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Thread: Ivalice

  1. #31
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rez09 View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
    Despite that though, there are several connections between the games. XII gives us the origins of the Lucavi as well as the fridge horror realization that it's Ashe's fault that they will eventually terrorize the world.
    How does it give us the origins of the Lucavi? I haven't played this game in years, so I don't recall this at all, unless it deals with the smashing of the Sun-Cryst maybe? That seems like an important event that should have consequences. . .
    It's in their bios in the Bestiary actually. It details their origins and the story of their fall, giving a little more background to each of them. As for in-story, technically every time you face one you're breaking the seal that has them trapped and with the Occurians gone by the end, it's very likely that once that party passed on, they had free reign on the planet. Fans speculate their return and a possible counter-offensive by the Occurians trying to reclaim Ivalice is the caused of the Great Cataclysm spoken of in FFTactics.

  2. #32

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    Alright, I relent. I'd say the short version is more what I was looking for then the long one, although the long one adds some decent details, it also includes things like backstory (which I consider more setting, than anything else) and stuff that barely contributes to the overall arc of the story (like going after Penelo or whatever). It tells a story, but not very well. In particular, far too much of that stuff is left until the 11th hour, by which point it appears hamfisted. Especially the stuff with Vayne. He simply doesn't appear enough in the game for any of the info connected to Venat or the Occuria to feel earned and it rather appears to come out of nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    I'm still pretty sure they never said anything like that unless we can determine the correct scene, but honestly, I've already shown that the in-game dictionary has stated that St. Ajora exists elsewhere in Ivalice at the timeframe of the game making it impossible for this to be a reference, so this is all a moot point anyway.
    You can be as pretty sure as you want. They don't say something like that, they say exactly that. It's a direct quote, except possibly some misspelling on the name. I'm pretty sure I can use your long summary to give an idea of the scene too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post


    Long and Detailed Version
    The team head to the Feywood and find Giruvegan where they discover the Occurians, an ancient race of godlike beings who rule Ivalice from the shadows. They learn that Venat is a rogue member of the group and has revealed their secrets to Vayne and the Empire so they wish to make Ashe the new Dynast King and give her the same Rite as Raithwall to claim her own Nethicite from the Sun Cryst on the condition she kills Venat and destroys the empire for good. They give her the Sword of Oaths as a sign of their trust in her.
    This is the most likely spot for it, but even if it's not that scene it definitely happened.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Fans speculate their return and a possible counter-offensive by the Occurians trying to reclaim Ivalice is the caused of the Great Cataclysm spoken of in FFTactics.
    I changed my mind, SE can make that game to tie the games together, I'll allow it.

    Also, another thought, if Saint Ajora is alive during the events of 12, doesn't that make the window for Ultima to join with him rather narrow? If he's already old enough to be preaching and dies at 20 according to the wiki, and Ultima wouldn't be free to track down a human host until after the events of 12, a host that isn't even in the same geographical area if I am understanding things correctly, there can't be more than a few years for them to link up. And looking at how the Lucavi operate in Tactics, they strike me as slow moving and manipulative, but Ajora is already collecting the Zodiac stones by the time of his death, so he would have broken character and been moving quite fast for a Lucavi. Also, thinking about it, aren't the summons you get in 12 linked to you via glyphs or something? Would Ultima even be free to find Ajora if she was already stuck to Ashe or Basche or something? O_o a

  4. #34
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    Cause I don't want you guys spinning in circles, this is the Saint scene Lord Golbez is talking about. Never played Tactics tho so I'll respectfully bow out of this St Ajora speculation thing. (Edit: I will admit tho, given that Ashe explicitly rejects being a saint I'd be surprised if history books or whatnot went on to call her that; sounds more likely the Occuria turned to someone else when losing Ashe as an option)

    Nice writeup btw, Kanno. Was kinda cool to relive the story through your summary.

  5. #35
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Venat calling her a saint here is really more metaphor than anything. And regardless of whether or not she rejects him here, Venat has no say in how history books record that. Not to mention the fact that this one like is the only think that could ever point to her being St. Ajora (WK has already posted the literature on that), so clinging to that for the sake of arguing that the world is full of contradictions is pretty baffling to me, honestly. There’s no contradiction - she really was never meant to be Ajora. Occam’s Razor.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Venat calling her a saint here is really more metaphor than anything. And regardless of whether or not she rejects him here, Venat has no say in how history books record that. Not to mention the fact that this one like is the only think that could ever point to her being St. Ajora (WK has already posted the literature on that), so clinging to that for the sake of arguing that the world is full of contradictions is pretty baffling to me, honestly. There’s no contradiction - she really was never meant to be Ajora. Occam’s Razor.

    I literally said "one line" right from the start. I also said, it's probably meant more as an allusion than to actually say she's Ajora, but the latter would be more interesting. And that was never part of my argument that the world is full of contradictions. I said it in response to someone talking about links (or lack thereof) between the games. In fact, I never said FFXII was full of contradictions at all to my recollection. I was talking about FFT background info when I mentioned contradictions.

    I did say something about things not "matching up" in that post, so I guess I can understand the confusion, but I only meant there's nothing else really matching up for her to be Ajora, not that there was a contradiction. The truth is out there, Scully.
    Last edited by Lord Golbez; 10-26-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  7. #37
    Happiness Hurricane!! Pike's Avatar
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    I love Ivalice as a setting in FFTA/FFTA2. I haven't been a big fan of the other games it's been used in though. But they definitely have the best version of moogles and really neat races and worldbuilding overall.

  8. #38
    Master of Kittens Galuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pike View Post
    I love Ivalice as a setting in FFTA/FFTA2. I haven't been a big fan of the other games it's been used in though. Although FFXIV:ARR was pretty good from what I've played (not much, admittedly). Was that Ivalice? I can't remember.
    No it is Eorzea/Hydealyn.
    Howver in Stormblood, a region of the land is called and based off of ivalice, a mix of Tactics and 12 and into its own thing. ofcourse it is unrelated to the real ivalice world.

  9. #39

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    I've never played FFXIV but from all the things drawn from different games it sounds almost like FF fanfiction to me.

  10. #40
    Master of Kittens Galuf's Avatar
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    literally only the omega raid is fanfiction tbh.
    And if XIV counts as fanfiction, then FF IX might as well be aswell.
    Last edited by Galuf; 10-27-2018 at 11:23 AM.

  11. #41

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    FFIX doesn't seem as overt or as thorough about it. FFIX has plenty of references, but you're not straight up fighting Kefka and stuff like that. Again, I haven't played the game though. I'll take your word that's all in Omega Raid, especially since I have no idea what that means.
    Last edited by Lord Golbez; 10-27-2018 at 02:33 PM.

  12. #42
    Master of Kittens Galuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    FFIX doesn't seem as overt or as thorough about it. FFIX has plenty of references, but you're not straight up fighting Kefka and stuff like that. Again, I haven't played the game though. I'll take your word that's all in Omega Raid, especially since I have no idea what that means.
    Well, the things you fight in XIV outside of the omega raid all ties into the world of XIV..
    In teh omega raid omega practically just summons smurfing kefka and exdeath and whatever, and i agree, it is stupid and lazy.


    atleast the fights are good.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    I've never played FFXIV but from all the things drawn from different games it sounds almost like FF fanfiction to me.
    Not enough weird sex to be a fanfiction.

  14. #44
    Crazy Scot. Cid's Knight Shauna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    I've never played FFXIV but from all the things drawn from different games it sounds almost like FF fanfiction to me.
    Not enough weird sex to be a fanfiction.
    You've never played, huh?

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