Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30

Thread: Why do people disliked modern Square Enix?

  1. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    because final fantasy is a troutty series?
    Why are people saying this? You guys alright?




    "You okay?"

  2. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    because final fantasy is a troutty series?
    ^

    I'll start likin' 'em when they start making mainline FF games again that don't suck. For the record I don't think EVERYTHING Square Enix has done is bad. Just that far too much of it is.

  3. #18
    Master of Kittens Galuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Shot land.
    Posts
    3,521
    Blog Entries
    3

    FFXIV Character

    Galuf Luna (Sargatanas)

    Default

    Cos we are all cynical adults


    Just me? trout, i forgot im an adult now.

  4. #19
    Ghost of Christmas' past theundeadhero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    In Jojee's pants x_~
    Posts
    15,409

    FFXIV Character

    Lagooshka Luvtruck (Zalera)
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight
    • Former Senior Site Staff

    Default

    They used to make games I enjoy playing. The last several games I did not enjoy playing. Saying they don't make good games anymore is as simple as that.
    ...

  5. #20
    Slothstronaut Slothy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    I'm in space
    Posts
    13,478
    Blog Entries
    27
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffington View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    When other AAA games get sequels within a few years, I think a 10 year development cycle on a Square game that still releases arguably unfinished is worthy of criticism.
    Oh, we're counting sequels then? Cool, this changes things.

    2009-2010: Final Fantasy XIII
    2010: Final Fantasy XIV (original release)
    2011-2012: Final Fantasy XIII-2
    2013: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (complete relaunch of the original FF14)
    2013-2014: Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
    2015: Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward (expansion)
    2016: Final Fantasy XV
    2017: Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood
    2019: Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers

    Essentially, over the past decade we've had 10 new entries in the Final Fantasy series.

    If you want to exclude Final Fantasy XIV altogether, that still leaves you with four Final Fantasy titles within a span of 6 years. I'm also excluding all of the story content that has been released for Final Fantasy XV over the years.

    Considering game development can take 3-5 years or even longer, that's pretty damn good.

    But setting this aside, your premise doesn't really apply to Final Fantasy. This isn't a series based on games getting sequels; each new installment might as well be a reboot because nothing about the previous installment is retained in the next title. So you can't exactly suggest "well other game developers release sequels in just 2-3 years, so Square Enix should too!" because Final Fantasy isn't a series where one story is continued across multiple mainline games. And when that does happen in the Final Fantasy series, when they do make sequels to mainline installments, guess what? It only takes them 2 years. Just as good as -- if not better than -- any other game developer.

    So yeah. It's illogical to criticize Square Enix for this.
    It's not illogical to criticize them for failing to make new main entries in under 10 years when it takes them 10 years to make a mainline entry. That totally different teams produced some slapdash sequels in shorter amounts of time is irrelevant to that. It's also not relevant when you hate the game the sequels are based on leaving you completely disinterested in said sequels.

    And it's worth keeping in mind that almost no developer takes 10 years to make a game even now. That's 100% pure bred Squenix right there.

  6. #21

    Default

    bUt thEY mAdE cRisIS cORE whIcH iS a MaSterPieCe !!!!




    "You okay?"

  7. #22
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Nowhere and Everywhere
    Posts
    17,918
    Articles
    58
    Blog Entries
    21
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    I was really trying my best to avoid this thread but boredom got the better of me it seems.

    In terms of development turnaround, SE itself has admitted that all of their mainline games from XII-XV have suffered from behind the scenes issues and that's why the games seem to take so long to produce. The Ultimania and certain interviews pretty much point to the fact that in addition to the demands that new technology has brought to development, that SE has internal issues as well that seem to be linked to the fact that they are still trying to make these games like they did twenty years ago when they had a tenth of the staff and easier hardware to work with.

    XII was delayed because of the programming issues of trying to build an MMO scaled world on the PS2 without the use of the HUD peripheral that XI used, as well as the very well known resignation of it's director halfway through the game's development which left the remaining team needing to finish the plot and direction of the title.

    XIII suffered from being pushed back to a next gen console which made what little early development on it obsolete. Was built simultaneously with the finnicky Crystal Tools engine which kept delaying the game's development and ended up being so tailored made for XIII that it was deemed unusable for the vXIII developers. The game also suffered from mismanagement, most notable being the fact the game didn't even have a real core gameplay concept until the demo was made a year before the game's release. There is also the apocryphal story of an artist spending months making a rock fixture that is only on the screen for five seconds in a cutscene showing that priorities on the project were pretty skewed.

    XIV suffered from such misguided management that it's original director had to resign to save face, the game had to go under a two year retool to get back into the black, and this retool ultimately delayed every AAA project in the companies pipeline and was likely the direct cause for why vXIII ended being rebranded. Yoshi-P again mentions that resources were being used poorly as developers over-emphasized graphical quality which ended up creating several of the game's server issues, as well as the director ignoring many of the quality of life enhancements that the MMO genre had experienced over the decade since WoW hit the scene. This game's original performance issues hit the company so hard, they're still paying for it.

    XV doesn't really need an introduction on it's development problems, but much like the last two games, one thing gleamed from the interviews with the director is the recurring story of SE having a poor management style which causes a lot of the development problems. Director Tabata spends just as much time discussing the issues with trying to fix the development side of things as he was just redesigning the ten year old relic. He discusses issues of entitlement and poor accountability among his department heads as well as an overall issue of management not keeping everyone on the same page which has been a recurring issue echoed in the Ultimania interviews for XIII and XIV.

    As for the issues of Square-Enix as a whole, I feel my personal issues stem from just the simple fact that all of the designers I loved from the 90s era have all left the company for the most part by 2005. This combined with SE's desire to really stick to just the safe bet entries for over a decade by simply making sequels, trying to turn numbered FFs into mini-franchises, and often being too afraid to make anything non-mobile that doesn't have the FF moniker on it because they're too afraid of taking any kind of loss has largely disillusioned me from the company. When you think back to what Square was producing in the 90s, it's hard to think of a really bad entry of their high profile titles and the company had several non-FF themed franchises going for it as well. Sure they had some low profile duds of course, but I don't think we can even argue the fact that most of SE's best known IPs and beloved games stem from this era almost exclusively. On the other hand, it's really difficult to name maybe ten really fantastic first party games made by SE since 2000 that most fans would be like "oh yeah, that's a great game!". That's not to say SE doesn't make good games, but I also feel it's obvious that both the fans and even some of the developers would rather dwell on past glories than anything new. The fact that most fans were more interested in a remake of a 20 year old game over the announcement of a new installment says many things about where fans feel the franchise is.

    Overall, I feel the biggest difference between SE now and Square from the old days is both the fact that the company is more profit driven, which itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but more importantly, it just doesn't feel like it has people working there who just want to make cool games, instead, everything feels like it's kind of got through this marketing filter to be acceptable for release. Square led the industry, but SE just feels like another rank and file member of it.

  8. #23

    Default

    Definitely agree about change in designers though not completely on "left." I do think Sakaguchi's departure, for example, was a significant blow. However, I think Kitase stepping back from the position of director was probably an equally significant if not greater issue. I was greatly disappointed to hear Nomura would be helming the FFVII remake instead of Kitase. The series took a nosedive IMO when Kitase moved on to producer roles.

  9. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slothy View Post
    It's not illogical to criticize them for failing to make new main entries in under 10 years when it takes them 10 years to make a mainline entry. That totally different teams produced some slapdash sequels in shorter amounts of time is irrelevant to that. It's also not relevant when you hate the game the sequels are based on leaving you completely disinterested in said sequels.

    And it's worth keeping in mind that almost no developer takes 10 years to make a game even now. That's 100% pure bred Squenix right there.
    1. It hasn't taken them 10 years to make a new mainline entry in the post-Final Fantasy X era.

    -> FF12 started development in late 2000, and released in 2006-2007. That's about 5-5.5 years of development time.
    -> FF13 started development in early 2004, and released around 2009-2010. That's about 5-5.5 years of development time, give or take.
    -> FF14 (the original release) started development in 2005, and released in 2010. That's about 4-5 years of development time.
    -> FF14: A Realm Reborn started development in 2011, and it released in 2013. That's about 2 years of development time, which is an impressive turnaround.
    -> FF Versus XIII began development in 2006, but that game never saw the light of day. Instead, we got:
    -> FF15, which technically began development around 2012-2013 when Tabata took over the project. It released in 2016, so it took about 4 years of development time from when Tabata took over.

    2. The original comment I was replying to was talking about AAA games getting sequels within a few years.

    -> Pointing out that Square Enix has produced multiple sequels to their AAA Final Fantasy titles is very relevant to the original comment I was responding to.
    -> Referring to them as "slapdash" sequels is both dismissive and false, considering sequels such as Final Fantasy XIII-2 introduce a breadth of entirely new content and mechanics.

    3. You being disinterested in the original game and the sequels doesn't in any way dismiss my points.

    -> You're well within your rights to dislike Square Enix Final Fantasy titles, but they have definitely demonstrated that they can produce both mainline titles and sequels to said mainline titles within a reasonable timeframe.

    4. You're right. And Square Enix is one of those developers that does not take 10 years to make a new game.
    Last edited by Scruffington; 04-06-2019 at 03:40 AM.


    Pull my Devil Trigger!

  10. #25

    Default

    I think judging FFXV as developed from 2006-2016 is perfectly fair. Regardless of whether they had to start from scratch in 2012 and other structural changes, those issues are all on Square and it's fair to hold them accountable rather than saying they get to reset the clock on themselves by changing the project title and direction. Also, they definitely didn't start 100% from scratch. I remember seeing the characters of FFXV in the videos for FF Versus XIII. Even if they had to rebuild character models, they clearly didn't scrap the whole conception of what they had previously.

  11. #26
    Slothstronaut Slothy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    I'm in space
    Posts
    13,478
    Blog Entries
    27
    Contributions
    • Former Cid's Knight

    Default

    Calling FFXIV a mainline FF game is honestly a tad laughable. It's a spinoff in a different genre that they slapped a number on to draw people in. It'd be like expecting a new Half-Life game and getting Fortnite. And trying to pretend that FFXV wasn't in development for more than ten years because it got a name change and some team shakeups part way through is a tad disingenuous.

    Also, the FFXIII sequels were slapdash sequels to a slapdash game. FFXIII didn't even have a clear direction until about 18-24 months before release, it was remarkably half-assed and poorly made, and instead of developing newer better games they released a couple of quick sequels to take advantage of the fact that at least they'd already built an engine, didn't have to think too hard about writing the world since the foundation was already set, and they could cannibalize as many assets as they wanted to make life easier. So yeah, sequels slapped together in short order to make more money on a game that was slapped together in under two years because as usual Squenix sat on their asses with no direction and accomplishing nothing for years before they realized people expected them to actually make a game out of it. I'm also not particularly impressed that they can have all of these separate teams working on all of these separate games and it still takes them at least twice as long to make a game as anyone else can get it done.

  12. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slothy View Post
    Calling FFXIV a mainline FF game is honestly a tad laughable. It's a spinoff in a different genre that they slapped a number on to draw people in.
    Except it is a mainline Final Fantasy game. Just because you don't like MMOs doesn't invalidate it as a Final Fantasy game. There are plenty of people -- even here on EoFF -- who could tell you that it is 100% deserving of the Final Fantasy name.

    It'd be like expecting a new Half-Life game and getting Fortnite.
    False equivalency. FF14 is still very much an RPG at its core like every other Final Fantasy game, it has a multitude of elements from the Final Fantasy series in it, and it still emphasizes its story as the focal point of the game. It's a Final Fantasy game in every respect.

    And trying to pretend that FFXV wasn't in development for more than ten years because it got a name change and some team shakeups part way through is a tad disingenuous.
    Not really. Versus XIII was in development hell for years. It didn't become the next mainline game until 2012-2013, when the entire development focus shifted and they brought Tabata in to complete the game.

    Even if it did take the actual 10 years to make FFXV as you're suggesting: So what? I don't see much value in getting this worked up over it. The game has been out for nearly 3 years at this point. Even I was disappointed with it, but it's a still a decent game and it was well received.

    Also, the FFXIII sequels were slapdash sequels to a slapdash game.
    They really weren't, but okay.

    FFXIII didn't even have a clear direction until about 18-24 months before release, it was remarkably half-assed and poorly made
    It really wasn't, but okay.

    and instead of developing newer better games they released a couple of quick sequels to take advantage of the fact that at least they'd already built an engine, didn't have to think too hard about writing the world since the foundation was already set, and they could cannibalize as many assets as they wanted to make life easier.
    Except most people who disliked the original XIII considered XIII-2 a massive improvement over the original because it alleviated their concerns about linearity, but sure. FF13 bad and Square Enix bad, I guess.


    Pull my Devil Trigger!

  13. #28
    Wildökarudo Mercen-X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    8,630
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    I've long admired the next-gen approach to video games, with life-like character and world depictions and smooth graphics and I still look forward to playing FF7RE, however, when considering the cost of time and money which I had obviously never truly gave thought to as a teenager, as I am older now and frustrated by these troubles, I have begun to back more fondly on the simpler depictions. I think what modding community did with FF7, clunky and obfuscating system was epic and Square Enix released more titles to PC, we probably would see a lot more of this.

    I used to dream of creating my own videogame with lifelike depictions of characters but lately, I've come to accept that they could look just as appealing in super-deformed sprite mode, with some original character art in the menus or during dialogue, and hell maybe a couple of fully rendered movies just for the oomph. Though I still believe the battle animations should look like 10% more dynamic that what you'd see while traversing the map. I'm just gonna ride off into the sunset now before this rant goes into questionable territory...

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...2&&FORM=VDRVRV

    Deadpool:
    As a mercenary, my first loyalty is to my hand. My right hand to be precise. Don't tell lefty, he gets jealous.
    My pal, Dexter, and I have had a longstanding on-and-off romance. I've proposed to her multiple times but she always says she's still young and wants to explore her sexuality while men are still interested. Well, men and women. She strokes both ways. That's a double entendre.

  14. #29
    Wildökarudo Mercen-X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    8,630
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    One more thing in regard to XI and XIV. If Square Enix were to release non-MMO spinoffs of those titles, I would buy that schet up so fast. I don't care if it made only the vaguest of references to the original storyline or if ended up feeling like I was playing .hack//GU Resurrection again (a weird experience after four years since playing the original trilogy). I suppose you could say I'm not one for community so I dislike MMORPGs, but I love Final Fantasy and I just tend to feel it is unfair that I'm made to choose to forego a main title or be saddled with an experience I really don't enjoy. There's that.

  15. #30
    DMKA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    11,286

    FFXIV Character

    Efes Ephesus (Adamantoise)

    Default

    There are legitimate criticisms to be had about the recent Final Fantasy games and about Square Enix as a whole, but I think much of the unbridled seething hate you hear hurled toward them these days is the simple fact that they're one of the big guys now. They're reviled for most of the same reasons Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, Activision, etc. are. They're huge and wield way too much publishing power over way too many beloved/once beloved franchises and the way they've been handling them in recent years (particularly in regard to their love for mobile and microtransations) is questionable.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •