SaGa Franchise

**Wolf Kanno** · 05-09-2018, 09:15 AM

Update time:

I didn't get back to Romancing SaGa today so nothing on that.

SaGa 1 - I finally reached Ashura and that fight did not go as planned as he was able to knock out my two Humans within the first two rounds. This left my Monster and Mutant/Esper to deal with him and they put up a good enough fight to win, but the Mutant didn't survive. So my party got ejected from the tower and I'm back to the first floor except now all the NPCs I've helped are around and the shops have been updated with way better gear. I was able to acquire the Nuke, Excalibur, Flare spell and Glass Sword, so I'm pretty confident I can take down the final boss if I can survive reaching him. For now, I need to farm some cash so I can outfit my team with the new stuff. On the brightside, my Mutant finally learned a new spell and actually traded out one of her useless spells for it. I don't think it's a particularly better spell but progress is progress no matter how small.

SaGa Frontier 2 - Continued to grind but finally decided to say "smurf it" and I've plunged into the point of no return. The party has chased the Egg controlled imposter to the northern continent and discovered an unknown megalith. I had to fight some nasty enemies to get there, but it probably would have done better had I not switched out two characters for my backup party that I rarely use. I wish Axe weapons didn't suck so bad in the end-game. On the brightside, I did Spark two abilities I was looking for, so that should help me now that I'm going into boss rush mode.

**Black Magic Shopkeeper** · 05-09-2018, 08:56 PM

Oh man, I forgot there was a Ruined Tokyo bit in Saga1. I should probably replay it if I'm forgetting things like that.

Originally Posted by Rez09

Stuck in the sense you can't reach an exit or in that you cannot defeat the boss? If it is the former, you can lose to Forneus, or any other abyss lord that isn't Byunei on Gwayne's back, and get teleported back to one of the cities (as I recall anyway) and you can dodge most of the running fishmen in his castle by hugging the walls if they were giving you trouble. If the issue is the latter, I'd say to knock off the other three first, as he's the most consistently difficult of the four, especially early on with Squall's silly high chance of changing battlefield element to water and healing off a lot the damage you do to him each turn. You can also try running the Genbu or Tiger's Cave formations when fighting him to cut his damage in half if your damage is high enough and just surviving is the biggest problem, though neither helps with Maelstrom's IK chance.

I went back and tried letting Forneus kill me... and nope, it just booted me to the title screen. But it's ok, I managed to backtrack my way out of the dungeon. Maybe I'll properly resume playing RS3 now that that's out of the way ...For now.

**Rez09** · 05-10-2018, 04:38 AM

Hmmmm, that's interesting -- I know there is some sort of shortcut out of there; I'll have to poke around later and try to figure it out again. Good to hear you got out, though. Out of curiosity, what are you running for a party?

**Black Magic Shopkeeper** · 05-10-2018, 07:25 AM

- Harid (w/ "true" Kamsheen and a good amount of Sun & Earth magic trained up– I'm proud of how I've played him thus far)
- Ellen (REALLY utilizing her Axe skills, though I never put any time into training her martial arts)
- Tatyana (with Water & Moon affinity, though I'm thinking of ditching her for Undine. Currently I have her play Healer with Harid as a backup when things get dicey, and for the most part, it works out well. ...Just not against Forneus.)
- Poet/Bard whatever he is (really put a lot of time into training him Fire magic– playing him more as a support member than anything)
- Robin (using him as he's designed to be used– and he's actually one of my favorite party members)
- Boston (he's kinda new, but he's quickly proven to be a powerful asset)

As it is, I don't think I'm willing to trade out Robin or Boston, but as I said before, Undine looks like a great replacement for Tatyana and I'm willing to find someone else to fill in the all-out brawn slot if they can top Ellen's stats. I think aside from my main (Harid) she's been in the party the longest.
And you can't tell me not to main Harid, if you're considering that. I am incapable of starting over with someone else. He's ... he's... my mans. :<

**Wolf Kanno** · 05-10-2018, 10:25 AM

Done and done!

SaGa 1 is complete. The journey back up the Tower was not nearly as tedious as I thought it would be, and the Hyper I saved made short work of the Four Symbol bosses.The final boss turned out to be a bit more of a difficulty spike than I anticipated, and a bit harder than it should have been so my first attempt ended in failure. I was unaware of a healing pod before the boss fight, so in order to conserve my limited amount of elixirs I had, I had my bad ass monster eat some meat that transformed into a form that was ill-equipped for the battle ahead. Basically a magic-centric monster with low strength and a only elemental spells that the final boss happens to be immune to. X-Calibur also didn't hit nearly as hard as I was hoping, I'm guessing it does elemental damage cause it's damage output was significantly weaker than some lower weapons I had available. The boss just wore me down. In the successful attempt, I had my lead human use the Glass Sword (yes I totally exploited that buggy weapon) and the other human use the Masemune and the Nuke to do some serious damage while my Esper pelted him with Flare. My poor monster was moved to the front to soak up damage and do pathetic damage with Tentacle on the rare occasion it landed. The ending was pretty cool and I loved the highlight reel of the game.

Overall, SaGa 1 is a pretty snazzy game that holds up well. It's short, which I appreciate for my handheld games (See DQIX? you can still be epic and not be a 200 hour time sink) and it's really surreal overall. I almost felt like I was playing a MegaTen title than something out of Square. It balances quirky humor with some disturbing content and it serves as one of those games where I'm surprised it got past the censors gaming had back in the early 90s considering who the final boss is and the amount of death that permeates the game. Pretty neat game, and when I have the extra cash, I'll probably pick up Final Fantasy Legend II so I can finally beat that game that serves as a black mark on my RPG completion rates.

Favorite Race: Monsters
Favorite World: Ruined Tokyo
Favorite NPC: King of Shields and his Monster Wife
Favorite optional room: The one with the dead family.
Favorite Four Symbol Boss: Byakko
Favorite Boss: Either Death Machine's cameo or the Final Boss
Would I recommend it? Hell yeah!

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SaGa Frontier 2 was also completed. I really loved how the final boss was handled and I'm surprised Squenix never bothered utilizing it one of the FFs. So SF2 borrows an idea from Xenogears. The final boss has six minions based on one of the six elements waltzing around the final dungeon. Now you're forced to fight at least two of them (Water and Fire) but the other four are optional. Like Xenogears, not fighting these guys powers up the final boss. The boss gains additional forms depending on which of the bosses you don't fight, dragging out the fight longer than necessary and giving him access to new moves. That part is pretty neat but the other cool factor is that only your reserve party members can fight the optional bosses in duel battles. In a rare act of mercy, the duels can be won in one of two ways, you can either deplete the bosses health like normal, or you can survive fifteen rounds with it before you auto win. Depending on the boss and who you have them fighting, one option is easier than the others.

While I whooped the final boss on my first try, I'll tell you now that I probably would have lost had I not read a few things ahead of time and did some prep work. The final boss easily has one of the nastiest moves in the game called Star Quake. This move hits the whole party for pretty heavy damage unless you have strong magic defense or just a ton of health, but it's real threat comes in the fact it does guaranteed LP damage. LP is a resource used for healing and if a character loses all of it, they are permanently incapacitated for the rest of the chapter. LP cannot be gained and there is only one item that can heal it and only out of battle. Also, the LP on a character is fixed, so you can't increase it. Only two party members have more than 20 LP, the rest are in the mid-teens, meaning that this battle could only last maybe fifteen rounds before my team was too devastated to stand a chance. Now thankfully there are items that protect your character from LP damage but only one of them doesn't come with some kind of catch like how Dead Stones obliterate your Magic Defense. So if I had not known about this, I would probably have lost the battle cause this boss hits hard and he loves using Star Quake. Thankfully his final form trades it for a more conventional super attack I can heal through with Regenerate and timed Life Water spells.

The ending of the Knights family chapter was pretty good and I really enjoyed how it comes full circle a bit with Gustave's story as well. The montage ending was pretty epic and helps really solidify all you accomplished in the game. It even game me some stats:

Arts learned: 115 - I only ever completed Staff weapons, Tree, and Beast Arts and I'm missing about two or three arts per weapon/element except for Martial arts and Bows where I 'm missing more like four or five if you count hybrid arts.
I obtained every combat Role in the game
Saw every scenario (didn't even realize you could miss some of them actually)
I have Rank A in the Commerce Game, which doesn't amount to much cause all the best stuff is locked behind Rank S.
No one seems to know what Enemy A.I. score even means.

Overall, SaGa Frontier 2 was a pleasant surprise but one I kind of had to learn to like for what it rather than what I wanted it to be. SF2 has two different scenarios and the more interesting one is played out more like a historical reenactment as opposed to a drama. It makes the early parts a bit rough to follow but actually plays out well when you get to the second half of the game. The political drama gets some serious brownie points by making the most of the "period of history" concept the game has going for it, as it's able to do some interesting historical narrative stuff you don't normally see in these types of games cause the story never goes beyond the MC.

The Knights story is more conventional RPG but it does get really interesting once it starts to really intertwine with Gustave's plotline. Wil is not a bad dude, but his descendants are all more interesting than him. There are too many characters to really list and choose who were my favorites but I will give special mention to Gustave and Rich.

Gustave is not a typical RPG protagonist and I've got to give him props for being such a conflicting and compelling figure without completely resorting to magical/sci-fi nonsense to make them so like say... Fei Fong Wong or Mr. Cloud Strife. Gustave kind of gets dealt a bad hand and never really gets over it, but does eventually use the complex it gives him to drive him towards so many of his accomplishments and redefining an era. He's not a hero and he's well aware of it, and he often swings back and forth between showcasing the best and worst of a leader. His chapters are always often the most interesting.

Rich was just a treat, I tend to like womanizing roguish characters and Rich was a breath of fresh air after dealing with his boy scout father. It's helped that he's often accompanied by some of the more impressionable party members (though Wil does get Cordelia and Narcisse) and I frankly just liked his story of being the son of a famous man who is trying to run away from his father's reputation so he can become his own person. It's beautifully shown in-game as you don;t even realize he's Wil's son until a few chapters into his story thanks to a bait and switch POV character. I also just liked watching as Rich tries to ignore his family's conflicted history with The Egg and how he eventually realizes too late why Wil is so damn obsessed with it. Frankly, the Egg is shown to be far more antagonistic and freaky in Rich's chapters than it ever was in Wil's.

The gameplay has it's problems, but overall, I enjoyed most of it outside of the steep learning curve in the early game. It wouldn't hurt the game to have a few more explanations on some of it's gameplay concepts though, especially the currency/custom tools shop nonsense cause by the point I realized it existed, I was too far into the game to make any use of it. The music also grew on me, though I still feel Hamazu's battle themes are the best parts and his story themes are often hit or miss. I really loved the art style, and while the sprite work is very cool, it's also jankey in some places. SF2 is sort of the opposite of Wind Waker. Wind Waker looks awful in still photographs but is absolutely fluid and gorgeous in motion, SaGa Frontier 2 looks better when nothing is moving around.

Best Generation: 1
Best Weapons: Swords, Spears, and Staves
Best Magic: Life Water, Regenerate, Delta Petra, Firestorm and Call Thunder.
Favorite Megalith: Insect, just because of all of the cool story parts attached to it.
Dumbest Nobles: The King of Wide and Prince Charles of Jade.
Coolest non-important POV character: Eleanor
Should have gotten more screentime: Patrick, Diane, Marie, Leslie, and the entire Third Generation
Should have been playable: Bart, Flynn, and Leslie
The true final boss: South Moundtop Battle
Whatever happened to...: Flynn, Dirk, Leslie, Marie, and Philippe III?

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So with these two games out of the way, I can start dedicating more time to Romancing SaGa 1. I am debating about hooking up my PS2 and trying my hands on Unlimited SaGa as well, but not sure just yet.

**Black Magic Shopkeeper** · 05-10-2018, 06:33 PM

Congrats on beating the two games! And yeah, SaGa 1 sure has a snazzy premise and an edgy final boss, for being a GBA title and all that.

**Rez09** · 05-10-2018, 08:59 PM

Deessssuuuuuu maaaaachine! A few nasty quirks aside, I love the original SaGa and the amount of ambition that went into making it. Five, effectively, very different worlds to be explored, four different PC types with unique strengths and weaknesses, a pretty solid soundtrack, and relatively fair level of challenge. I also kind of love the final boss' wonderfully meta motivation in the Japanese version of the gamehe's bored and creates the tower and the evils in each world for his own amusement, even keeping score books for how far people managed to get before dying, whiiiiich the party aren't super happy about when they get to the top. It's a fun little twist I'm kind of sad was removed. Honestly the only part of the game I dislike is the very start when you are getting the stuff to open the tower, which always felt super slow and grindy to me.

Also, you should try some Unlimited SaGa, you know you want to. You know I want you to. Plaaaaay it, looooove it.

Originally Posted by Black Magic Shopkeeper

- Harid (w/ "true" Kamsheen and a good amount of Sun & Earth magic trained up– I'm proud of how I've played him thus far)
- Ellen (REALLY utilizing her Axe skills, though I never put any time into training her martial arts)
- Tatyana (with Water & Moon affinity, though I'm thinking of ditching her for Undine. Currently I have her play Healer with Harid as a backup when things get dicey, and for the most part, it works out well. ...Just not against Forneus.)
- Poet/Bard whatever he is (really put a lot of time into training him Fire magic– playing him more as a support member than anything)
- Robin (using him as he's designed to be used– and he's actually one of my favorite party members)
- Boston (he's kinda new, but he's quickly proven to be a powerful asset)

You can finish this game pretty soundly with any team you stick together, the only characters I advise against are Shonen and Sara, so don't feel like you need to replace anyone. Addressing Tatyana vs. Undine, Tat is much less vulnerable to charm, tends to be more sturdy and a better physical attacker, and has innate cold resistance due to her teddy bear; Undine is a vastly superior mage and starts with a Lake Robe and most water magic learned, saving a ton of money and bringing a great mid level armor. I'd say to pick her up over Tat and keep her a pure mage for the crown, as she can run secondary support for the Poet and do a lot of low cost AoE damage, just make sure to do your healing with non-water elemental spells in the Forneus fight. For Ellen replacements, Fairy has the best offensive stat spread in the game by a mile, and comes with the best offensive formation to boot, but she is super squish; Nora is a better Axe/Mace user than Ellen due to her stat spread, and she comes with one of the best defense formations, but she is a lot slower; Zhi Ling is the best archer in the game, and bows do a TON of damage lategame, but you need to complete the Eastern lands side quest to recruit her. Probably the best option is Zhi once she is available, though.

What weapons / techs / spells are your party primarily using? You might be low on damage looking at the party, which will be a real problem in that fight if you don't have a good way, like lv.20 Fire Wall or Firecracker, to rapidly clear the water elemental field and stop Forneus' regen. There is a Meteor Fragment hidden in Forneus' dungeon before you enter the castle section, just keep pushing against the right wall to find it, and you can forge a Kris Naga epee for Robin with it, which is the best in the game and might help if you don't have it yet, and the Royal Ring provides regen and immunity to Maelstrom IKs if you picked that up for Arakes' dungeon already. Herman comes with the Viking axe, which has Genghis Khan as a hard-to-learn-but-silly-strong built in tech, which Ellen might like.

**Wolf Kanno** · 05-11-2018, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Rez09

Deessssuuuuuu maaaaachine! A few nasty quirks aside, I love the original SaGa and the amount of ambition that went into making it. Five, effectively, very different worlds to be explored, four different PC types with unique strengths and weaknesses, a pretty solid soundtrack, and relatively fair level of challenge. I also kind of love the final boss' wonderfully meta motivation in the Japanese version of the gamehe's bored and creates the tower and the evils in each world for his own amusement, even keeping score books for how far people managed to get before dying, whiiiiich the party aren't super happy about when they get to the top. It's a fun little twist I'm kind of sad was removed. Honestly the only part of the game I dislike is the very start when you are getting the stuff to open the tower, which always felt super slow and grindy to me.

Also, you should try some Unlimited SaGa, you know you want to. You know I want you to. Plaaaaay it, looooove it.

They downplayed it more than removed it, it's still obvious the final boss made the Tower of Doom for trouts and giggles and is hardly benevolent. I do like the twist that he's been following you though, which again, gives the game a nice MegaTen vibe since FB dresses so nicely in that suit and top hat.

I'll think about Unlimited SaGa at the moment cause SF2 really made m ein the mood to go through Legend of Mana again. I also feel I could use the extra time to double down on RS1. Speaking of which...

So after completing the Aquamarine quest, I went to the mountain to collect a feather for some reason... and was promptly killed for my trouble by that Cerberus monster I mentioned before. I then realized I forgot to save after completing the Aquamarine quest. So instead of doing it a third time, I decided to backtrack and explore a bit more and my oh my did I find a few things. Mainly, I assembled a real team finally. I've been mostly Albert and Sif for the first few hours barring an occasional guest character or two, but now I almost have a full team. I ran into Gray and Claudia in a pub in the second town I was in at the start of the game. I went to the inn and got an event from Claudia that dragged me into a new area but outside of a story event with some interesting implications, there wasn't a whole lot to do in the area. I traveled to the one other city by boat I had not visited yet and found a mage named Myriam in another pub. I tried to recruit the Minstrel, but for some reason I can't get him to join me.

So. unable to find anything else to do I did the Aquamarine Quest in Crystal Lake. Unfortunately, I failed to properly upgrade my team's equipment so I probably took more damage than I should have. I am currently going back to the mountain to fetch a feather. So far here's my setup

Albert - Middle row with Spear as primary weapon, Rapier just in case, and he can use Light and Water Magic.
Sif - Front row with an Axe, Bastard Sword, and Punch. No magic.
Gray - Front Row with Steel Sword, not as well armored as he should be... no magic
Claudia - Middle Row with Bow and Rapier, taught her Earth Magic
Myriam - Back Row, Magic Staff and Rapier, has only fire magic but two spells.

I need to outfit the three new characters a bit better in terms of armor but I don't really have the funds to do so. The team feels well balanced for now.

Also, have I mentioned thay that the artist for the SaGa franchise, Tomomi Kobayash, does gorgeous work?

Raphael_&_Constance.jpg
saga_paper02-1280x1024.jpg
Gustave_+_Leslie.jpg
SFII_Group.jpg

**Black Magic Shopkeeper** · 05-15-2018, 03:14 AM

Oh man, those pictures are beautiful! I have to admit, I've always adored the character designs for all the SaGa games. They just seem so tangible and intricate.

Meanwhile, I've successfully scrambled out of the Underwater Palace and went around digging for more things to do-- which lead to nothing substantial. I've realized that me beating the Black Dragon Ruler and obtaining the True Kamsheen was either a fluke or a stroke of luck-- because I'm definitely not up to level.

Most of my team is ~500 HP currently, aside from Ellen and Harid, who have just recently reached the 600 mark.

I always keep two Tech/Waza slots empty on everyone for the sake of allowing them to learn new abilities, which means having to sacrifice a skill when new ones arise and really micromanage the Waza lineup. I double down on using un-mastered Wazas so that they can be free to remove if ever needed, but there are some I'll be compelled to keep for their satisfactory usefulness. So if the tech/waza lineups I'm about to spew seem stunted... you know why.

Harid has two evade techs which are taking a while to master: Slicing Slash and Lifesteal. For his Kamsheen he has Cross Slash and Holo Sword, and currently he's also wielding a Spider sword with Rollup Strike and Sweep draw. Let's also note that I managed to get the Demi rune and Demi echo specials on the Kamsheen.
Ellen has Far hit and Rollup strike (which are also unmastered... such is fate with Evade wazas, it seems...) On her Francisca Axe I've got Warcry, Skull crush and Dimension cut. She's also got a Bloody Sword attached, but that's merely a backup-- with Backstab attached. It's taking a while to get her better acquainted with the Swords, and I think I might switch to training her something else...I really wanted her to be my offense mainstay but I might be doing it wrong.
Poet has Blade Roll and Thousand Bird evade, again UNMASTERED... But he and Robin seem to learn Evade wazas the fastest. So it's only a matter of time. I think I accidentally wound up really leveling his Sword stats, so that's his strongest proficiency at the moment... He has the Yoto Ryuko on him which, while having a sorta low base attack power, has been incredibly useful since I got it. Its Exorcist special continues to satisfy me, and he's got Dimension cut and Backstab-- Backstab currently unmastered, simply because I keep saving it for the trickier fights. On his Slit Hammer he has Brain Split and Rotation Hit(unmastered), though his axe/blunt skills aren't exactly what I call perfect... but I generally don't use him for techs anyway. His strengths lie elsewhere.
Robin is special. Robin is actually important. He is the absolute fastest at learning techs on my team most of the mastered Evade wazas come from him. Currently he has on Net and Hypnotize, both mastered. He has a Silver Foil, which shouldn't be too powerful, but somehow he's pulled through exceedingly with it-- better, somehow, than any of his spears or lower-power epees. He's currently toting Matador(which I can't for the life of me seem to master) and Snake Shot, and he's learned Werebuster on it. In the second slot he wields the Lucerne, which he's got Dragon Hit and Spiral Charge for.
Boston has Stare and Hypnotize evade, and the rest of his techs are all unarmed, getting learned and mastered rapidly and requiring excessive management; Right now I'm allowing him Air throw, Bolt kick, Reverse throw, and Niagara buster... which... only Bolt kick is mastered.
Lastly, I took your advice and ditched Tatyana, but I think I'm starting to regret this. Here's why: She's useless with techs. Evade techs, maybe, but she hasn't gained one single JP since I got her-- and I've tried my darndest to raise them. Luckily, her magic is good, but I miss having someone to double as archer and mage. So right now she's got Slicing slash and Far hit evade, and... nothing else really matters.

In the magic department, I think I'm doing pretty well.

Harid has been learning Earth and Sun magic for a while now. Aside from the basic Stone Ballet and Sunshine, he has Berserk, Earth heal, Crack, Heat wave, Star fixer, and Day break. You mightt notice by now that Harid's my most useful member against undead enemies, but aside from that he's mainly a backup healer and spellsword.
Poet has all fire magic. His Air slash spell isn't all that astounding vs his techs and he doesn't have any other (essentially) offensive or regenerative spells, but that's not what matters. What matters is that he has an arsenal of support/buff/debuff spells, and unlike most rpg enthusiasts, I take buff/debuff spells seriously. So he's got Hard fire, Feather seal, Bard song, Self burning, and Fire wall. I recall Self burning is what helped get me through the black Dragon Ruler battle. Every time that stupid dragon clawed at him, it dealt a whopping 9999 damage on him. Was this a bug? Maybe. But it got me through the fight, nonetheless.
Robin once more proves to be speciai. Even in the magic department. I spent my first few days of training up his magic finesse by using Wind dart and Shadow bolt as his main go-to attacks, and from there, he's learned a few useful tricks. Nap, Dancing Leaf, Suction, Moonglow, Moon shine, and Soul freeze in that order. He's only recently become my tertiary healer with Moon shine, but for a long while, he was relying on Suction to heal nobody but himself. I can't tell you how many times I had him as the only standing partner, using Suction to both damage the boss and heal himself in one move. Perhaps it's because of this, him being the Last Man Standing in many battles, that he's doing so much better than the others. I don't know...
And then there's Undine, who at least excels in her magic. She's my primary healer and mage, using Squall, Life water and Thunder clap all the ding dang time. She's also got Sparkling mist and Water ball for when the going gets rough, but ...alas, I don't think I'll be using her against Forneus when I get back around to it.
Boston has Squall, but that's it... I'm not going to focus on magic with him.

Perhaps my biggest flaw is that I have too many party members using swords. I don't have an archer right now either, which bugs the ever living heck out of me. Could it be that I'm running an unbalanced party right now? Maybe. But I can't tell if I'm actually doing something wrong, or something right, or if my lineup relies on luck or something. It's a real headscratcher. Either way, I'm gonna be going back in to try my hand against Forneus again.

**Wolf Kanno** · 05-16-2018, 05:54 AM

Oiy...

Sorry I haven't posted in this forum for awhile, I've been partially distracted by RL and getting back into Legend of Mana. I was able to get some play time in today and all I can say is oiy...

I'm kind of running into the typical issue with open world games, I have like three quests going on, two of which involve going to locations I've never been to, and being mostly lost. Trying to dodge combat is not helping things and I feel I've met my first party member I may end up ditching.

So I'm currently running this party:

Albert - Spear/Epee - Water Magic (healing mostly) and Light Magic
Sif - Axe and Bastard Sword
Gray - Steel Sword
Claudia - Greatbow/Rapier - Earth Magic
Myriam - Magic Staff/Rapier - Fire Magic
Barbara - Punch/Kick - Wind Magic

Barbara is the newest addition and she's just not terribly good. The other three new recruits have all fallen into their niche but this dancer just isn't cutting it yet, so I may end up ditching her for Hawk, the character I really wanted. I will be sure to remove the Amethyst Fatestone she came with though. I initially felt I was going to ditch Myriam as well, but the little fire mage has proven pretty good.

So last time I was trying to get a Feather from a Great Bird that lives not far from the Rosalia capital. Got the feather, and lo and behold he wants me to do a quest for him concerning the retrieval of a stolen item on some mountain I've never heard of.

I pick up Barbara and get access to the Frontier where I go to fight a Vampire that's plaguing the villages, but I don't think I actually fought him. I faced off with some generic monster instead, so no clue if I missed my chance for this mission.

Came back to South Estamir with the intention of dropping Barbara from my party but the damn Pub owner set me off on a quest to help the ruler of Estamir rescue his kidnapped daughter from the original locals of the area who are part of some Water Dragon cult. Infiltrated the main base and fought a monster disguising itself as the leader of the group's body double. Learned the girl had been sent to the Water Shrine to be sacrificed and went to rescue her. This dungeon is terrible by the way with too many narrow ridges and way more monsters than usual. Thumped the leader and his guards to get the girl back and the Water Dragon has an objection about losing his dinner. I actually get the option to reason with it, and choose so, only for the blasted thing to send me on another quest to another location I've never heard of to retrieve an item they lent to some monster who never returned it...

So now I'm wandering around looking for new locations to help me finish these quests, but I don't know where to go and the internet is failing to provide me with a full map of the Super Famicom version of the game. I also kind of want to start seriously leveling my party because I can feel a difficulty spike coming.

**Rez09** · 05-18-2018, 05:44 AM

I would recommend dropping Barbara. She isn't bad, technically everyone can end up roughly the same, but she doesn't come on board with anything beyond her Fatestone and revealing the Frontier location on the map and additional party members early in the game drive up boat costs and money for spells and equipment -- I generally run a party of three ish until I have them geared to satisfaction or need them for something.

Out of curiosity, that feather quest, did you happen to get it from a random old man wandering around outside in Crystal City? I see him all the time and he mentions the feather to me, but I've never actually received any kind of formal quest from anyone.

The vampire is clearly a vampire, so if you are questioning it you didn't find them.

That mission technically never closes, so you haven't missed out on it, though it might be possible to have the location blocked off in the late game depending on certain other events. If I were to guess you probably found one of the other dungeons in the area, there are four total, or you were in the right one (I believe it is called 'Vampire' on the map) and reached the bottom floor and fought a stationary enemy that was guarding the exit, as I seem to recall there being one on the staircase leading outside in the dungeon.

That water dragon wants you to meet the earth dragon, who is located on the plains below Isthmus' Castle's southern exit. If you don't see it there you should be able to learn the location of both it and the shortcut into the empire from someone in the town on that map.

To open up map locations you might have missed:

Crystal City should have someone that reveals the Steppes, which has two northern exits. The left one leads to a desert, which is added to the map after you exit it from the east, and the right should lead you to a map with an oasis town in it. People in there can tell you about Northpoint, which has boats running to an island with a pyramid.

The island with the pyramid has three locations on it and you can learn about all three from whichever port you land in (as I recall).

Recruiting Claudia and Grey should have unlocked the empire for you, which you use the shortcut or cross the plains from Bruelle to reach.

The empire has a port with boats that run to the pyramid island and the volcanic island where the Bird wants you to go -- I forget which boat is which though. You can talk to the people in the town to learn about the volcano and the dinosaur plains there, though. That should be all of the major map locations.

Regarding grinding: I generally just level as I play, so I don't have any recommendations for that other than the crypt underneath Estamir early in the game, but I do seem to recall grinding for money against the elemental eyeball enemies in the Water Dragon Shrine. I don't recall if it was a good method of grinding money, but I do remember it. Also, you can only carry 9999 gold, so when you hit that point you need to sell something at a shop to get a gem and roll over your money. There is actually a quest item that pretty much requires doing that.

On the RS3 front . . .

Originally Posted by Black Magic Shopkeeper

Perhaps my biggest flaw is that I have too many party members using swords. I don't have an archer right now either, which bugs the ever living heck out of me. Could it be that I'm running an unbalanced party right now? Maybe. But I can't tell if I'm actually doing something wrong, or something right, or if my lineup relies on luck or something. It's a real headscratcher. Either way, I'm gonna be going back in to try my hand against Forneus again.

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This is my final party for the Harid game I did a while back, so . . . I'd say your party is fine. : p There is no downside to everyone using the same weapon class from a mechanical point of view, barring a select few resistant enemies like gels; the actual downside comes from how many copies of high end weapons you can get ahold of. Swords, Fists, and Spears are all pretty equal here, so you just have the upside of sharing techs once someone masters one, but Axes and Bows have limited supplies of the top tier gear, and the axe/staff stuff have the best techs for those classes built into said limited gear.

That said, I dug up one of my old saves before Forneus to see what I was running for the fight. I had:

Harid:
539 hp, 39 Def, 28 Res, 23 Sword Lv, 6 Wind Lv, 12 Moon Lv

Screamer
Earth Shield for Face Hit and Bolt
Sea Tortoise for Water Immunity
Royal Ring for Death Immunity and Regen
Shell Blazer for +1 Dex
Plastic Shoes for +1 Speed and Electrical Resist

Hypnotize Evade
Gushing Wind
Wind Dart
Dancing Leaves

Ellen:
563 hp, 26 Def, 47 Res, 24 Fist Lv, 5 Wind Lv, 13 Moon Lv

Earth Shield for Face Hit and Bolt
Lake Robe for its light weight and Water Immunity
Troll Stone for regen
Power Glove for +2 Str
Plastic Shoes for +1 Speed and Electrical Resist

Bolt Kick
Wind Dart
Tornado

Robin:
478 HP, 54 Def, 42 Res, 25 Epee Lv, 14 Wind lv, 3 Moon Lv

Kris Naga for Snake Sword
Earth Shield for Face Hit and Bolt
E. Martial
Star Trail
Shell Blazer for +1 Dex
Fishscales for Water Immunity

Hypnotize Evade
Wind Dart
Dancing Leaf
Tornado

Undine:
486 HP, 32 Def, 64 Res, Magic Crown, 21 Earth Lv, 11 Moon Lv

Earth Shield (pretty sure this is pointless when casting spells though)
Guard Ring
Devil King Armor for +1 all stats and massive magic resistance (might have water immunity, too)
Headband for +1 Int
Plastic Shoes for +1 Speed and Electrical Resistance

Hypnotize Evade
Stone bullet
Moon Shine
Earth Heal
Crack

Zhi Lin:
448 HP, 31 Def, 42 Res, 25 Bow Lv, 5 Wind Lv

Fairy Bow for Charm Arrow
Holy King Helmet for confusion immunity
Firebird
Shell Blazer for +1 Dex
Fishscales for Water Immunity

Hypnotize Evade
Wind Dart
Dancing Leaf

I went in using the Speculation formation for bonus speed and damage; Ellen, Harid, and Robin were all dropping 1k damage a round, Undine was going full support, and Zhi was doing around 500. Lost a few times due to unfortunate Face Hits and Squall flipping the elemental field away from Wind, but I got it on the third or so try breaking a life cane, so you should be okay in the fight if you are anywhere around these numbers. The biggest thing is probably going to be damage, as I was on the low end at 3500 a turn, so if you can pump that up to at least 4~5K you should be good to go with lower defenses, or, alternatively, run Tiger's Cave if you have enough non-water elemental magic to stop his regeneration and can slug it out with him.

For party recommendations:

Harid should probably pick up a shield and drop the Big Sword techs and Spider, as the Kamsheen is extremely strong and can only use single handed sword techs, and shields are very useful. You'll probably also want to either master Back Stab and move it over to Harid or try to learn Gushing Wind or Dragon Tail for better damage. You can grind out new techs well in the King's Capital, I believe it was called -- the place where you found the Kamsheen. There is a large demon in there that can randomly be an Asura, which is the best enemy in the game to learn techs on, and there is a room filled with snakes you can sometimes find Dragon Panzers in, which are decent to grind on and have a chance to drop a rare item used to make a fantastic end game armor.

Ellen is my staple DPS character and usually the one I pick for MC, so she can definitely do the deeps for you. ; ) The problem you are seeing might be coming from the different weapons you are trying to train her in, as opposed to sticking with just one. If you go with axes you can develop the Power Glove in the workshop and slap it on her, which will increase both her accuracy and damage, and you can also develop the Brover there. The best Axe, the Hawk Wind, is available in the Rotten Sea Ruins if you don't mind having to complete the Far East events for it. If you give her swords she can share techs with Harid and double your chances of learning Gushing Wind, ect. She's also a great martial artist and would overlap with Boston there, but you'll want to put her in light armors if you go that route, since effective speed is part of the martial arts damage formula.

For the Poet, working swords should be fine there too, just have him share techs with Harid and focus on spells. He'll become amazingly useful after you defeat Aunas as that unlocks the Reraise fire spell, and I'm sure you can imagine how that'll work out.

That Self Burning thing with the dragon is a bug I remember reading about, but I don't recall the details of it -- the spell is pretty useful in the Desert Lance and Phoenix Dance formations even without the bug, though, since the pointman draws crazy amounts of aggro.

Robin is a monster with Epees and Spears and I love him for it. You can make a Kris Naga really early on to nab him the best Epee and you can rock shields with those since they are single handed. Firecracker is an Epee tech that can change the elemental field to fire, too, which is super useful in the Forneus fight. I will advise that you remove Matador though, unless you are using him as your tank in one of those defensive formations. If you don't know the tech and haven't mastered it, Robin can randomly learn it in battle and counter with it, but you have to select it and potentially waste a turn if it is on your list already. That said, buddy is hilarious as a Matador evasion tank in the right setups, especially if you start boosting his speed.

For Boston I don't have much to say -- you've got the lobster man doing what lobster men do best, and Bolt Kick my primary martial arts attack for the mid game.

Undine is generally terrible with techs, and though she can use an epee or bow damn well with her high Dex she doesn't tend to learn new skills well. She comes with a magical crown and I generally keep her with it, picking one of the elemental schools and running the whichever solar school I really need, most often Moon for Shadow Servant.

**Wolf Kanno** · 05-18-2018, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Rez09

I would recommend dropping Barbara. She isn't bad, technically everyone can end up roughly the same, but she doesn't come on board with anything beyond her Fatestone and revealing the Frontier location on the map and additional party members early in the game drive up boat costs and money for spells and equipment -- I generally run a party of three ish until I have them geared to satisfaction or need them for something.

Yeah, I dropped her for Hawke, and he's proven to be a great asset. I have him using a Steel Sword at the moment, but I eventually plan on him getting a spear and being in the second row with Albert. Getting Hawke largely alleviated a few problems I was having and helped me find the eastern islands I was missing for some of my quests.

Out of curiosity, that feather quest, did you happen to get it from a random old man wandering around outside in Crystal City? I see him all the time and he mentions the feather to me, but I've never actually received any kind of formal quest from anyone.

Yeah, I believe talking to him opens the mountain the bird is at. I even picked up the feather, but I've yet to find a use for it. I'm kind of kicking myself for giving the Aquamarine to Neidhart now that I think about it, but he's also the one who tells you where the feather is.

The vampire is clearly a vampire, so if you are questioning it you didn't find them.

That mission technically never closes, so you haven't missed out on it, though it might be possible to have the location blocked off in the late game depending on certain other events. If I were to guess you probably found one of the other dungeons in the area, there are four total, or you were in the right one (I believe it is called 'Vampire' on the map) and reached the bottom floor and fought a stationary enemy that was guarding the exit, as I seem to recall there being one on the staircase leading outside in the dungeon.

I went to the dungeon labeled Vampire, and while I fought a stationary monster there, it was a generic monster, not a special vampire one. Beating the dungeon didn't seem to change the fate of the village nearby either that is overrun with vampire spawn. I'll try to go back, but I need to finish the chain of deals nonsense first.

That water dragon wants you to meet the earth dragon, who is located on the plains below Isthmus' Castle's southern exit. If you don't see it there you should be able to learn the location of both it and the shortcut into the empire from someone in the town on that map.

To open up map locations you might have missed:

Crystal City should have someone that reveals the Steppes, which has two northern exits. The left one leads to a desert, which is added to the map after you exit it from the east, and the right should lead you to a map with an oasis town in it. People in there can tell you about Northpoint, which has boats running to an island with a pyramid.

The island with the pyramid has three locations on it and you can learn about all three from whichever port you land in (as I recall).

Recruiting Claudia and Grey should have unlocked the empire for you, which you use the shortcut or cross the plains from Bruelle to reach.

The empire has a port with boats that run to the pyramid island and the volcanic island where the Bird wants you to go -- I forget which boat is which though. You can talk to the people in the town to learn about the volcano and the dinosaur plains there, though. That should be all of the major map locations.

Yep, I finally unlocked most of the world at this point, I met the fire demon and he wants an Ice Sword so I'm looking for that. I recall it being in a shop but I need to find it. While that is going on, I managed to defeat two dragons in Silver's Treasure cove, one of which was a real doozy of a fight but awarded me with the Opal. I've also unlocked two more quests, one involves a town overrun by monsters from the volcano but I can't finish this quest until I find the Ice Sword cause the monster I need to thump won't fight me. The other quest involves the Gold Mines, and I was doing okay in there until I got to the bottom levels and got really unlucky with a group of magic spamming monsters. Oh, and I have the one town attacked by pirates as well. Like three quests all opened up. There was also that quest with the Gecklings, but that involves dropping some one from my team to recruit the Geckling characters and I'm frankly pretty content with my current team. I also had a knight tell me Theodore is doing something stupid as well, but I'm a bit busy at the moment. So yeah, quests out of the wazoo.

Regarding grinding: I generally just level as I play, so I don't have any recommendations for that other than the crypt underneath Estamir early in the game, but I do seem to recall grinding for money against the elemental eyeball enemies in the Water Dragon Shrine. I don't recall if it was a good method of grinding money, but I do remember it. Also, you can only carry 9999 gold, so when you hit that point you need to sell something at a shop to get a gem and roll over your money. There is actually a quest item that pretty much requires doing that.

Ugh, I really don't care for the Jewel mechanic in this game. It made sense in SaGa Frontier 2 cause crowns (gold) was specific to the character, but Chips (Jewels) would carry over to other characters scenarios. In this game, it just seems to be there to annoy the player, and discourage grinding along with some of the other game features.

I've eased up on running from every encounter, there are just too many choke points in dungeons where it's easier to just kill the five sets of monsters than try to bypass them and get into an unfavorable encounter. With that said, I don't fight everything thing I meet either.

Stat-wise, my team has about average 550-650hp per person, and most of the stats are within the 30-50 point range on all characters. I've even achieved all of the weapon skills for a few people's weapons and Myriam has a pretty generous mp pool. I've been meaning to work on Albert's magic, but that's proving to be difficult because he's the slowest party member and the rest of the team (specifically Gray and Claudia) tend to murder everything before he gets a turn. Speaking of magic, it's weird that it says it uses the old charge system like in FFI/III, but it's actually closer to an MP system cause using any spell will drain the other uses as well. Just a weird way of doing it is all.

My real issue in terms of party development is equipment. My party is still stuck using low-to-mid gear. I've been trying to be more careful about converting my gold into jewels so I can finally start outfitting the team with some decent gear but I know I need to hold onto my cash to buy that expensive Ice Sword. I have about three jewels and I'm close to getting a fourth one soonish. I figured I would do the Gold Mine and Pirate invasions quests real fast to get some money and then I can finish the chain of deals nonsense. With the sudden explosion of quests, I'm thinking I've reached whatever arbitrary event limit I need and the game is now pushing me towards the end game. So I'll probably be stepping up my efforts to get better stats and gear. Kind of a shame there are only about four weapons per weapon type. Even more annoying knowing I'll have to relearn all the weapon techs as well.

Also, is there any way to talk to the unique girl spite that has long black hair and wears a ribbon? I keep meeting her in Pubs where she's behind the counter, but can never seem to speak to her.

**Wolf Kanno** · 05-21-2018, 09:51 AM

Update time!

So to my regret, I dropped Myriam from my team in order to recruit Galahad, in order to complete the fetch quest with the four beasts. Kind of cool they gave me summons, but I kind of wish I had access to the treasure they were guarding as well. Guess it doesn't pay to be nice. I dropped Gally cause he's kind of awful, and switched him with Guella Ha, who is much better, but I still wish I had Myriam. Luckily the new guy lets me do the Geckling quests, but the one they are offering me now, I've already completed. I'm trying to get the quest that gives me access to the Moonstone temple, but I've either missed my chance or I'm missing a step.

I did the Island of Evil, and was a bit disappointed it ended with the bad guy running away. Does he ever come back, or was I suppose to do something beforehand to get the Fatestone he possessed? I also did some quest involving a dinosaur egg, which I'm debating about selling for the cash.

I completed the Pirate invasion quest but lost out of the Gold Mine one, and I'm still holding off on the Theodore quest. The Bard has also offered me a quest involving some Weapons of the Gods, which tells me I'm in end-game mode now. I kind of want to avoid the Frontier as well since I've been hearing rumors from characters in-game about some Jeweled Beast that even the Big Bad is afraid of sleeping there.

I do need to amass more money now, as I finally cashed in all the jewels I have to outfit five of my six team members with the best armor available for purchase. I do still need to pick up some Guardian Rings as well. I have some Cursed Shes as well, but if Lufia 2 and DQ have taught me anything it's that cursed items are more trouble than they are worth. Star Ocean 2 on the other hand, now there was a game where Cursed gear was great!

For the most part, I feel like I'm near the end, so I'll probably be grinding people for better stats and trying to figure out my final team. I really want Myriam back, but if I had to I can sub her for Aisha since I never used her. I'm also warming up to Mr. Geckling, and I've heard Prince Niederhart is available as well. Maybe I'll troll myself and see if Raphael is still recruitable. Once the final team is settled, I'll focus on getting everyone some healing magic and some buff/debuff spells cause monsters are certainly getting nasty enough to warrant it now.

**Rez09** · 05-21-2018, 03:58 PM