Replaying Chrono Cross

[Forsaken Lover]

That pic is pretty adorable, gonna steal it.

And I remember some of CC's optional endings pretty vividly. I didn't get all of them myself but I watched t hem on YT. I remember being really frustrated at almost getting the ending where you solo the Time Devourer with Serge. It's mostly easy but it takes forever and eventually something happened and killed me. I wasn't that great at the game, I like to think Ive improved and could do it now (in the regular game, the mod probably wouldn't allow it).

But anyway, the endings are pretty great, We were talking about Serge's motivations. Well, one ending has Serge, Kid and Razzly joining the Magical Dreamers to rock out and a bewildered Lynx standing at the top of Fort Dragonia wondering where everybody is. Another ending has Kid taking over Acacia and the world. I think that's the one where Serge works at the Termina shop.

Overall, both pretty happy endings, I think.


I just beat the Dragon God mystifyingly named the Time Devourer. First run went very smoothly until the Black phase where it combo'ed Genius + Imbecile + Imbecile and finishing it off with BlackHole. Whole party wiped in an instant. For Round 2 my strategy was to get through the phase as fast as possible so I put Vigora and EagleEye on Serge and had him go crazy. Even got one crit for 900 damage in one attack. Once I got through that it was smooth sailing.

I save stated right after the boss because I'm very tired and want to be alert for the info dumps to come. I love this game but I recall the ending being...not very good. It makes you long for Xenogears which had the infamous Second Disk but still wrapped things up far more satisfyingly to my mind.

Oh and I totally skipped that Harle boss fight. I didn't know it existed.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah there is a ton of easily missed things in this game.

Okay one of the few places where I'm going to honestly say CT was better than CC is how static the NPCs can often be. Specifically the MC's mothers. Serge's mom is still scolding me about sleeping in late and how my relationship with Leena is, despite having Leena in my party... I'm like halfway through the fist disc at this point and I kind of remember her being a really flat character overall despite there being enough family drama in the background to make you feel like they would do more. Contrast this with Crono's mom who scolds you for sleeping in late, just about has a heart attack when you finally come home after being trialed as an enemy of the state, and even talks about the Black Omen when it shows up. She then gets unique dialogue the first time you bring in any party member who just joined you. Despite having no real backstory beyond being Crono's mom, she has a bit more personality and presence in the story, so far as being rather prominent in one of the game's final endings.

Serge's Mom isn't the only problem, I also find it weird having Leena's sister ask Serge to help make her sister not so much of a selfish bitch and you get nothing new from her or AW Leena if she's in your active party. Seems like some lost potential there. I know it's asking a lot especially when you think about the sheer amount of optional content and scenarios this game gives you which gives this game way more replay value than CT, but it still would have been nice to just add one or two lines of dialogue.

As for my file, I finished the Ghost ship scenario, got my two extra pieces of dialogue with Fargo since Nikki was in my party, and was told to seek the Water Dragon God's help. WDG no longer exists in Another World, so off to Home World to see how all my actions in the Hydra Marshes were not going to have any long term repercussions against me or innocent bystanders. So I stopped off at Termina first and decided to use all this damn Iron I farmed from the Skeletons to finally upgrade a good chunk of my team into some modern equipment. This very likely helped me a lot considering I was going to use Razzly for this part.

Genocided the genocidal dwarves and even blew up their tank that is always surprisingly more dangerous than you would think depsite how goofy the whole fight feels. This whole scenario easily stands out in the game due to just how surreal the whole scenario is with juxtaposition due to the cutesy graphics and critters, versus the heavy handed ethical scenario.

Due to not bringing Razzly into the Hydra battle, I ensured her sister would die for maximum drama and in order to unlock Razzly's Lv. 7 Tech when the time comes. Again, altruism gets you nowhere in this game. I also was able to collect the last of Skelly's parts after taking a quick jump over to the Island of the Damned to grab the last pieces, did his scenario in Termina and now I have a slightly better melee option for Black Innate. Oh and I got Pip as well, but I'm probably going to ignore him until NG+.

For now, I feel my team is going to be Serge, Kid, and either Leena or Razzly. as a mage character. Sadly, if Kid didn't have Pilfer, I would probably drop her for Greco since I prefer having two heavy fighters on my team. While I'm pretty cool with these four, it's kind of making me realize how many of the better characters there are in some of the other scenarios. My selection of characters is hardly ideal at the moment. I have no decent Red or Yellow Innate Mages, and frankly I have no real options for Yellow innate overall. I have one decent melee fighter that isn't Serge, no good Black Innate with the slight exception of Luccia but even she's kind of mediocre compared to the power trio of Lynx, Harle, and Grobyc. I have way too many Blue Innate and most of them are average at best compared to heavy hitters Fargo and Irenes who are still away off from joining. I finally have a Green Innate and they are pretty awesome, but she's hardly the best of her class sadly. It's like the game front-loaded most of the average novelty characters into the first half. I'm getting excited to become Lynx so I can finally start recruiting characters I like and are actually relevant to the plot.

[Forsaken Lover]

I'm curious WK, who is your favorite character in this game in terms of character(Not gameplay or whatever)


In any event, I have attained victory at last. I just want to give myself a little pat on he back for figuring out the "Elemental Code." When I first played CC I just looked it up but this time I paid very close attention. The order of the guardian bosses in Terra Tower, the order in which the Dragon God attacks and the order of its forms all go:
Yellow > Red > Green > Blue > Black > White

And this was it. So I'm happy I figured that out, although I won't disagree with people when they say this is all pretty BS and first time players won't have a clue.

But man...the Time Devourer in this mod. My dream team was Serge, Irenes and Leah. If the Time Devourer starts with Tornado or Carnivore, you die. End of story. Even with Diminish its Omega attacks do 700+ damage. OmegaGreen hitting Leah without Diminish does over a 1000 damage. You have to pray it uses weaker single attacks. It's also obscenely fast.

After a lot of trial and error, I figured out the strategy to victory. As i said, Blue Innate is Best Innate. Put two Dreamer Scarves on Serge, use two Level 3 Attacks to build up to Elemental Level 8. Then Irenes puts Vigora on him. Immediately after the Time Devourer kills poor Leah, have Serge use Level 1 Elements of every type. smurf me if I know how you're supposed to win this fight any other way. Do you still gain Star Ranks in New GamePlus? Like I can just keep building Serge's stats and stuff in the next playthrough until he has 999 HP and whatnot? That's about the only way I can think of beating this monster.

But yeah...it's over! Nearly 80 hours and all of it thoroughly enjoyable. I gotta tell you, this game's battle system is probably my favorite in any JRPG. After playing XDenogears, it's really night-and-day in terms of enjoying the combat. The dungeons are also of course way better(and have actual music).

CC's ending is as rushed as ever but I still find the part with the Chrono Cross freeing Schala to be quite beautiful. I just wish the game had built up to this more. The reason a lot of people say you can play Cross with zero knowledge of Trigger is because the Schala stuff is just so last minute. A lot of the CT connections are sparse or last minute. A lot - maybe even the majority - of CC's plot functions perfectly well with not having played Trigger. Bringing it back to Xenogears for a second, the ending with Schala really has the "timeless romance" idea of Fei and Elly but now with Serge and Schala. But it wasn't really built up over the entire game so as sweet as it is, and as much as I love Serge/Kid, it could have been done better.

But, in spite of my second run having me discover new gripes, I still love this game. It's nowhere near perfect but the foaming hatred for it will never make sense to me.

Now to begin my second run of Chrono Trigger. I'll be playing the SNES version this time because there's a difficulty mod for it.

EDIT:

There are also apparently superbosses somewhere but I never found them in either playthrough. I'll probably leave them be for now. 80 hours is about my limit for a game, even ones I like a lot.


Edit:

Crono is the worst boyfriend ever. His first meeting with Marle and what does he do? Drag her off to fight a robot a billion times so he can bo buya nice new sword and armor for himself!

At least I looked t up and found the $4000 isn't worth it and you can go get a much cheaper but still good sword and armor from...Porre?! Well smurf, burn the place down, Crono! Save the future!

But yeah I got my nice new Steel Saber and Bronze Mail so hopefully that will help me on my hard mod journey. I'm also playing on Wait because I'm not that good.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm curious WK, who is your favorite character in this game in terms of character(Not gameplay or whatever)

If I'm going to be honest, no one really. CC's cast has never grabbed me like other RPGs and I'm fairly indifferent to most of the cast. With a bit of reflection, I like Harle cause I find her fun and she's got a cute personality. I like Glenn, Karsh, and Raidan for their parts in the Masemune story, but I'm not exactly invested in them as people, it's just my favorite scenario in the game. Pierre makes me laugh, and I have a soft spot for Lenna since I like the fact her Another World version is a bit softer compared to Serge's version. I also have a soft spot for Guile since he used to be Magus and I love the to still pretend Magus did end up being some stage magician. I like Skelly's quest, even if he's a lousy party member, and I like Norris.

With that said, I'm largely indifferent to the cast outside of gameplay parameters. None of them really made me care for them, and it's honestly trying to unravel the mystery of the island and why Serge is important that keeps me invested in the plot. Despite playing the game several times, I only ever remember the parts that deal with the main plot concerning Serge, Kid, and Lynx; as well as the Masemune. The rest of the story which usually involves the other characters, never retains in my memory cause I simply don't care enough.

But yeah...it's over! Nearly 80 hours and all of it thoroughly enjoyable. I gotta tell you, this game's battle system is probably my favorite in any JRPG. After playing XDenogears, it's really night-and-day in terms of enjoying the combat. The dungeons are also of course way better(and have actual music).

I don't think I will ever understand your love for this battle system. Combat is such a drag for me in this game and I would probably be farther into the game if I didn't keep distracting myself with the manga/graphic novels I'm reading during the gameplay portions. With that said, I will agree that the dungeons are fun when combat isn't excessive.

CC's ending is as rushed as ever but I still find the part with the Chrono Cross freeing Schala to be quite beautiful. I just wish the game had built up to this more. The reason a lot of people say you can play Cross with zero knowledge of Trigger is because the Schala stuff is just so last minute. A lot of the CT connections are sparse or last minute. A lot - maybe even the majority - of CC's plot functions perfectly well with not having played Trigger. Bringing it back to Xenogears for a second, the ending with Schala really has the "timeless romance" idea of Fei and Elly but now with Serge and Schala. But it wasn't really built up over the entire game so as sweet as it is, and as much as I love Serge/Kid, it could have been done better.

CC still has a pretty good ending, I think my issue with Serge and Kid's relationship is that it does feel forced and since you have the option to ignore her, it feels out of place due to choices. Strangled by the Red String indeed.

There are also apparently superbosses somewhere but I never found them in either playthrough. I'll probably leave them be for now. 80 hours is about my limit for a game, even ones I like a lot.

Dario is considered one of them, but the more traditional, one is the weird boss you can fight on the Yellow Dragon's isle. He's interesting cause his fight involves answering questions and there is no story justification for him whatsoever.

[Wolf Kanno]

Finished Mt. Pyre, which is a weird and annoying dungeon. The annoying part is the treasure chests in the lava that you have to open before using the Water Dragon's Ice Breath or they can't be reached anymore. Had to reset the game to fix that issue and I'm pretty sure I do this every freaking playthrough.

The weird part is just the odd boss gauntlets in this place. I mean Solt and Peppor are understandable since they're a tutorial, and I must say they are some of the game's more fun characters. The awkward part was getting challenged by the Fire/Red Dragon out of nowhere and then being immediately attacked by the three Devas. I just kind of feel like this could have been spaced out a bit better, especially since this place is kind of small.

On the flip side, I've been playing around with my token summon to retrieve materials for Rainbow weapons. I'm going to try to be a bit more open minded about them and trap elements. I also reached Star Level 15, meaning I've gained most of my party's Lv. 2 Techs! Except for Nikki, cause he's a smurfing prima donna and doesn't get his for another four Star Levels apparently...

Next up is Ft. Dragonia and some serious gaming and story shenanigans.

[Forsaken Lover]

I thinkwe just come from two different worlds. You thought Persona 2 had a good battle system, didn't you? I don't think I know anybody but you and Fynn who feels that way.

Chrono Cross' battle system is involved and more strategic than most turn-based battle systems, especially before melee rules supreme. Monitoring field effect so you gain the most out of your Elements/take the least damage from enemy Elements, measuring Stamina so you use certain attacks from characters at certain points, perhaps starting a Combo with Character A then heading to Character C to attack some more so Character A gets all their Stamina back, factoring in Innates instead of just typical "Character A has these stats and Character B has these stats" - all this and more is why I love CC's battle system.

Also if you need Shiny materials, there is also this strategy:
https://chaos2.org/ff/cc/shiny.shtml

The Elemental Charms aren't as special as I thought and can all be easily stolen. Angel Charms and thus Shiny Salts are the hardest to come by since only an enemy in Terra Tower drops them. But you'll find one Angel Charm in Dragonia as I recall plus there's the Energizer Suit in one of the Hermit Hideaways which can also be Disassembled for a Shiny Salt.



So my playthrough of Trigger is coming along. I was found not guilty this time for all the good it did me. Also I just realized that it was Melchior I tried to sell Marle's Pendant too and it's because he asked for it. I never thought about the significance of this last time.

The music in this game is pretty great, especially the World Map Music for...1000AD is
the Home Era of our hero I think?

I'm really bad at the timeline. Like, I think Chrono Cross takes place only a few years after CT's "main" time?

[Wolf Kanno]

I think we just come from two different worlds. You thought Persona 2 had a good battle system, didn't you? I don't think I know anybody but you and Fynn who feels that way.

I honestly don't know too many people who dislike P2's battle system.

Chrono Cross' battle system is involved and more strategic than most turn-based battle systems, especially before melee rules supreme. Monitoring field effect so you gain the most out of your Elements/take the least damage from enemy Elements, measuring Stamina so you use certain attacks from characters at certain points, perhaps starting a Combo with Character A then heading to Character C to attack some more so Character A gets all their Stamina back, factoring in Innates instead of just typical "Character A has these stats and Character B has these stats" - all this and more is why I love CC's battle system.

I agree that the Field Elements add a lot of strategic value, but I often feel it works best defensively. I don't pay too much attention to innate element without looking at stats first. This is especially noticeable in my current playthrough as I can often get better results exploiting elemental weaknesses using a magic build character using the element than constantly shuffling around my team. There are also just some elements where I don't feel there are any exceptional members of it, specifically Red and Yellow. I mean honestly, if characters like Kid, Fargo, and Mel didn't have useful techs, I would never use them. Lenna has some very useful techs, but her stats are middling so I will likely drop her for another character. If I had played as I usually did and got Guile and Glenn, I would never let them leave my party except when the game forces me to because their better stats and combat focus trump any advantage the Innate element mechanics give. It's a large part of my dislike of the system because I find most of it superfluous. A smaller cast with more role based focus in their stats and skills would have made this game more fun for me.

The Stamina recovery element would be more practical if they were more extreme. As it stands, I can easily have all three party members do one of each physical attack and end with a magic attack/tech skill and easily cycle through the whole party. The stamina mechanic and element mechanic would have been more interesting if higher tier elements required Stamina use like melee does, forcing you to have to have to rely on one or the other mechanic. As it stands, I can largely get my cake and eat it too with my party averaging four attacks per character. It's only when I steal that things change and even then it just slows down regular battles. Like most JRPG's with convoluted but easily exploited systems, boss battles are about the only place where the mechanics shine but the random battles are a chore. This is where I can appreciate Xenogears simple brain dead regular battles cause at least they are over quickly and I can move on. Cross' battles require too much focus but are hardly interesting which makes the gameplay a chore for me. Not helping is how the leveling system itself largely discourages grinding outside of materials for smithing, it's almost like the game is telling me to run from battles and go out of my way to avoid combat as much as possible and it all just feels counter-intuitive to me in terms of what a game should be.

It's hardly the worst system but it's all so sloppy and I feel the sheer amount of mechanics are there to distract players on how simple and straightforward the gameplay really is.

Also if you need Shiny materials, there is also this strategy:
https://chaos2.org/ff/cc/shiny.shtml

Ooh, that will come in handy, thanks.

The Elemental Charms aren't as special as I thought and can all be easily stolen. Angel Charms and thus Shiny Salts are the hardest to come by since only an enemy in Terra Tower drops them. But you'll find one Angel Charm in Dragonia as I recall plus there's the Energizer Suit in one of the Hermit Hideaways which can also be Disassembled for a Shiny Salt.

I'm not too concerned with outfitting everyone. I usually only make three of each Mail type and only make the weapons of characters I plan to use, so that saves me some time and money.

So my playthrough of Trigger is coming along. I was found not guilty this time for all the good it did me. Also I just realized that it was Melchior I tried to sell Marle's Pendant too and it's because he asked for it. I never thought about the significance of this last time.

Oh yeah, you run into a lot of call forwards if you pay attention. If you go to the shop in Crono's village and one of the boating docks, you'll learn about the missing shop keeper's son you can rescue later when you're escaping the prison. I still feel the Millennial Fair/Crono Trial is one of the most clever parts of the game

The music in this game is pretty great, especially the World Map Music for...1000AD is
the Home Era of our hero I think?

Actually it's Schala's Another World era. Serge's timeline is the rogue timeline trying to overwrite the main one.

I'm really bad at the timeline. Like, I think Chrono Cross takes place only a few years after CT's "main" time?

Cross takes place in the year 1020AD. Twenty years after the events of CT. The timeline is divided in 1010AD when Kid would time travel back from 1020 AD and save him from drowning. Granted, CC is kind of fuzzy about how this dimensional split exists when it also basically says that any time a time travel changes history, it causes the old timeline to enter a garbage dump of other timelines. Though I guess the Time Crash and/or the presence of the Frozen Flame somehow allows for these alternate timelines to still exist parallel to the main one.