Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 21 of 21

Thread: Say what you willl . . .

  1. #16
    Let's get ready to bumble Vincent, Thunder God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,243
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder God View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
    Well, don't ignore that the opinions might actually be valid.

    A lot of people started with VII. VIII was not as good as it. IX was worse still. X took a breather and was a better game than its predecessor. X-2 was largely despised. XI was not even the right type of game. XII was worse than IX. XIII was worse still. XIII-2 took the series further down. XIII-3 still further. XIV decided to not even be a Final Fantasy again. And XV was a car driving simulator.

    So, it's not that it's some cycle of just hating on the most recent game. It's that Final Fantasy has been steadily getting worse and worse and worse.
    I can actually agree with most of that except for IX being bad and X being better than it.
    IX really needs an HD port, to be honest. Even at the time of release, it's graphics didn't look great. It pushed the PS1 way too hard, even with the stylized aesthetic.

    There's also a lot of aspects of it that irk me, personally. I'm not a fan of several of the character designs (although personalities and story moments tend to be great), I despise some of the mechanics (Trance especially). And I absolutely loathe and hate the game for putting a unique reward in the game that you can only get by speedrunning it and skipping out on everything good about the series. RPGs exist to immerse yourself in the world, explore, watch events, and talk to people. Not to rush through.
    I didn't know about the speedrun weapon until just the last few years, but I would never play through the game that way anyway - it's just an optional secret there for those who do want to try a speedrun. I can see what you mean about the graphics in the original PS1 version but I believe the recent PC/PS4 port has improved the graphics (haven't tried it yet). As for the mechanics they didn't really bother me. I enjoyed the world of the game because it was quite unique in the series, the OST was great and I thought the story was pretty good. I've never actually finished it though - got close to the end and then never completed it (similar to VII).

    EDIT: Lol, the VIII thread has become a IX thread.

  2. #17
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tower of the Swallow
    Posts
    17,375
    Articles
    56
    Blog Entries
    16

    FFXIV Character

    A'nutoh Tia (Sargatanas)
    Contributions
    • Former Editor
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    So my views on the series are pretty much the exact opposite of Skybladeís, today I learned


    FFVIII is goofy but thatís okay. It knows far better what it is than FFVII ever did and the mechanics are actually fun to mess around with this time around. When I had my marathon, I was surprised with how much fun I was having with FFVIII, despite the fact that i never had fond memories of it before. Now I like it a lot and think itís much better than VII, though one thing I did always enjoy was Squall, whom I still love and co spider the best protagonist in mainline FF - thatís how you write a character thatís both dynamic and relatable. One thing I enjoyed considerably less than the first time was the music, which I think is the worst in the numbered series, though I know a lot of people disagree

  3. #18
    Skyblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Earth, approximately
    Posts
    10,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    So my views on the series are pretty much the exact opposite of Skybladeís, today I learned


    FFVIII is goofy but thatís okay. It knows far better what it is than FFVII ever did and the mechanics are actually fun to mess around with this time around. When I had my marathon, I was surprised with how much fun I was having with FFVIII, despite the fact that i never had fond memories of it before. Now I like it a lot and think itís much better than VII, though one thing I did always enjoy was Squall, whom I still love and co spider the best protagonist in mainline FF - thatís how you write a character thatís both dynamic and relatable. One thing I enjoyed considerably less than the first time was the music, which I think is the worst in the numbered series, though I know a lot of people disagree
    FFVIII is definitely one of my favorite games in the mainline series. I absolutely agree with you is that Squall is the best protagonist in mainline Final Fantasy. It had some fantastic plot set pieces, some beautiful character moments, some brilliant sidequests and side characters. The locations were also one of the strong points of the game, with a great variety, excellent designs, and filled with characters who made them feel alive.

    But, while the mechanics may be "fun to mess around with", they were still a mess. It was way too easy to min max, rendered half of your options useless, and had a bunch of other balancing and enjoyment issues. Yes, it could be fun to play around with, but that's true of almost every battle system. I mean, you could even enjoy messing around creating Gambits in XII before you let the game play itself. But I had a lot more fun playing around with the Materia system than I did the Junction system. It easier, more visually appealing, less tedious, and far better balanced. Overall, the system is just...bad. You get punished way too much for using the systems. Magic isn't worth the trade off of stats, and then you have to work to build up the magic you used, and it's just tedious. You play for a bit, then go back to just spamming Attack + R1 on everything.

    And the graphics weren't great. Granted, FFVII didn't have the best graphics either. And I played them both on PC for the first time (only a year after the original release dates for the PlayStation), so I didn't get the original experience. But even with antialiasing and some of the better graphical options, the character models in VIII did not look as smooth as the stylized aesthetic in FFVII.

    The plot was also kind of a mess. It had several issues with narrative flow and pacing, I felt. Those great set pieces weren't always tied well together, and I just feel as though the overall game was not as strong as FFVII was, despite surpassing it in some areas. Sort of like how, despite Persona 4 having some parts that it pulled off better than Persona 3, Persona 3 was still the better game, with a more cohesive message and structure.

    I do really like the game, don't get me wrong. I just don't like it as much. Some of it may be nostalgia, but that mess of a battle system is undoubtedly a contributor as well.
    My friend Delzethin is currently running a GoFundMe account to pay for some extended medical troubles he's had. He's had chronic issues and lifetime troubles that have really crippled his career opportunities, and he's trying to get enough funding to get back to a stable medical situation. If you like his content, please support his GoFundMe, or even just contribute to his Patreon.

    He can really use a hand with this, and any support you can offer is appreciated.

  4. #19
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tower of the Swallow
    Posts
    17,375
    Articles
    56
    Blog Entries
    16

    FFXIV Character

    A'nutoh Tia (Sargatanas)
    Contributions
    • Former Editor
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    Thatís fair, though I was still pretty disillusioned in my marathon when I noticed how much FFVII just completely fell apart after disc one. As silly as FFVIII is, I do appreciate the fact that at least it stays silly throughout and thereís nothing as damning as the huge materia quest happening.

    As for the mechanics, thatís also up to personal preference. Materia felt much more empty to me, with the materia itself gaining AP at such a slow rate that you really had to grind or wait a super long time to get to the more interesting abilities. And then the materia splits into two and itís usually so late in the game that my reaction is a resounding ďso what?Ē On the other hand, Junction was fun to me from the beginning and I wonít deny itís hilariously unbalanced - but itís finding the various ways to exploit it is really what I love the most about it. I also love the fact that, since enemies scale to you, you really have to rely on it to overpower them in the long run.

  5. #20
    Skyblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Earth, approximately
    Posts
    10,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    That’s fair, though I was still pretty disillusioned in my marathon when I noticed how much FFVII just completely fell apart after disc one. As silly as FFVIII is, I do appreciate the fact that at least it stays silly throughout and there’s nothing as damning as the huge materia quest happening.
    I actually think the later discs are relatively well handled. It starts off with a fairly leisurely stroll across the world, chasing Sephiroth. But the story ratchets up the danger and tension really well even early on in the second disc. You're kept on your toes, reacting to events that seem to be constantly spiraling worse and worse.

    Maybe it wouldn't hold up if I went back and replayed it today. I dunno. I haven't played that far in a long time.

    As for the mechanics, that’s also up to personal preference. Materia felt much more empty to me, with the materia itself gaining AP at such a slow rate that you really had to grind or wait a super long time to get to the more interesting abilities. And then the materia splits into two and it’s usually so late in the game that my reaction is a resounding “so what?” On the other hand, Junction was fun to me from the beginning and I won’t deny it’s hilariously unbalanced - but it’s finding the various ways to exploit it is really what I love the most about it. I also love the fact that, since enemies scale to you, you really have to rely on it to overpower them in the long run.
    I agree with you on the problem with slow growth. I think they could have easily cut the required AP to level up Materia in half, if not further, without really affecting game balance. And you're also correct in that the splitting system is nearly worthless, since you start out with the new Materia being fresh. It's basically only useful for long term grinding.

    But all you could really do with Junctioning was change your stats. There were so many combinations and techs you could pull off thanks to the various types of Materia. There weren't a lot of extra commands in FFVIII, and there were no real ability combinations that worked well together. It was the blue and purple Materia that really made that system shine. If it was just "put ability into slot", it would be far more boring. The ability to change what your abilities did and how you used them was a game changer that FFVIII lacked.
    My friend Delzethin is currently running a GoFundMe account to pay for some extended medical troubles he's had. He's had chronic issues and lifetime troubles that have really crippled his career opportunities, and he's trying to get enough funding to get back to a stable medical situation. If you like his content, please support his GoFundMe, or even just contribute to his Patreon.

    He can really use a hand with this, and any support you can offer is appreciated.

  6. #21
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Nowhere and Everywhere
    Posts
    16,649
    Articles
    54
    Blog Entries
    16
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    Not to but in, but I feel the issue I have with VII's materia system is similar to an issue several FFs have which is that it sacrifices challenge for variety. Yes, the Blue and Purple Materia add plenty of customization options but there is honestly very little reason to use most of it. Even Magic Materia is largely filler once you start amassing Enemy Skills which are often more powerful, efficient, and economical in design.

    I mean I don't know too many people who would swear by the Elemental Materia. Potentially, this should be like one of the premier Materia but the damage modifiers as a weapon are nothing to really shout about, magic is often better used for crowd control and even then summons are more efficient, and while there is a lot of potential for defensive purposes, once you leave Midgard you'll start acquiring accessory/armor that already confers elemental defense completely undermining the Materia's usefulness. My real issue here is that a lot of the Blue Materia falls into this camp of sounding useful but then kind of being pointless when you put into account that VII is hardly difficult and there are almost always more practical strategies that are often more efficient.

    Granted, you can screw around and build interesting party configures, but it doesn't really change that most of VII's enemies can be destroyed by simply mashing X or using a summon. Again, I would like to point out that this is not a problem unique to VII, as VI, VIII, and X are all notoriously guilty of this dilemma

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •