" means "studying". That being said, the fact that karma comes back to bite him doesn't absolve Yosuke of the fact that he has put these girls in numerous situations that compromise their privacy to satisfy his own hormonal urges. In a game about seeing people for who they really are, Yosuke seems more focused on the superficial qualities of a woman (their ability to cook, what they look like in a swimsuit, etc) than how the people in question feel about his actions.

    To his credit, I misremembered the scene at the Amagi Inn. It was actually Teddie's idea to sneak to the girls' room because there were creepy noises in the guys' room, and it was Kanji's idea to sleep next to the girls. Yosuke's pretty enthusiastic about the idea, but he doesn't actually act on it.

    I think my biggest problem with Yosuke is more symptomatic with a problem I have with Persona 4 and 5 in general; the finer details of a party member's backstory (and their development) happen in a vacuum. Unlike WK, I LOVE Yosuke's S Link (still do, regardless of how I feel about him in the main game), but the Yosuke in the main story is so hit and miss for me. For every two cool things he does (he gives Teddie a home, that's like the nicest thing anyone does in that game), there's always something that casts him in an uglier light for me.
    Returners Represent!

  5. #20
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    Look, I'm not denouncing him as a raging misogynist or anything - I just wanted to point out the difference in how that sexism is presented to the player.

    Wolf also pretty much summed up my reasoning for liking Junpeiover Yosuke as well

  6. #21
    SHAAAAAUN! Scotty_ffgamer's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Iíd have to replay Persona 4 again to remember any of the finer details of the character arcs. Anyways, I will say it is a weakness of Persona 4 and 5 in that the social links donít impact the main story in any real way. I like Junpei more than the others, and a lot of that probably has to do with the fact that he develops and changes throughout the story.

    The cast of Persona 4 all felt a lot more static to me, if I remember right. They developed in the social links and were interesting, but they seemed a bit more one note and undeveloped in the main story. Again, itís just an issue with the social link system, and it probably doesnít help that I get the party social links out of the way as fast as possible. Everyone was good friends and had good chemistry, but I preferred the tension and growth into friends that happened with the P3 group.

    Persona 5 has much the same issue as 4, and my criticism is about the same.

    I would just like a better mix of growth and dynamic characterization in the main story and social links with your main group.

  7. #22
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    He's your best friend. That's his character. I don't know why people get on his case for this. Sure you can say Junpei is your friend too and Michelle and Ryuji but they are still just "a friend." There is absolutely nothing that makes Junpei, Ryuji or Eikichi closer to you than any of the others. Yosuke is the first person whose darkest secrets you see and then help him through it. For the rest of the game he is your partner in everything and will be the first person to cheer you on or support you. There are a lot of little things, like the fact he will call you up to ask for your help at the store. (and then pay you) His final Social Link scene is you and him having a friendly fist fight and celebrating your youthful manliness.

    There was a YT comment on a Yosuke S Link video that commented about how Yosuke has better chemistry with the MC than the MC does with the actual girls. That's pretty much why people love him. It's why I love him.
    Funny enough, and perhaps this says more about me, but I feel the opposite. I feel Yosuke was the "designated" bro who just gets super buddy with you pretty early with little say on your part because that's his role. What I like about Junpei is that he has to earn his friendship with you, and I don't mean his relationship with the MC, I mean with the player. You get chummy, you fight, you deal with his jealousy and you are there for him during his good times and dark times with Chidori. I feel like Junpei grows to be the best bro as the two of you really share ups and downs. It's the problem with Yosuke and Ryuji, like Scott_ffgamer points out, the characters growth is separate from the story and has no bearing on it, so even playing therapist for the guys never changes the disconnect you feel from the difference in their growth as characters in the plot versus the SL. Yosuke and Ryuji getting their Ultimate Personas are cute moments for them, but Junpei's was like a serious awesome moment for him and he's a great guy I like being around. He has his flaws, but you watch him really outgrow them and feel that impact, which is something that makes him and even Eikichi stand out compared to the more recent bros. It's why I didn't like it when P4 started making the party all designated SL links because it took away from the story proper. I think I would have liked Ryuji so much more if the growth of his Confidant Link had translated into the main story proper.

  8. #23
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    That's kind of the thing. I mean, I can't comment on Ryuji (yet), but with Yosuke I got this feeling that the game was really trying hard to make you like him - and in the end, that's what prevented me from really making a connection with him. He doesn't get any serious flaws that could make him controversial and he never really gets any conflict with you, while his flaws from a meta-perspective (like the sexism and homophobia mentioned before) is either played for laughs or as a point of relating to him ("haha, those girls, am I right, guys?"). It's like Atlus going "here's a best friend for you please love him we'll do anything for you to love him" rather than crafting someone that feels like an actual person who you can befriend by overcoming differences and gaining mutual respect. Yosuke just loves you from the getgo. Arguably, this could have worked much better for him without a silent protagonist that's just an audience avatar. But this is not the case here.

    Despite my gripes with him, I'm actually a bit upset that they cut out that romance option with him since that would arguably have made him more interesting in that he'd be the only gay romance option in the entire series, not counting 2, which may have been pretty groundbreaking in the 90s but still stands out from the romance options of the later games as pretty irrelevant.

  9. #24

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    Thing is, you don't always have differences. Yes, you might have occasional fights but that's totally unrelated to, say, Junpei being a sexist, jealous trouthead. That is a innate character flaw that makes him a bad person and a bad friend. You are under no obligation to care about him and he is not owed your friendship just because he bumps into a psycho girl he falls in love with.

    You guys are basically praising P3's greatest flaw in terms of storytelling - the total lack of S Links with your male teammates. Nobody liked that which is why they fixed it in 4 and 5.

  10. #25
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    Except Junpei really isn't like that. His progression is gradual, and in the female path, he gets over "but our leader is a girl thing?" pretty quickly. From what I recall, he had an alcoholic father or something, and his character evolution has much more to do with him just processing everything that happens around him, with Chidori being only part of his whole character arc. Even before he meets her, he comes to accept his role in the group as not the leader earlier, even if he doesn't fully embrace it until later. It's kind of unfair to describe someone dealing with such a crippling inferiority complex (that he deals with on his own, no less) as an irredeemably bad person who deserves to be cut from your life.

    I think we just have different approaches to what we expect from characters in games. I like my characters to be flawed. I like it when a game is frank about human nature because irl it's a very unhealthy thing to expect that people you want to be friends with will be perfect people who will just love you unconditionally and will never have any friction with you. I want a game to show me that you can be amazing friends with flawed people, rather than giving me a completely unrealistic scenario with perfect friends that will ultimately make me only depressed because friends like that can't exist in real life.

  11. #26
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    Honestly, I've never been a massive Junpei or Yosuke fan but I do agree with Fynn and WK that Junpei is the more compelling character even if, superficially, Yosuke is more comedic and built for laughs.

    They're both flawed in ways I don't appreciate, but I approve of Junpei's character development over the course of the game. Yosuke - and to be honest the majority of the cast - are more static and it is harder to detect moments of character development because it is so front-loaded.

    In Persona 3, everyone already has their persona. You don't need to go through a dungeon to obtain them. Because of this, their arc bleeds through into the main story until they all get their ultimate persona at a critical moment.

    Whereas, in Persona 4, each character introduction is preceded by a character development dungeon, which basically shows you a clear before and after image. Take Kanji. Before his character development dungeon, you see him as a brash delinquinent. Post dungeon, you see it's actually his problems with living up to some masculine ideal (and maybe sexuality, but that's a different argument), and how he works past it. Same goes for the other characters. Their character development post-dungeon is much more static because they've gone through their major character development simply in recruiting them, as opposed to the P3 method of interweaving it as part of the main plot.

    In the P3 method, Party Social Links act almost like Gaidens or side stories that aren't integral to the plot but serve to facilitate it. And you get a reward out of them regardless (getting the top level persona of that arcana).

    I will say I quite liked P3P's method, of having S.Links and main plot factor into development. But it really only works because your party members already have their persona. They join you straight away. The nature of Persona 4's writing is such that everyone has to go through a dungeon to claim their initial persona, and the plot dictates that they get their persona after some personal growth. Problem is, most of their growth happens when you first meet them (S.Links tend to reaffirm whatever message it's saying to gain their ultimate), so they feel static in the main plot because their primary problem is resolved.

    Honestly, my main problem is that he doesn't really seem to grow out of his juvenile behaviour and thoughts. I don't mind Yosuke being homophobic initially, but they really needed to follow that up later on in the game and they just didn't. I agree with Fynn about it being interesting the idea of Yosuke being a gay option, and it is a shame they scrapped that idea because it would've cast his homophobia into a whole new light.

    Junpei, for all his initial flaws, in my opinion he does go through some significant development and so for me is the more interesting character. Yosuke just seems a little too much like a cipher for 'best bro', and to be honest I kinda wanted that role to be given to Chie. Chie's cool.


  12. #27

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    Apparently an addition to Golden and its best ending is that Yosuke makes Junes better. It's an underappreciated aspect of the game that Inaba is so infinitely better characterized than P3's...whatever it was. Te island where an evil scientist set up a school because.

    We're introduced to so many aspects of Inaba's society and that includes the economy. I bring this up because in the end, Junes helps save the economy and the people of the town are no longer resentful. Things are looking up for the shopkeepers of Inaba. A minor detail? Sure but that's what building atmosphere is all about.

    And that is part of Yosuke's character development. He doesn't resent this "small town out in the sticks." He helps support Junes and in turn supports Inaba, saving the twon from the more mundane menace of economic hardship.

    Before I started Persona somebody said there is an argument to be made about P3 FES vs. P3P but there is literally no argument for P4 vs. P4G. They appear to have been totally right. Everything is better in Golden, even the ending and worldbuilding.

    Also it's been observed by people who have watched me play various RPGs that I just have a very first impressions view of things. If I like you within the first few hours of knowing you, I'll love you to the end. If I don't, you're worthless to me. That's probably what happened to Junpei.

    It also happened to Yukari. Notice a lot of people smurfin' hate Yukari. They weren't willing to wait for the flaws to be filled in and neither was I.
    Last edited by Forsaken Lover; 10-09-2017 at 12:26 PM.

  13. #28
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    A'nutoh Tia (Sargatanas)

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    I... really don't see how that makes Yosuke more likable or human.

    And Yukari is friggin' great and I am seriously annoyed with all the hate she gets. Like, sorry that this girl reacts to the stuff that weigh on her as well as all the difficulties she has to face now like a normal smurfing human being.

  14. #29

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    I was pointing out how his character did not just "end" at the beginning. It carried on to the very end of the game.

    And I think we're approaching this from very different angles. You're looking at it as a simple story as opposed to a role-playing game. And not in a Final Fantasy way but actual self-insert roleplaying. In the real world nobody gives a trout that your life is hard and you got problems. You meet someone who is a jerk to you and you flip them off. You don't ponder that daddy didn't love them enough or maybe their dog got run over. Maybe both those things are true but it doesn't occur to you because all that matters is this person was a jerk to you.

    Yukari and Junpei are not just characters in a story to apathetically evaluate. They are your friends. And if they do nothing to earn your friendship, if they instead constantly do things that make you mad, you're not going to love them anyway because character development.

    I love Mitsuru. Best character inf all of P3. Yukari's passive aggressive assaults on her all through the game are not going to be forgiven 40 hours in because she has a great moral epiphany and gets a message from her dad. That's not how you think about people.

  15. #30
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    They also have literally no reason to treat you right because in real life people just don't throw themselves at you and doing everything so that you'll love them right after you meet the,. Actually, wait, no, they do. They're called sycophants.

    And to be fair, both Yukari and Junpei start out being fairly friendly to you. It's only when you start spending a lot of time together that you start seeing the darker parts of their personalities - which is, again, realistic.

    And yes, I am enjoying both of these characters better because of the fact that I was roleplaying that guy as a self-insert protagonist. Because those flaws made them feel more real and the experience felt much more visceral than P4's wish-fulfillment fantasy.

    And sorry, but I really have no clue how you can get actual, deep friendships with other people when you just go "nope, you're a jerk, gtfo" if they ever wrong you in any way. Like, everyone has flaws, everyone's patience has limits, and you will encounter clashes at one point or another in an actual friendship that is not just surface-level hanging out etc. You cannot realistically expect someone to always be their perfect selves for you while also literally claiming you'd drop them the second they act like a jerk. A true, deep friendship is a type of relationship, and relationships need work in order to function well. Just like with a romantic partner, you really have to try to reach an understanding in spite of differences, rather than pretending the differences that cause you to clash don't exist.

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