Ivalice

[Wolf Kanno]

Honestly, I have more attachment to individual stories told within Ivalice than to Ivalice itself and don't see it as an especially realized world. I've never noticed narrative threads tying together the various games in the world I've played (so, FFT, TA, and 12), and even if they do exist they do not do so at a strong enough level to have ever truly begun developing the world itself. This is in contrast to, for instance, Front Mission, Star Ocean, and Suikoden, all of which did excellent jobs defining and engaging the player in their shared worlds within the first three titles, and each game managed to tell its own independent story while still drawing on and contributing to the fiction of the universe overall, sometimes with fairly substantial chronological disparity, which is something I never felt Ivalice achieved. The story and events in FF12 should have had worldwide implications, but there is no sign of anything other than Balthier from it impacting FFT, and nothing related to the Lucavi or Occuria touch anything outside of their respective titles. This lack of a building fiction between the titles always left Ivalice feeling rather flat to me, and I don't especially care if more entries appear there or not, and I especially don't want them if SE decides to make entries to tie the world together, as I have no faith in their ability to properly do that at this point.

That said, while I may feel Ivalice fails as a shared world, it definitely succeeds as a setting, with a great collection of races, level of technological progress, and mystery surrounding magic and crystals. It feels fantastic in a way most other titles in the FF series don't especially manage, if they do it at all. The games themselves also succeed on the narrative side completely, and I always find the behind the scenes powerplays and 'schemes within schemes' engaging, and even in the case of FFTA, where I don't enjoy the story at all, I can still appreciate the effort the writers put into the ideas they were trying to address without necessarily sacrificing their characters and replacing them with the railroad spikes needed to tie the vision of the greater plot together.

So, in short, the games are great, the setting is great, the world itself is unactualized.


EDIT: Wait, I just remembered something, I think the Lucavi might appear as the summons in FF12, but even if they do I don't think they do so with the weight they should have, considering their role in FFT.

To be fair to Ivalice, it was not originally meant to be an expanded world. Tactics is so tonally different from the rest of the franchise that it's better to say it's just Tactics Ogre with the names filed off and replaced with Final Fantasy references. Vagrant Story was initially claimed to not be connected to Ivalice despite a few fan service nods to Tactics and it was only later that it was welded in despite not really having anything to do with the franchise, and it sounded like that was more of the higher ups stepping in than the team's idea. Hell, it's canonization is still debatable.

It's obvious that the actual "Ivalice" that Matsuno wished to make didn't really start until FFTA and XII, which both feature interesting references to the two prior Ivalice games but whether it was meant for them to still be connected is unknown at this time. FFTA2 is the proper sequel to XII and probably does more to connect it to the other Ivalice games than others. The real issue is that two games really don't mesh well with the other entries, namely FFTA and Vagrant Story. I feel that had Matsuno stayed with Squenix, he could have made it into a more cohesive franchise, as it is, he basically built a popular world and later tried to expand on it with various results. In my own opinion, a new translation could easily reconcile the most glaring discrepancy VS has with the other ivalice titles. TA is the hard one, because TA2 pretty much confirmed it happened within the timeline despite the fact that I feel it was obvious that TA was meant to be a stand alone entry. Course stuff like that is bound to happen when the head guy is no longer in charge.

Despite that though, there are several connections between the games. XII gives us the origins of the Lucavi as well as the fridge horror realization that it's Ashe's fault that they will eventually terrorize the world. XII also gives us a glimpse of the Kiltas Religion which has been degraded into a cult by the time of Vagrant Story as well as showing that VS takes place in the same country as Archades since the region in both games are referred to as Valendia. In addition, the nature of Mist in XII is very similar to how the Dark work's in VS. TA2 shows us Goug Machine City in it's prime while also giving us a better idea of the world's geography.

Based on one line in FF12, it sort of seems like Ashe is supposed to be St Ajora, but I don't think anything matches up well enough for that to make sense, ao it's probably a throwaway homage more than an actual story tie.

I am struggling to remember any time Ashe is referred to as a saint within FFXII. Lot's of references to her lineage as the Dynast-King's descendant but never a saint.

I doubt it would have even been in there as just a nod, because all of the connections I mentioned above wouldn't cause a retcon to the overall scenario. Also FFTactics has received an updated translation in terms of the War of the Lions edition, and Ajora is still Ajora, and not Ashelia which even when going into the Japanese wouldn't be phonetically close enough to be a translation error. Not to mention, as you said yourself, the retcon it produced is too large to be reconciled within the games.

[Fynn]

Im pretty sure that according to the lore the golden age that FFXII represents is set several centuries before the time of St. Ajora.

Also, I think I'll just keep posting gifs of Scully rolls her eyes whenever I hear anyone say FFXII has no plot again. What is this, 2006?

[Galuf]

Im pretty sure that according to the lore the golden age that FFXII represents is set several centuries before the time of St. Ajora.

Also, I think I'll just keep posting gifs of Scully rolls her eyes whenever I hear anyone say FFXII has no plot again. What is this, 2006?

^^^^^^

its like saying FFIX is lighthearted and non dark at all

[Wolf Kanno]

Im pretty sure that according to the lore the golden age that FFXII represents is set several centuries before the time of St. Ajora.

Also, I think I'll just keep posting gifs of Scully rolls her eyes whenever I hear anyone say FFXII has no plot again. What is this, 2006?

No, it's actually the same time frame. Though looking up the Wiki, St. Ajora is either alive in another part of Ivalice or has already been executed. She's mentioned in the Bestiary for the Magick Pot which details the founding of the Kiltas religion. Apparently, Ajora preached a splintered version of the Kiltas faith.

Religion begun by the prophet Kiltia over two millennia ago. The religion of the Ordalian peoples is a dualistic system—a polytheistic pantheon with a God of Light, Faram the Father, at its head. After embarking on a pilgrimage to proselytize and deliver the word of the vision he had seen to the people, Kiltia came to Mt Bur-Omisace, and from there his teachings spread. The Light of Kiltia, as his teachings were called, continued even after his death, until they covered all of Ivalice. Though the followers and churches of Kiltia are spread far and wide, they do not interfere in affairs of state or governance. Though at one point the church held considerable influence, they willingly discarded that power, fearing oppression. Ever since, church officials with the rank of celebrant or higher have been forbidden from participating in statecraft. In addition, Mt Bur-Omisace maintains a mutual non-incursion policy with the surrounding territories. Several years after Kiltia's founding, Saint Ajora began a new teaching, claiming that Faram alone was the one true god, the popularity of this new sect further lessening the power of the Light.—Sage Knowledge

[Lord Golbez]

Facts don't change from 2006. If you want to argue I'm wrong tell me what the plot is without referencing anything from the Magick Pot or that occurs offscreen. If you have to mention those than you're just proving my point about the lack of a narrative arc. Following characters traipsing around the world and then giving info dumps about actual plot points that occur elsewhere isn't telling a story.

FF12 seems like the result of Matsuno wanting to tell a story about political strife and warfare while someone else at Square wanted to tell a story about a plucky band of adventurers saving the world. They fight over which story to tell and they both lose. No story gets told.

[Fynn]

[Rez09]

FF12 seems like the result of Matsuno wanting to tell a story about political strife and warfare while someone else at Square wanted to tell a story about a plucky band of adventurers saving the world. They fight over which story to tell and they both lose. No story gets told.

It would seem that I am walking into a previously existing argument blind here, so forgive my ignorance of the finer details, but I'm not sure what you mean by no story being told in the game -- I find both of those elements work together to deliver the whole story of what is going on. Ashe and her party operate on a completely different level of knowledge, influence, and scale than Vayne does, and since you play as them and not Vayne you lack firsthand knowledge about most of what he is puppeting, but the party's goals always seemed rational and I followed their story well enough.

Despite that though, there are several connections between the games. XII gives us the origins of the Lucavi as well as the fridge horror realization that it's Ashe's fault that they will eventually terrorize the world.

How does it give us the origins of the Lucavi? I haven't played this game in years, so I don't recall this at all, unless it deals with the smashing of the Sun-Cryst maybe? That seems like an important event that should have consequences. . .

[Galuf]

a dumbed down summary of the plot:

Princess is maried with prince during warring times.
The war between 2 countries has culminated in a battle in the neutral region of dalmasca.
Prince rasler is eliminated during the war.
Vayne solidor arranges a peace treaty with king raminas of dalmasca, however he intends to kill him and take dalmasca over.
A small group suspects his false promise and tries to stop the murder, however they are too late and "Captain Basch" kills a young soldier named reks and the entire group
Flashforward a few years, and a teenager named vaan is hnting rats in a sewer.
He goes to see his caretaker Migelo, who asks him to find out what happened with his deliveries.
Vaan talks to a friend named tomaj who tells him a tomato scared off the supplier, so vaan goes out to kill it. upon his return he is locked out of the city of Rabanastre, because the parade for Vayne Solidor is about to begin.
Migelo convinces the guards to let vaan in, while scolding him for leaving the city.
Vaan, migelo and Vaans friend Penelo watch the speech by Vayne, who convinces an entire city of haters, to give him a second thought. Vaan and penelo are unconvinced.
Vaan plots to enter the Royal palace to steal stuff, and after some fetch quests in the Giza plains, he gains acess.
Once at the Vault he finds a mysterious treasure, which is later discovered to be a stone belonging to Ashes bloodline. All the while a resistance faction plots to eliminate Vayne.
Two bounty hunter, thiefy people named Fran and Balthier however discover Vaan looting the palace, and chase him to the rooftops.
After a chase scene the trio end up in the sewers and have to work together.
Towards the end of the sewers they notice a girl belonging to the Resistance group is trapped against imperial troops.
The group team up and defeat the imperials and make their way to the end of the sewers. Unfortunately the resistance failed in their plot and the entire amy captures the group.
In prison, Vaan meets a trio of dickface Seeq, and the saddest scene in gaming history occurs. Balthier and Vaan fight off the seeq, however a high ranking imperial "Judge Magister" Enters the scene, with another bonty hunter named Ba'gamnan. With balthier hidden, ba'gamnan is dissatisfied with the loss of his arch rival but is quickly put in place by the judge Magister (Gabranth)
Fran enters and the trio make their way out of the prison.... or rather deeper inside.
They spot a lone prison hanging over a large pit, inside is Captain Basch.
Vaan gets extremely angry that the Captain who killed his brother is infront of him. His brother being the soldier in the intro. named Reks.

as for a little break, remember this is like 2 hours into llike a 60 hour RPG if youre generous.
I will continue if you really want cos it gets alot deeper than this.

Also it bears reminding that disliking a plot and having no plot are completely different things.
I dont like FF8's plot much but i acknowledge its existence. Hell i even acknowledge FF15 has a [plot its just not well told.

[Rez09]

I dont like FF8's plot much but i acknowledge its existence.

Card games don't have plots.

[Lord Golbez]

Good grief. With some of the details you're listing, you might as well start including unscripted battles as part of the story. The things you're listing might count as things that "happen" but many don't contribute in any significant way into a cohesive narrative. Also, a number of things you mentioned sound like things that happened offscreen.

Also, I'll note that "no plot" is not my words, although I ran with it. I said it doesn't tell a story. You can make a laundry list of things that happen. That might count as a plot, barely, but it certainly doesn't count as telling a story. It would almost have to get deeper than that shallow drivel, although I still doubt you, because that meaningless rambling about killing tomatoes and going on fetch quests sounds like par for the course for about 90% of the game. If a game actually tells a story, you should be able to trace a narrative arc through it in a relatively brief synopsis. The fact that you feel so inclined to harp on every minutia of what happens is itself indicative of the problem.

I am struggling to remember any time Ashe is referred to as a saint within FFXII. Lot's of references to her lineage as the Dynast-King's descendant but never a saint.

Trust me, it's in there. I remember the line distinctly. "You are our Saint Ashelia B'nargan." I don't know if the script was changed at all in the recent rerelease, but that line was definitely in the original. It's right near the end of the game. Probably the penultimate area.

[Fynn]

I mean, it’s not like the theme of fighting for freedom in various form comes up in various form throughout both the main plot, the backstories of all the main cast, as well as the motivation of the villains. It’s not like the game is about everyone’s struggle to not only do what they think is right but also reconciling that with their own limitations as human beings as their values come into conflict, even if the end goal is the same on the surface. Right?

[Lord Golbez]

Right. It's not like that.

[Wolf Kanno]

Good grief. With some of the details you're listing, you might as well start including unscripted battles as part of the story. The things you're listing might count as things that "happen" but many don't contribute in any significant way into a cohesive narrative. Also, a number of things you mentioned sound like things that happened offscreen.

Also, I'll note that "no plot" is not my words, although I ran with it. I said it doesn't tell a story. You can make a laundry list of things that happen. That might count as a plot, barely, but it certainly doesn't count as telling a story. It would almost have to get deeper than that shallow drivel, although I still doubt you, because that meaningless rambling about killing tomatoes and going on fetch quests sounds like par for the course for about 90% of the game. If a game actually tells a story, you should be able to trace a narrative arc through it in a relatively brief synopsis. The fact that you feel so inclined to harp on every minutia of what happens is itself indicative of the problem.

Alright, I'll bite.

Short and sweet Version
FFXII is a story about the struggle between Lady Ashe as she follows in the footsteps of her ancestor the Dynast-King to gain the power needed to save her kingdom from the inevitable clash of empires of Archades and Rozzario. She uncovers the secret of her ancestor who was a pawn to an ancient race of advanced beings known as the Occurians who control the flow of history on Ivalice from the shadows by proxy agents like Ashe's ancestor. One of these Occurians went rogue and allied itself with Archades, teaching the secret behind the Occurians and Dynast-King's power which is nethicite. Lord Vanye spearheaded the conquering of the Galtean nations of Dalmasca and Nabradia in order to use the old nethicite of their ancestors for study against the new manufacted nethicite their own labs were creating. Yet Vayne's ambitions wasn't simply a battle against Rozzario, he actually wanted to prove that humanity no longer needed the Occurians themselves. Ashe is then manipulated by both Vayne and the Occurians to go on her journey and choose whether she will be a pawn of the Occurians in order to gain her revenge against Archades or to help Vayne sever their hold on Ivalice. She ultimately severs the hold and with her allies, kills Vayne and his Occurian ally Venat. They then prevent the opening shots of the war from going any further, saving Rananstre and the Galtean nations. Peace is brokered between the empires and Ashe is restored to the monarchy of Dalamsca.

Long and Detailed Version
In the Golden Age, the DSynast-King was given gifts by the gods in order to quell the warring continent and build an empire of peace and prosperity. Centuries later, his empire has fractured and crumbled into the kingdoms of Dlamasca and Nabradia, as well as the Empire of Archades. Fearing the military build-up and aggression against neighboring countries by Archades, Nabradia and Dalmasca marry their heirs Princess Ashe and Prince Rasler. Shortly after their wedding, Archades invades Nabradia and Rasler and Basch tr to defend it but Rasler is killed instead. Knowing they can't win, the King of Dalmasca treaties with Archades for peace, but the guard learn that Archades might pull something and so Basch, Vossler, and the new recruit Reks travel to Nabudis where the treaty is to be signed. Reks falls behind from Basch's group and when he reaches the throne room he sees Basch kill the king, before he is wounded himself. With the king dead and Basch on the run, Lady Ashe is reported to have committed suicide, leaving Dalamasca leaderless. Her unlce, the Marquis of Bhujerba steps in to sue for peace and Dalmasca becomes a frontier territory for Archades.

Two years later, Rabanstre is little more of a police state and overrun by war orphans like Vaan and Penelo. The town is under heavy security because the new consul for the territory is arriving and it's the emperor's eldest surviving son Lord Vayne himself. Frustrated by how much everyone is kissing the empire's ass, Vaan decideds to crash Lord Vayne's party that evening and steal from the treasury in order to give it back to the people of Rabanaste, and perhaps if their is enough, buy himself an airship so he can become a Sky Pirate. He sneaks successfully in and acquires a strange stone, but the party is also being crashed by the real sky pirates Balthier and Fran who heard rumors about the Dynast-King's treasure being hidden in the palace, as well as the Dalamasca Resistence who want to take Vayne hostage. Unfortunately for the Resistence, Vayne knew they were coming and has most of their forces routed. In order to escape with their lives, Vaan allies with the other two sky pirates and retreat into the sewers where they meet the Resistance Leader Amelia. They form an uneasy alliance but the four are captured anyway and Amelia is revealed to be Lady Ashe in disguise. Penleo cries after Vaan as she watches him and the others get sent to the Nabradia prison.

The group doesn't stay long, taking advantage of the arrival of the Judge Gabranth to distract the guards, the trio make a retreat into the dangerous tunnels below the prison. They soon discover that Gabranth came to gloat against Basch, who has been inprisoned there secretly since the botched peace treaty signing. Against Vaan's protest, since he believed he killed his brother, Balthier frees Basch to help them with their escape. Basch reveals that Gabranth is hi twin brother and masqueraded as him during the peace signing toi frame him due as orders from Vayne and his own personal grudge against him for fleeing their original homeland during the Archadean Invasion years back. Arriving back in Rabanastre, Basch recieves a cold welcoming from the Resistance despite his old friend Vossler vouching for his innocence. Basch learns that Lady Ashe is being held captive on the Imperial Airship Leviathan and he'll need some powerful political allies to be snuck aborad the ship, so he needs to head to Bhujerba to speak with the Marquis who is secretly the head of the Resistance. Meanwhile, Vaan learns that Penelo was kidnapped shortly after his arrest by a group of bounty hunters mistaking her for one of Baltheir's acquaintences and they are waiting for him in Bhujerba's Lhusus Mines for his capture. Vaan and Basch track down Baltheir in the Sandsea Bar and convince him (more like guilt him) into taking them to Bhujerba.

In Bhujerba, the group discover the imerials are there for an inspection of the Magicite mines, the countries greatest export and the powers ource for everything in Ivalice. Unfortunately, the head of the inspection team has gone missing. The team is then contacted by a young boy calling himself Lamont, who wishes to see the Lhusu Mines as well for his own reasoning while trying to avoid the imperials. The group heads to the mines where Lamont uses a strange stone to absorb all the energy accumalted in the Magicite within the mine to the shock of everyone. Before the group can get answers, the bounty hunter Ba'Gamman attacks the group flees the mines only to encounter the imerials once again led by Judge Ghis who has captured Penelo whom he found in the mines unaware of her being a prisoner. Lamont then reveals that he is Lord Larsa and tells Ghis that Penelo is his honored guest once he realizes she is the girl Vaan and the others were looking for. He goes with Ghis to be on the Dreadnought Leviathan. Needing Marquis Ondore's help to get aboard the ship, the party begins to spread rumora about Basch being alive in order to be arrested by his secret police. There, Basch bargains with him to get aboard the ship in order to rescie Ashe. On the ship, Larsa knows the group will soon arrive for Penelo and entrusts her with the shard piece he used in the mine. The team infiltrates the ship hwere the are helped by Larsa and Penelo to find and free Lady Ashe, they battle Judge Ghis and escape back to Bhujerba but Larsa leaves in order to prevent the group from being pursued more.

Ashe wants to strike back against the imperials and wishes for Bhujerba to join the Dalmascan Resistance, but Ondore can't do so without proof of Lady Ashe's birthright since he told everyone that she had died during the war. In order to do so, she decides to travel to the Tomb of Raithwall and claim one of the Nethicite shards which can be used as proof of her lineage to the Dynast-King and Dalmasca. She tries to steal Balthier's ship, but the buzz word Nethicite has Balthier concerned and so he throws his lot in with her. Fran goes where Balthier goes, and Basch wishes to atone for his failure to protect Rasler and the King by becoming Ashe's bodyguard. Vaan and Penelo say they are in too deep now to back out of helping their homland and choose to stay and help as well. The group cross the Sandsea located in a Jagd that prevents airship travel and find the tomb. Ashe reaches the inner sanctum and battles the Esper Belias who guards Raithwall's chamber. Proving herself, he joins her. Ashe and Vaan see a vision of Rasler who goads her into taking the Nethicite to both of their bewilderment. When they leave the tmb, they are attcked by Lord Ghis and arrested who shows off how their new Manufacted Nethicite allows airship trael in Jagd. He takes the stone and the team learns that Vossler had been a traitor feeding the imperials information iun hopes that Dalmasca may be set free one day. The team escape the fortress after killing Vossler, but Ghis expeirments on the nethicite from the tomb to see if he can use it as a tool to overthrow Vayne. Instead the stone releases it's full power and destroys his entire fleet toi the horror of the party who reclaim the stone afterwards.

In Archades. Vayne is brought back due to the mishap with the missing fleet. He consults with his father about the boldness of the Senate and their concerns with the Solidar name and Larsa. The emporer knows his health is poor and soon he will die. Vayne will likely be passed over by the Senate due to their mistrust in him and will instead choose Larsa to succeed because they believe he will be easier to control. The two conspire that great sacrifices will need to be made and the emporer tasks Judge Gabranth to look after Larsa.

Back in Rabanastre, the team plan their next move. They need to learn more about Nethicite and Raithwall. Fran suggests they visit the Garif, her are well-versed in matters concerning magicite, so the team heads to their village only to discover Larsa has also traveled there for the same reasons. The chief of the Garif informs Ashe that long ago the gods of Ivalice tried to find someone o use the nethicite for their goals and had originally asked the Garif due to their knowledge, but the Garif were unbale to utilize the nethicite in a satisfactory way, so instead they chose Raithwall and the Hume's as their mortal representatives. Ashe plans on using the stone's power to avenge her kingdom and loved ones, but the Garif can't help her as the stone's power has already been used up, making it useless as both as a weapon and as proof of her royal lineage. She changes gears and decides to head to Mt. Bur-Omace to gain the blessing of the Grand Kiltias instead as her proof. Before she leaves, Larsa speaks with her about the troubles brewing within Archades and his brother's military ambitions. Even worse, Rozzario is starting to move after theArchades fleet destruction and Marquis ndore has retired from public work on the pretense of being ill, when he's actually taking an effort to build the resistance back up so Ashe will have an army when she can prove her identity to the people. Larsa asks her to meet him and one of his allies for a meeting in Mt. Bur-Omace which she reluctantly agrees to. Larsa feels that if he can use Ashe to broker a pre-emptive peace between empires then perhaps his father would restore her kingdom as thanks, but the possibility is quickly shattered when Larsa learns that his father has been assassinated by the Senate anmd his brother Vayne has taken over the throne after placing the Senate under arrest. He has also had Judge Drace, killed for treason against his new regime by the hands of her best friend Gabranth who hides his own misgivings of Vayne in order to maintain his promise to the former emporer to protect Larsa.

The group travels to the Gomore Jungle to reach the holy land but are prevented by a magical barrier set up by the Viera. Fran reluctantly takes them to her former village to ask permission to pass through the barrier, but instead learn that Fran's younger sister has gone missing from the village. The team track her down in the Henne Mines not far from the Garif village where she is in a strange mist trancecaused by getting a hold of manufacted nethicite and being possessed by a spirit. They are bale to free her and return her to the village where the party learns that Fran chose to abandon the ultra conservative Viera village to see the rest of Ivalice, marking her as an outcast and hated by her people. Fran learns her sister went to leave to follow in her footsteps but Fran talks her out of following in her path which pleases the elder of the village who is Fran's older sister. The viera thank the party by lifting the barrier and letting them through to the holy land. There the party witness firsthand the damages caused by Archades war as the temple is overrun by refugees from the various wars. Ashe meets the Grand Kiltias who tasks her with traveling to the ancient Stillhirm of Miriam, a temple that predates the Golden Age in order to claim one of Raithwall's other royal artifacts, the Sword of Kings. After wardns she meets Al Cid Magrace of Rozzario, who informs her of the dire situation whin his own empire as it plans to use the Dalamsca Reistance as a pretense to invade Archades as their ally. Ashe retrieves the Sword of Kings and sees a vision of Rasler who confuses her and goads her to take revenge. Returning to the temple to have the Kilitas recongize Ashe's birthright, they isntead find the temple being attacked by the imperials led by Judge Bergan who is showing off the power of the manufacted Nethicite and is empoerred by the spirit that had possessed Fran's sister. With his death, Balthier consults the team into visiting Archades to find out what they are up to.

After the long journey there, Balthier reveals to Ashe that not only was he a former judge of Archades, but he knows about nethicite because he's the prodigal son of the Draklor Labratories chief engineer, Dr. Cid. H eclaims the nethicite drove his father insane which is partly why he left Archades. At the lab, the team discover another intruder has laready broken in, they meet the man, who is Balfoheim's leader, Reddas who came to kill Cid but failed, the team themselves battle Cid speaks with the strange spirit they seemed who is named Venat, and tells the group he'll be waiting for them in the lost mythical city of Giruvegan. The group joins with Reddas in Balfoheim who gives them a clue to reach Giruvegan while he also explains how he is spying on the imperials. The team head to the Feywood and find Giruvegan where they discover the Occurians, an ancient race of godlike beings who rule Ivalice from the shadows. They learn that Venat is a rogue member of the group and has revealed their secrets to Vayne and the Empire so they wish to make Ashe the new Dynast King and give her the same Rite as Raithwall to claim her own Nethicite from the Sun Cryst on the condition she kills Venat and destroys the empire for good. They give her the Sword of Oaths as a sign of their trust in her.

Retruning to Balfoheim, the team learns that the location of of the Sun-Cryst is on a strange island in Jagd that has claimed many of his own ships. They upgrade Balthier's ship with manufacted nethicite Reddas acquired in order to reach the island where the team undergo a trial by the Occurians and battle several dangerous foes while reading the tomes they left behind about their absolute rule over Ivalice. In the room of the Sun-Cryst, the team is attacked by Gabaranth whom Vayne had sent to goad Ashe, aware of her meeting with the Occurians, he let's his animosity towards Basch get the better of him and is soundly defeated at which point Cid arrives to explain that Vayne plans on fighting the Occurians themselves if he has to. Ashe chooses not to become pawn for the Occurians and tries to use the two Occurian swords to destroy the Sun-Cryst, but Reddas takes the job instead, wishing to atone for his crimes in Nabudis whne he was known as the Judge Magister Zecht who went missing after that the Nethicite expeirments turned the area into an uninhabitable mist fog. Unfortunately, it turns out that Cid and Vayne wanted the Sun-Cryst destroyed as it severed the Occurians control on the world and the excees Mist that spilled out of it would power Cid's final creation, the Sky Fortress Bahamut.

Leanring that the Resistance was fighting Vayne's fortress over Ranabstre with Rozzarios main fleet not far behind to start their own war, Ashe and company race to the fortress where they battle Gabranth one last time. Larsa chooses to fight Vayne as well and the team battle him where he reveals he's augmented himself with his own manufacted nethicite. Seeing Larsa in danger by the mad Vayne, Gabranth sides with the party to kill him instead. Gabranth and Vayne are fatally wounded in the battle but Venat chooses to merge with Vayne to give him one last shot at his dream to be the Dynast King as thanks for helping them with their plan to overthrow the Occurian rule. Merging with parts of the ship the party defeats the souped up despot ending his madness, but the war still continues and it's not until Vaan does some quick thinking with a voice changing device that they are able to convince the imperials to stand down. The Bahamut itself is too damaged from the battles and is now ready to crash into Rabanastre. Balthier and Fran volunteer to enter the fortress and prevent this which they succeed to but at the cost of their lives. Gabranth and Basch reconcile, and Gabranth asks Basch to take his place at Lord Larsa's side as his dying wish. The game then jumps a year later. Dalamsca has been restored with Ashe as the Queen, Blathier and Fran are revealed to have survived the ordeal on the Bahamut and are traveling the sky in some distant land, Basch fulfilled his brother's dying wish and is now "Judge Gabranth" in Archades serving under the new emporer Larsa, and Vaan and Penelo finally earned enough mosny to get their own airship and can finally start their lives as sky pirates themselves. The end, and mostly done by memory.

I am struggling to remember any time Ashe is referred to as a saint within FFXII. Lot's of references to her lineage as the Dynast-King's descendant but never a saint.

Trust me, it's in there. I remember the line distinctly. "You are our Saint Ashelia B'nargan." I don't know if the script was changed at all in the recent rerelease, but that line was definitely in the original. It's right near the end of the game. Probably the penultimate area.

I'm still pretty sure they never said anything like that unless we can determine the correct scene, but honestly, I've already shown that the in-game dictionary has stated that St. Ajora exists elsewhere in Ivalice at the timeframe of the game making it impossible for this to be a reference, so this is all a moot point anyway.

[maybee]

Also, I think I'll just keep posting gifs of Scully rolls her eyes whenever I hear anyone say FFXII has no plot again. What is this, 2006?

FFXII's plot is basically the typical Final Fantasy "fight the evil empire/ electric company/ Witch Government/ Cult " story, but more mature. It doesn't try and dumb anything down for the player. Though it does have it's moments of goof.

Fynn, is going to hate me for saying this, but I do think that FFXII's story is pretty dry compared to the likes of FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX.


Where's the plot-twist that Vaan actually comes from the moon? Or Balthier is a dream? Penelo uses a dog as a rocket launcher? Or Basche uses meteor rocks to travel between worlds and is actually a King with a granddaughter that can speak to Moogles?

[Fynn]

No, I won’t hate you for this because we all look for different things in a story. I respect the fact that XII’s narrative may be a bit dry to some since they have different expectations. It just tickles all the right spots for me.

It’s like, the way you experience fiction is subjective. So as long as you don’t argue that your opinion is more representative of an objective fact than mine, we’re good