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Thread: Final boss battles you feel the series did right?

  1. #16
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rez09 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Actually Neo-Exdeath was a pretty stellar final boss. Easy if you knew what your were doing, but a total dick if you didn't. The fact he's designed to screw over players who felt they could just use the broken Duel-Wield/Rapidfire/Flare trick for an easy one round victory was gold and something I feel more final bosses should do. Kind of reminds me of the Philemon boss battle in Persona 2:EP where he will counter the most game breaking Fusion Attack with his own version.
    Oh? What did Exdeath do to counter that? I know he is multipart, so excess damage might be wasted, but I don't remember much else of note he really did, other than being deathly allergic to gill toss. <_______<
    It wasn't like a counter or anything, it's the fact that even though you could kill parts of him, their targeting never went away, so while the first round would guarantee two parts would be destroyed, the fact those defeated parts were still targeted and Rapidfire is randomized for targeting meant the move became less effective as the fight went on. You could have Neo ExDeath down to his last part, and watch as all eight hits "missed" him because they kept trying to hit the defeated parts instead of what remained, and that I felt was a great trick because it forced you to play differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
    I generally prefer a little more challenge with my final bosses, which is why I've been pleasantly surprised by SaGa since it delivers on that promise. Granted, I feel the games could do a better job of preparing you for said challenge. The Egg and the Seven Heroes were awesome boss battles that really tested all my skills and made me appreciate the game mechanics better.
    Sadly though, it is really inconsistent through the series, sometimes via intention and sometimes due to bugs/oversight. Saruin in RS1 has the potential to be an absolute monster of a boss and was intended to also be the game's super boss if you gave him the Obsidian Sword, but his poor AI and any form of water immunity render the fight completely negligible. The same is largely true of the final boss in RS3, as it was also designed as both the normal final boss and super boss, depending on player action, but they forgot to work with hp thresholds and most of the 'super' form of the boss fight can just be skipped. . _. That said, some of the Frontier bosses were well done and have solid gimmicks, like one swapping between physical and magical resistance or another gaining strength as you kill off its minions. But, yeah, on the whole I feel SaGa has done final bosses better.
    It sometimes still works out better than more conventional RPGs. My usual gripe is that most of the final boss battles are pretty easy if you utilize support/debuff magic, but since very few bosses in the main game ever require that strategy, it can feel daunting when you tackle a final boss. Even still, in recent memories, I've yet to have a SaGa final boss for me that didn't end with me barely winning with the skin of my teeth.

    The Egg alone was just a nightmare since several of it's attacks hit your LP directly, so you really do only have a limited amount of time to taken them down or the battle is utterly lost. The Seven Heroes were just a nightmare because you would sometimes discover too late that while trying to build a proper defense for their early phases, they would pull off a few killer special moves late in the battle you would not be prepared for. Of anything, I appreciate the fact that the SaGa final bosses really feel more like endurance matches similar to Cloud of Darkness in the Famicom version, where the tension is really hoping you don't run out of SP/MP before the final boss goes down.

    How do you all feel about super bosses relative to final bosses?
    I've never been fond of them to be honest, I think a lot of that stems from how they are built nowadays. In contrast to my last paragraph, I don't like them being built as endurance matches. By which I mean I hate when an optional boss is sporting millions of hp just to drag the fight on. I also hate when the game creates special moves specifically to deal with the optional bosses because I often feel it skews the game's challenge overall. I often find that part of the reason some final bosses are so weak is because I get easy access to skills or abilities that are really designed for the optional challenges. Final Fantasy is especially egregious about this but other series are just as guilty.

    The other type of superboss I find annoying is just the ones that have a very specific pattern, so as long as you know the pattern, you can almost guarantee victory. It's exciting the first time going in blind, but once you know the trick, they become easy prey afterwards.

    I feel that's why I really love Omega and Shinryu in FFV, because both fights are really more about utilizing the tools available to win, and likewise, the battles are going to be fast one way or the other and never drag on. Omega is about knowing your abilities while Shinryu is about equipping your party well to cover weaknesses. Even though Omega even requires a pretty game breaking special to beat him, as I mentioned above, Neo ExDeath has defenses in place to keep it from breaking him. Other than that, I prefer optional superbosses in games like the Souls series or Bloodborne since they're more skilled based along with equipment, so victory is never always guaranteed unless you just become a zen master of the game.

  2. #17

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    Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I always found that whether I beat Omega or not pretty much comes down to random conditions more than anything else. One way or the other the battle is over extremely quickly. I can have a different result using the same exact strategy just based on random differences in how the battle starts.

  3. #18
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I always found that whether I beat Omega or not pretty much comes down to random conditions more than anything else. One way or the other the battle is over extremely quickly. I can have a different result using the same exact strategy just based on random differences in how the battle starts.
    There is a bit of a random factor for beating Omega but there are also numerous strategies with a wide variety of builds that can take him out as well which is what I enjoy about him. Skills like Romeo's Ballad can inflict Stop on him with high accuracy, he's weak to thunder, and using a chemist can also just trounce his stats. He's actually pretty fun boss because there are several strong strategies to beat him and the only move he really has that will likely screw you over is Encircle, but that's why you bring someone with Time Magic. I often find the issue with many of FFs superbosses is that there is usually only one real strategy to win or two at best, often opting for the one that kills them the fastest because SE started turning them into health sponge bosses, so people stick to pragmatic and often boring strategies to win over more creative ones.

    The true beauty of fights like Omega and Shinryu in FFV is that by the second or third round, you should have a pretty good grasp of where the battle is going which I appreciate.

  4. #19
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    FF IV had a pretty intimidating final boss, tho not sure if that was just cause I started to lose patience with all the goddamn masks and behemoths and started running from random encounters. Still beat him first try, but only by a hair.

    Other than that I'd say Necron is the toughest final boss, given the amount of trout he can throw at you you likely don't have any protection against. He somehow manages to generally be a really tense fight while still not overwhelming you completely, and feeling perfectly beatable the whole way through.

    Most other final bosses are underwhelming in a way, in particular since the only way you'll have a challenging fight with them is if you don't spend time on side content. That's where superbosses come into play and I do feel the series has some pretty good ones. I made a Top 5 list on this a while ago, but I'd say the series' best are the Judge Magisters in FF XII IZJS/TZA, and Chac in FFX-2, in particular because they pretty much not fall into the traps that Wolf Kanno described; not that they are without issue, but they are so damn satisfying to overcome.

    Omega and Shinryu I feel are a bit too far in the other direction; they have a similar problem to me as Ozma in FF IX. The fight is most likely not going to last more than a couple rounds, either you overwhelm them, or they overwhelm you, it's mostly both sides launching at each other attacks that they can't last through if they don't finish it quickly. I don't even think Rapid Fire is the biggest problem in FFV, I'd say it's Dance; it does 4x normal damage IIRC which means you don't need any buffs to hit for max damage, and while you only have a 50% chance to get Sword Dance, it can be targeted and will never miss (and unless you're facing a Zombie boss it's not like the other two dances are really bad either).

    For me the perfect superboss is kinda like a dance, where you have to control the rhythm of the battle and be able to counter everything they throw at you, without having it get stale. I think it's fine for it to just be superbosses being that way though; final bosses have the burden of concluding the narrative and a deep dive into perfecting the player's gameplay would be out of place. Superbosses are kinda the game's best opportunity to push the challenge to its limits.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karifean View Post
    FF IV had a pretty intimidating final boss, tho not sure if that was just cause I started to lose patience with all the goddamn masks and behemoths and started running from random encounters. Still beat him first try, but only by a hair.

    Edge is definitely your friend during that last stretch of the final dungeon before Zeromus. He'll drop like a sack of potatoes during the actual fight though.

  6. #21
    draper hates the caley Cell's Avatar
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    I found Griever/Ultimecia a bit of a slog until I figured out I could just refine cards and use Holy War Trials.

    Most final bosses in the FF series are pretty forgettable. From easy (Sephiroth) to pointless (Yu Yevon). Neo Exdeath is one of the better ones.
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