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Thread: Replaying Chrono Cross

  1. #1

    Default Replaying Chrono Cross

    So I was kind of monopolizing the Favorite Cross Characters thread and that isn't cool. I'll just make my own topic for my second run.

    This is in response to WK....

    Yeah I think you told me about that Miguel = Chrono theory back when I first played C. Of course, I don't recall Chrono having a Holy Dragon Sword. And Serge actually has Luminare. Hm.

    But speaking of Miguel, I am about to enter the Dead Sea. Wish me luck.

    I went over to Nikki's ship as cats to see him talking to Irenes, spied on Fargo as cats to see him looking at Zelbess' mirror, I talked to Nikki before leaving the Zelbess... That is everything to make sure I can finish the sidequest, right? Now I just proceed with the plot?

    Also I'm really wondering if i want to use Sprigg. She has like one good monster right now. Does she learn Dopplegangers from being in the party or is it just anyone you fight and defeat?

    I also have Draggy, yay! He's so adorable. He succeeds where Poshul failed. Everyone loves him, for starters.

    EDIT:

    I never really stopped to think about it before but Funguy's and Van's reason for joining the party is because our heroes are after the Frozen Flame. Only...they're not? I'm not even sure what Lynx-Serge's motives are right now. He was told to head to the Sea of Eden so maybe that's his goal? Or is it to get back to Another World? There's also trying to figure out what happened to Viper, the Dragoons, etc..

    But searching fro the Frozen Flame? Not really a goal at present.

    EDIT 2:

    I went to recruit Starrky but I want to trap Ultra Nova and I don't have a trap for it yet so I guess he'll have to wait.. And Miguel has Holy Light too, right which you can also trap. Sadly, even if they were purchasable in the regular game, they aren't here. I just have to hope I stumble upon one of them.

    EDIT 3:

    Okay, I kinda lied. Wasn't ready to enter the Dead Sea yet. I remembered the Garai fight, just didn't remember it was now. That is another reason I'm doing this replay - my memory of this game is very fragmented. I remember broadly what happens but details and order of events elude me.

    But anyway, Garai. He hits like a smurfin' truck. Lynx is the champion and does like 200 per Level 3 Attack but he also gets chewed up by Garai and can barely survive any of Garai's Elemental attacks, even with Diminish. The fight was Lynx doing damage, Radius and Janice trying to keep everyone alive. I hadn't planned on using Radius but it felt appropriate for plot reasons. Plus he has good stats all-around.

    But man, now I'm paying attention to stats, Lynx hideously outperforms everyone in Strength and HP. Only Draggy comes close in terms of HP. His magic is only a bit better than Irenes and she has better Agility so that's something i guess. I was thinking about using Irenes, mainly as a healer. But her HP sucks. Maybe give her the Kung Fu Shoes and she can become an evade machine.
    Last edited by Forsaken Lover; 03-12-2018 at 02:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    So I was kind of monopolizing the Favorite Cross Characters thread and that isn't cool. I'll just make my own topic for my second run.

    This is in response to WK....

    Yeah I think you told me about that Miguel = Chrono theory back when I first played C. Of course, I don't recall Chrono having a Holy Dragon Sword. And Serge actually has Luminare. Hm.

    But speaking of Miguel, I am about to enter the Dead Sea. Wish me luck.
    Good luck with the real final boss of the game unless one insists on fighting Dario.

    I went over to Nikki's ship as cats to see him talking to Irenes, spied on Fargo as cats to see him looking at Zelbess' mirror, I talked to Nikki before leaving the Zelbess... That is everything to make sure I can finish the sidequest, right? Now I just proceed with the plot?
    I think so? It's been years since I've played but this discussion has me in the mood to do a new playthrough since it's been so long.

    Also I'm really wondering if i want to use Sprigg. She has like one good monster right now. Does she learn Dopplegangers from being in the party or is it just anyone you fight and defeat?
    If you have the Forget-Me-Not Pot equipped, any enemies killed by that character can be Doppleganged by Sprigg. Not sure if this new mod changed things and let you have access to it early, but in the Bend of Time on NG+ you can enter the locked door and fight Ozzie, Flea, and Slash from CT, all of whom can be Dopplganged by Sprigg and is required for the only Triple Tech Serge has with Kid.

    I also have Draggy, yay! He's so adorable. He succeeds where Poshul failed. Everyone loves him, for starters.
    I don't think I've ever used him oddly enough, maybe once before switching back to my old team.

    I never really stopped to think about it before but Funguy's and Van's reason for joining the party is because our heroes are after the Frozen Flame. Only...they're not? I'm not even sure what Lynx-Serge's motives are right now. He was told to head to the Sea of Eden so maybe that's his goal? Or is it to get back to Another World? There's also trying to figure out what happened to Viper, the Dragoons, etc..

    But searching fro the Frozen Flame? Not really a goal at present.
    Yeah, I imagine Serge's goal at this moment is getting back his body and trying to figure out why the universe hates him so much.

    I went to recruit Starrky but I want to trap Ultra Nova and I don't have a trap for it yet so I guess he'll have to wait.. And Miguel has Holy Light too, right which you can also trap. Sadly, even if they were purchasable in the regular game, they aren't here. I just have to hope I stumble upon one of them.
    Unless they were changed, you'll find the Traps for both spells in Marbule (Another World) for sale in the Kid Bro Shop.


    Okay, I kinda lied. Wasn't ready to enter the Dead Sea yet. I remembered the Garai fight, just didn't remember it was now. That is another reason I'm doing this replay - my memory of this game is very fragmented. I remember broadly what happens but details and order of events elude me.

    But anyway, Garai. He hits like a smurfin' truck. Lynx is the champion and does like 200 per Level 3 Attack but he also gets chewed up by Garai and can barely survive any of Garai's Elemental attacks, even with Diminish. The fight was Lynx doing damage, Radius and Janice trying to keep everyone alive. I hadn't planned on using Radius but it felt appropriate for plot reasons. Plus he has good stats all-around.

    But man, now I'm paying attention to stats, Lynx hideously outperforms everyone in Strength and HP. Only Draggy comes close in terms of HP. His magic is only a bit better than Irenes and she has better Agility so that's something i guess. I was thinking about using Irenes, mainly as a healer. But her HP sucks. Maybe give her the Kung Fu Shoes and she can become an evade machine.
    I will say that the one thing this game has in common with Xenogears gameplay style is the whole "easy dungeon, difficult bosses" trope in full swing. I do vaguely remember my last attempt at a playthrough I got to Ft. Dragonia and was blasting through the regular monsters so badly that combat was getting tedious, only to get curbstomped by the Sun Boss Guardian. Ah memories.

  3. #3

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    So you need this Forget Me Not Item in order to guarantee she learns a new transformation?

    And you're saying that if Sprigg transforms into Ozzie, Slash or Flea, she can perform a Triple Tech with Serge and Kid?

    The only multi tech I ever did in CC was Serge's and Glenn's X Slash or whatever it was called. I know there aren't as many in this game as there was in CT, not even close. It is one of the few areas I think CC lags behind CT in terms of gameplay. But I mean, what are the odds anyone would stumble upon that particular Triple Tech?

  4. #4
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    There's only like two triple techs in the game and both are actually just Cross versions of two popular techs from Trigger. The first one requires Serge, Leena, and Razzly which is funny enough the more difficult one to acquire since Razzly can be killed even if you're on the right path; and Leena needs her final tech which requires that you said the right things in the beginning of the game, as well as acquiring Razzly's innate that also is a giant guide dang it.. This triple tech is actual Delta Force (Crono, Marle, and Lucca's Triple Tech) whereas the other one requires Serge, Kid, and Sprigg transformed into Slash. This move is Z-Slash and is similar to the triple tech used by Crono, Frog, and Robo.

    It still boggles my mind that the game has over forty characters but only eleven combination attacks, two of which are the triples.

  5. #5

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    I beat Miguel on my second try! Party was Lynx, Irenes and Draggy. I have a single Diminish on Draggy and wouldn't you know it, Miguel started the first battle off with Antiblack on Draggy. I should have had the Demon Charm on him but oh well. I'll remember that for next time. I just started over and once Diminish is in play, the fight is rather simple. He has a very set pattern. I know a guy who said he found Garai the more challenging boss and I can see why since Garai loves to combo physical attacks and you can't really do anything about them since Lynx is your damage dealer for that fight so you can't just keep him Defending all match. But here my trusty strategy of Eagle Eye + Lynx using Level 3 Attacks over and over again was more than enough to destroy Miguel in pretty quick order. And of course Irenes and Draggy spent all match just healing or buffing.

    But yeah, Holy Dragon Sword on Lynx without Diminish did over 700 damage in this. Diminish is going to be vital from here on out.

    In more plot-related news, long before I played CC and also still after I played it, I heard people say the characters of Chrono Cross have no personality; they're just a series of accents. I rejected this idea and I still do but it is a bit...off-putting to have Draggy talk about the Dead Sea. "A conglomerrrrtion of buildings"? When the hell did Draggy learn that word?


    I imagine it must be peculiar to have any of the sillier characters involved in the more dramatic parts of the plot. But Draggy isn't Mojo or Funguy, I wanted to use him because he is kinda well-suited to the main plot, ya know?

  6. #6
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Yeah the wacky and eccentric cast are a bit off putting to the main scenario.

  7. #7

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    A couple things I've noticed in terms of gameplay and somebody confirmed these are bugs:

    1. Diminish never wears off. I thought maybe it just lasted a ridiculously long time but, nope, it's permanent even though the description says temporary.

    2. If you input commands fast enough, you get more turns than you should. I had noticed that if I mashed the Attack button I'd get in another attack but if I held off the enemy got their turn.

    All this adds up to why melee really does reign supreme by the mid game. Shame but I still love this combat system. There's more involvement to it than an FF game at least.

    I just got Grobyc and am about to go to Hermit's Hideaway. I think this is about when the flood of party members starts.

    Also I liked that I met Guile in the Termina tavern but he refused to join me. He asked me to understand and that was it. Understand what, pal? You didn't give me an actual reason why you won't rejoin my party right now. He was right there too when it all went down at the top of Fort Dragonia. We've been through so much together....

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    He just doesn't want a Lynx to cramp his magic style. I mean he spent all of Chrono Trigger with a passive aggressive Frog man he made, a cave woman, some brats from the nowhere age, and a giant can opener. Magu...er Guile knows what's going to transpire here.

    Yeah, magic just doesn't quite pack the same punch by endgame unless you have some of the + versions and you're really exploiting the elemental field and weakness element of the game. I often felt magic was more useful by endgame for defensive purposes like making sure the Dragons don't get their full elemental freak show going so I would cast a spell to keep the field from going full colored. Not to mention once you can start making the Prism versions of weapons or heaven help you get the Double Einzhanders and the Mastermune, it's really hard to justify worrying about your elements outside of the Dragon battles and the final battle. At least it pulls and FFVIII and keeps support magic viable until the very end.

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    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Just discovered this artist, and felt it was appropriate for this thread.



  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Just discovered this artist, and felt it was appropriate for this thread.


    I just found that yesterday, too! It's so good.

    I've been rolling with Marcy in my party, she's surprisingly good at just about everything. Plus she is Blue so she has CureAll which, as far as I can tell, is the best party heal spell in the game. Heals for 400+ HP.

    I'm missing people though. Characters I got last time. Maybe Pip only shows up again when you are Serge....? I let him out at the start of the game.

    I tried to get Serge's body back first thing this time around since when I first played the game I went around fighting the Dragons. But the game is like NOPE. You gotta do that before you get your body back. I guess it works for proper dramatic purposes.

    Speaking of drama, the Marbule Concert and retaking Marbule was beautiful. I loved thatthey kept the music playing while we did all the fighting. I didn't expect a Rock Opera. Why don't people ever talk about this like the Opera Scene? The game really went all out with the Playstation graphics and ability at storytelling.

  11. #11
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Yeah Serge doesn't get his human form until nearly the end of the game.

    Depending on the characters missing, it may be likely that they only join if you make certain choices in the game like helping Kid or not. Other than that, it's more likely that you need to be Serge or have a specific party member in your group when you talk to them.

    As for Marbule being left in the dark compared to the Opera Scene from FFVI due to the following reasons:

    A. Not as many people played Chrono Cross compared to FFVI
    B. The Opera Sequence was an interactive cutscene in an era where such things were unheard of, as opposed to the Marbule concert being a scene followed by a dungeon, which is pretty basic fare for the genre.
    C. I'm sure most players missed the scene on a first playthrough (I know I did) due to the sequence being incredibly easy to miss. I also don't know how often people replay games or take advantage of NG+, so chances are most people are not even aware the scene exists.

    Your thread combined with my own waxing on the subject last year, has made me interested in doing a new playthrough of CC cause it's frankly been ages since my last time through. I may dive into CT before that cause I kind of want to refresh my memory on the new content released in the DS version, but NG+ will make this task super easy as well as being portable.

  12. #12

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    Well I hope you end up enjoying yourself and feel free to write about your thoughts as you go along. I'd like to read them.



    Ya know, given all the characters in this game, I couldn't help but wonder who were technically the best. I've Googled Chrono Cross Character Tiers and Chrono Cross Character Rankings and stuff like that.

    I swear I've heard Riddel is the best mage in the game but I dunno. I likes Irenes. She has good magic and better everything else than Riddel. Maybe it's because I've been using her? I dunno, Riddel just doesn't interest me so I don't think I'll ever use her.

    Just about to tackle the Sky Dragon. People weren't kidding when they said teh Black Dragon is way harder than the others. I missed it my first playthrough as I noted earlier and he was the first Dragon I fought. He destroyed me. I barely beat him after the Green Dragon. So far, only Black and Red have proven real challenges. The others were pretty easy.

  13. #13
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Black is a beast, generally any enemy that is Black Innate tends to be really powerful in this game, same with White Innate. Yellow always seemed to be the low man on the totem pole in terms of elements as I don't remember the Yellow Dragon being much of an issue and it is hard to think of a strong innate Yellow character in your team that's on par with the actual bad ass party members.

    Riddel is probably considered the best cause all three of her Techs are pretty great, Lv. 3 heals and restores status for the whole team, Lv. 5 boosts the whole teams defense by 20% and Magic Defense by 25%, and her final one let's her reuse any element she's already used in battle. Throw in the fact she's got the highest Magical Attack power of the cast and her Fierce attack is a group hitting ability, she's honestly a bit more ideal than a few other characters if you want to bother with a mage character. Her only downside is her glass cannon status as a mage. Granted, I feel Irenes is fine as well, though I tend to favor Guile as my mage character.

    Well I took the plunge and started a new game of CC as well since it's been ages and I've been channeling the need for some Chrono love in the last few months. Also, since I'm playing this on my PS3, this is a fresh file and I'm thinking of mixing it up a bit in my story choices.

    In my dreams sequences, I got Razzly, so I'm thinking I may go the Save Kid route despite knowing how awesome Glenn is, but I've decided that I'm going to stray from my usual habits and forgo getting Guile and Glenn this file cause it will mean I'm actually going to have to really use the cast this time since my default team won't be available. That, and I haven't seen some of the scenarios in ages cause once I learned how to get Glenn I've always gone that route, not helped by my dislike of Korcha in the Save Kid route. So I wonder if I should go with Nikki or Pierre to get into the mansion?

    I've reached Another World, I didn't get too far last night cause I started late. I've decided that Poshul is the reincarnation of Chu-Chu from Xenogears, which seems fitting since Lucca most assuredly died in Lahan and this is her vengeful spirit on the Chronoverse. She's not bad, but not great. Definitely feels like a character you're grateful to have in the beginning for the sake of actually having people, but then you quickly ditch once you have better people.

    Still not wild about the battle system, it's kind of slow and it can be annoying when enemies interrupt your combos. I still feel like the Elements could have been done better, but I'll wait to see how I feel once I'm a ways in.

    In terms of Audio and Visual though, CC is still one of the best games Square made in the PS1 era. The game also does that "camera zooms around the battle field before battle/loading screen" like FFIX, but it's shorter, doesn't actually feel like a loading screen and the locales are gorgeous with incredible detail. If only Hurricane was a better track, though it does have some interesting musical callbacks to CT's battle themes.

    I think what is kind of interesting about CC so far is that barring the action packed prologue, the opening of the game mirrors the opening of CT in subtle ways like Serge waking up when his mom calls, his house has curtains that can be opened and closed, and the family has a pet cat. Both Crono and Serge begin their journey oversleeping and missing an important appointment with a childhood friend, and both end up having to wait around and kill time with menial mini-game like tasks before they can meet their friend and the weird trout kicks in. Sadly, fighting Gato to figure out the combat system is more fun than getting my ass handed to me by Radius but them the breaks. At least CC gets you into the action early whereas CT takes its sweet time.

    Similarly, Arni has a similar vibe to Lahan, being a tranquil fishing village as opposed to a peaceful mountain village, but they have similar vibes to them. Probably cause Kato actually wrote the Lahan section of Xenogears. I think the other aspect that makes them similar is that everyone in this village feels like a philosopher when you talk to them and more than a few NPCs say some cryptic trout that heavily foreshadows elements within the plot. I was noticing as I listened to the OST as well how many musical pieces CC borrows from Xenogears as well.

    Anyway, I'm probably going to turn down Kid the first time in order to recruit Leena. Not sure about Nikki or Pierre yet...

  14. #14

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    I glanced at Pierre's route when I startedthe game and when you get turned away at the gates you have the option of just fighting the guards and presumably storming in. So it's quick and sweet but maybe there's more to it like if you try to come up with a plan. People have told me it's amusing so there must be more to it.

    But like you said earlier, Nikki's route has the most Plot so it's probably the best i guess.

    I like when you turn Kid down the game is like "we can't believe you are troutting all over this girl who just saved your life." You have to refuse her no less than THREE times. I felt so guilty. I love Kid.

    I've said it since I first played Cross but it feels like it's more a love letter to Xenogears than a sequel to Chrono Trigger. Kato was very clearly influenced by his time on teh XG writing team and CC takes after Gears' tone far more than Trigger's. Add in stuff like Demihumans and racism and multiple heavy-handed handed themes all swirling around an Existentialist Plot and you have Xenogears 2.0 more than Chrono Trigger 2.


    And Riddel certainly does seem to have some great Techs, I'll give her that.

  15. #15
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    Cross is a sequel for fans of Trigger who grew up and needed a meatier version of the Chronoverse, which is likely why I liked it. Though I won't deny that working on Xenogears certainly had an effect on Kato.

    So against my better judgement I chose to go with Nikki cause I've only done his quest once and that was my first playthrough way back in 2000. So my memory was pretty fuzzy about the whole deal. I've come to the conclusion that Nikki might be the worst choice of the trio in gameplay terms. Not only is his quest the most annoying of the three but frankly, Nikki sucks as a party member. Low accuracy, worse damage, and he's not even a great mage compared to Leena who herself isn't even top tier in that department. His attitude also kind of sucks as well since he really cranks up the prima donna aspect more than Pierre who is at least smacked around in the plot for his hubris for comic effect.
    Exactly. So I rescued the "Star" traipsed through an obnoxious swamp into an even more annoying cave and finally reached the mansion. I've collected Kid, Poshul, Leena, Mojo, and Nikki so far. Viper Manor is at least entertaining, but I wish Nikki was a more useful party member, which you would think he would be since most of the enemies are Red Innate and he's Blue, but it's really working the other way around here. On the brightside, I've been getting a ton of awesome White Elements for Serge and I've collected several useful materials for weapon/armor crafting once I get out of here.

    I kind of forgot how pushy Kid is as well, and how quick she is to fighting her way out of a situation. Not to mention I forgot that she has some obsession with treasure that makes her do stupid things like the obvious trap that gets you into Luccia's lab. Thankfully she's a good party member and Pilfer is a great ability, but I'm starting to remember why I preferred Harle.

    I'm starting to think I may go back on my word about choosing the Save Kid route, not because I need Glenn, but more because my bad vibe concerning choosing Nikki will likely come back when I have to deal with Korcha. I'm starting to remember that my one gripe during my first playthrough was the lack of decent party members only to discover it was because I simply kept making bad choices in my first playthrough. With the exception of the ending, altruism usually gets you the short end of the stick in this game.

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