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Thread: Nomura Wants To Remake The Whole FFVII Compilation

  1. #16

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    Hopefully, we get this game by at least 2020.




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  2. #17

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    He just said it's a possibility, not that he's actually going to do it. And of course they're going to keep milking FF7 like they've been doing for over a decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Toriyama will direct it and make Zack just as angsty and gloomy as modern Cloud and Lightning
    I would laugh so hard if that happened. On the other hand it would fit in well with Cloud modelling himself after Zack being the reason he's so angsty and gloomy at the beginning of the game, so whatever.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Example View Post
    He just said it's a possibility, not that he's actually going to do it. And of course they're going to keep milking FF7 like they've been doing for over a decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Toriyama will direct it and make Zack just as angsty and gloomy as modern Cloud and Lightning
    I would laugh so hard if that happened. On the other hand it would fit in well with Cloud modelling himself after Zack being the reason he's so angsty and gloomy at the beginning of the game, so whatever.
    Cloud didn't model himself after Zack though, he got Zack's memories of the Nibelhiem event mixed with Zack's. Jenova made him think that he was Zack during the Nibelhiem event and that his dreams of becoming an awesome Shrina Solider came true. Cloud wanted to be like Zack, yeah, but Jenova made him believe that he was the Solider that Zack was. Cloud didn't even remember Zack when everybody went back to Gongaga, he didn't exist in Cloud's mind until Tifa puts him back together again in the Lifestream.

    Cloud has to ask Tifa who Zack was- and of course, being fear of Cloud having a huge breakdown, she lies to him. Though Tifa's memory was pretty awful, so we can't really blame her.

    I think people get confused because Cloud's true self-seen in the OG FFVII is a lot like Zack's Crisis Core personality. The cheerfulness, the jokes, the squat exercises- that's all Zack's personality now. Cloud's true self today seems to be being a git to people and saying " not interested " and walking away depressed.
    Last edited by maybee; 11-18-2018 at 08:49 AM.




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  4. #19

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    That idea of Zack doesn't fit with what was originally presented in FF7 alone. Cloud definitely behaved like how he perceived Zack to behave at least. Even if you can argue that we didn't really get a reliable firsthand account of what Zack was like in the past, Aeris says that Cloud reminded her of him at first, so it seems pretty clear his surface behavior was similar to that of Zack. Crisis Core and all the other compilation stuff is retcon as far as I'm concerned.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    That idea of Zack doesn't fit with what was originally presented in FF7 alone. Cloud definitely behaved like how he perceived Zack to behave at least. Even if you can argue that we didn't really get a reliable firsthand account of what Zack was like in the past, Aeris says that Cloud reminded her of him at first, so it seems pretty clear his surface behavior was similar to that of Zack. Crisis Core and all the other compilation stuff is retcon as far as I'm concerned.
    Sort of? Cloud copies and mimics his body language, but his carefree and bored, restless child-like persona, he doesn't. And we sort of do, with the OG flashback of Zack's death and Cloud and Zack on the truck and Zack speaking about starting a business with Cloud. Unless that is what you meant ??

    I think from memory Sephiroth/ Jenova says to Cloud that Jenova can copy body movement and body language. But I might be wrong here.

    Yeah, that's why Crisis Core drives me up the wall. All the rectconing just so players can "get the sad feels " when Zack goes. That and Genesis.




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  6. #21
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Cloud's persona for all of Disc 1 and the first third of Disc 2 is based on the persona and memories of both Zack and Sephiroth. The closest to the real Cloud you ever see is the loner kid in Tifa's childhood flashbacks, the embarrassed and sickly soldier during the Nibelheim flashback, and then basically the quiet, insecure, but sincere Cloud you have for the rest of the game.

    Cloud's personality we are first introduced to is basically what Cloud thinks a 1st Class SOLDIER should act, based on the only two 1st Class SOLDIERS we meet. Based on how Zack is portrayed in the one actual flashback he appears in, it's not a stretch to say that most of the "Cloud" we see in Cloud's version of the Nibelheim Incident, with the exception of his scene with his mother, Tifa's house, and his feelings once Sephy torches the town are all directly taken from Zack as he's pretty much a happy-go-lucky goofball.

    His standoffish and know-it-all persona in the beginning is likely based on Sephiroth, whereas his more heroic traits once he meets Aerith is likely a fusion of Zack and a bit of himself. In my last few playthroughs, I've come to the conclusion that Gloom Cloud is the real Cloud, as he loses a lot of his cocky gusto after his real past is revealed and he spends a lot of his time after that kind of second guessing himself as the leader but he's also a bit more empathetic. Cloud's basically a shy and quiet kid at heart and would have likely not have gone through with half the BS he did in the first half of the game had he been in charge. The few times you hear him speak to himself, he's kind of a Debbie Downer, though it's often hard to tell if that' him or Sephiroth unless you go by the Japanese script.

    The badass, snarky, motorcycle riding, Shin-Ra busting, macho, cross-dresser who swims with dolphins and goes on dates with half his own team is basically "ideal Cloud" not real Cloud.
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  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
    Yeah, that's why Crisis Core drives me up the wall. All the rectconing just so players can "get the sad feels " when Zack goes. That and Genesis.
    As if I didn't hate Genesis enough already, turns out Square chose to devote more time to him and Angeal (the guy who solely existed to give Zack the buster sword) over showing more scenes involving Zack and Cloud's escape to Midgar that would have deepened their connection. I'm trying to remain as positive as I can but hearing trout like this really makes me fear for the remake and the people in charge of it.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    I've come to the conclusion that Gloom Cloud is the real Cloud, as he loses a lot of his cocky gusto after his real past is revealed and he spends a lot of his time after that kind of second guessing himself as the leader but he's also a bit more empathetic. Cloud's basically a shy and quiet kid at heart and would have likely not have gone through with half the BS he did in the first half of the game had he been in charge

    I don't know. I mean, yeah he has low self-confidence and is a bit unconfident and is a bit shy around Tifa, but I don't know about Gloom Cloud being the real him.

    ......Aeris.
    She was smiling to the end.
    We have to do something, or that smile will just freeze like that.
    Let's all go together.
    Memories of Aeris......
    Although she should've returned to the planet by now, something stopped her and now she's stuck......
    We've got to let go of Aeris's memory.
    This a huge difference to Gloom Cloud's "Aerith died and it's all my fault and I feel guilty and I wanna be forgiven "

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    The few times you hear him speak to himself, he's kind of a Debbie Downer, though it's often hard to tell if that' him or Sephiroth unless you go by the Japanese script.
    Where can you find an English translation of the Japanese script?

    Quote Originally Posted by Example View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
    Yeah, that's why Crisis Core drives me up the wall. All the rectconing just so players can "get the sad feels " when Zack goes. That and Genesis.
    As if I didn't hate Genesis enough already, turns out Square chose to devote more time to him and Angeal (the guy who solely existed to give Zack the buster sword) over showing more scenes involving Zack and Cloud's escape to Midgar that would have deepened their connection. I'm trying to remain as positive as I can but hearing trout like this really makes me fear for the remake and the people in charge of it.
    Square Enix seems to have a boner for Gackt ( and Lightning )




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  9. #24
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    I've come to the conclusion that Gloom Cloud is the real Cloud, as he loses a lot of his cocky gusto after his real past is revealed and he spends a lot of his time after that kind of second guessing himself as the leader but he's also a bit more empathetic. Cloud's basically a shy and quiet kid at heart and would have likely not have gone through with half the BS he did in the first half of the game had he been in charge

    I don't know. I mean, yeah he has low self-confidence and is a bit unconfident and is a bit shy around Tifa, but I don't know about Gloom Cloud being the real him.

    ......Aeris.
    She was smiling to the end.
    We have to do something, or that smile will just freeze like that.
    Let's all go together.
    Memories of Aeris......
    Although she should've returned to the planet by now, something stopped her and now she's stuck......
    We've got to let go of Aeris's memory.
    This a huge difference to Gloom Cloud's "Aerith died and it's all my fault and I feel guilty and I wanna be forgiven "
    To be fair, in Advent Children, he is being mentally screwed with by Sephy still, but I agree that the whole thing feels like a retcon so they could add an emotional baggage to the character because the original game kind of made the party get over her death rather quickly in order to keep the plot going which is nothing new for the genre or Final Fantasy. I'm thinking more about how Cloud is portrayed in Dissidia or sadly even KH where he honestly always acts like he doesn't want to be there which is actually rather fitting to how Tifa actually describes him when she finally remembers the real Cloud. He's not really a go-get them kind of person after the real Cloud is revealed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    The few times you hear him speak to himself, he's kind of a Debbie Downer, though it's often hard to tell if that' him or Sephiroth unless you go by the Japanese script.
    Where can you find an English translation of the Japanese script?
    Probably over at the Lifestream.net, but the reason I mention the Japanese script is because Cloud and Sephy talk differently so if you knew the grammar, you could easily tell which is speaking to him based on pronouns or particles they use, though I wouldn't be surprised if Cloud actually uses two different ones. This is simply something lost in translation and wouldn't work in English without seriously embellishing both their personalities to make it easier to discern, so chances are all the dialogue is translated correctly in the English script to some degree. This actually happens a lot and sometimes we do get some work on it. Cyan's "Mr. Thou" speak was Woosely trying to translate the fact Cyan speaks in old archaic Japanese which is only used in modern times in plays about traditional samurai. Kefka's "voice" is kind of lost in English, which is likely why Woosely toned up the humor and his psychotic nature a bit because Kefka switches from using a dialogue structure used by innocent kids and one that's more of a sinister adult for example.

    Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a script that makes this distinction if not a thread topic lying around somewhere. The forum member Sephiroth would likely know this better than I do, so you may want to ask him.
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  10. #25

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    Hmmm....but Sephiroth doesn't really act that way at first in the flashback. Maybe a little aloof, but he definitely doesn't give off that "I don't care about anything" vibe that Cloud does at the beginning of the game. Of course, you can chalk that up to Cloud's interpretation, I suppose. It is true that he doesn't act the same way when he first meets Aeris. Cocky, but he doesn't blow her off or anything. So him reminding her of Zack doesn't mean the "I don't care" attitude came from Zack, but it's not clear where it came from. The heroic impulse does come from Cloud himself too though. He did take out Sephiroth in the past too, after all.

    Also, I'm not really sure what you all mean by Gloom Cloud. Is this an actual side of Cloud that appears in the game or something from crap like Advent Children? If it's the latter I'm not acknowledging it as a real aspect of Cloud at all, either from imitating Zack or himself.
    Last edited by Lord Golbez; 11-20-2018 at 10:15 PM.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    Hmmm....but Sephiroth doesn't really act that way at first in the flashback. Maybe a little aloof, but he definitely doesn't give off that "I don't care about anything" vibe that Cloud does at the beginning of the game. Of course, you can chalk that up to Cloud's interpretation, I suppose. It is true that he doesn't act the same way when he first meets Aeris. Cocky, but he doesn't blow her off or anything.
    Though Aerith is Zack's ex-girlfriend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post

    Also, I'm not really sure what you all mean by Gloom Cloud. Is this an actual side of Cloud that appears in the game or something from crap like Advent Children? If it's the latter I'm not acknowledging it as a real aspect of Cloud at all, either from imitating Zack or himself.
    Yeah, Gloom Cloud is what we see in Advent Children, Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts. Though in KH that was originally supposed to be Vincent, SE wanted Cloud to give KH more attention and instead of deleting Vincent, they just gave Cloud is clothes and personality.

    Though in Dissidia NT he does seem to be cracking jokes a little, sort of like he did in the OG.




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  12. #27
    Slothstronaut Slothy's Avatar
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    Well I'm late to this party. On the one hand remaking things that mostly sucked at least gives them the chance to suck less.

    But on the other hand no. Just smurfing no. Square barely releases any games worth playing on anything resembling a regular basis as it is it seems. Why screw yourselves even more by making those infrequent releases remakes of things we already know blow chunks?

  13. #28
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    Given the entire point of FFVII's story is to slowly feed you information about the backstory (and quickly at other times), I highly doubt they would remake Crisis Core before VII:R, nor would they include it in the one game in chronological order.

    I liked Crisis Core. I didn't like Genesis, but I don't like many villains in Final Fantasy games. Angeal, the Zack/Aerith relationship, stuff like that? That was awesome. I'd be interested in a remake someday, probably.

    For now, though, people need to stop jumping onto everything a developer says when given a leading question. It's just as dumb as when, in sports, people ask the managers of teams after a game if they thought the referee was bad, and it's literally a fineable offence for the manager to say that the referee was bad. Don't blame someone for answering a question.

    EDIT: For anyone convinced that Square-Enix (as the company they are today) can't do "confident Cloud" right, they did him fantastically in World of Final Fantasy. Don't write them off before the game is out. And remember, this is not the gamest game in the world - this is just a tribute. Treat it for what it is, and if you want to play the original game, play it. Don't worry about the new one if you don't want to have a new one.
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  14. #29
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    Remake Crisis Core so that Genesis never existed

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