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Thread: Maybee's Top 30 Final Fantasy Ladies List !

  1. #31

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    I agree. WK wrote a thread about whether Laguna, Kiros, and Ward should have been permanent party members, but for my money, I would have chosen Edea for that role. Too bad Rinoa gets her powers and also gets the limit break that seems to more clearly characterize what "real" magic as opposed to "para-magic" is. Edea's sorcery is just one single spell, that as far as I know is always the same every time you use it. By contrast, Rinoa's Angel Wing can use a bunch of different spells and use them at five times power without losing stock. Now that's sorcery. Although, it kind of raises the question, if Rinoa got her powers after they fought, why can Edea even use the sorcery limit break when she joins your party at all? Residual powers?

  2. #32
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    I love Edea, and I really wish the game had dropped Ultimecia and just let Edea we meet in the first disc be the villain. She had way better presence and really sold the idea of the Witches being otherworldly. There was some real conflict here that could have made for some great story telling and instead, it gets wasted so all that buildup can be tossed aside for the PSX's throw away villain. Edea was robbed.

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  3. #33

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    It's a fair point. However, getting rid of Ultimecia would change the plot so dramatically it's impossible to say what course the plot would take with Edea as the villain. They'd probably have to change her whole backstory too because it wouldn't make sense if Edea was the true villain. It would he a cascading affect that would lead to a completely different story. Disc 1 could probably be kept mostly intact. After that....who knows?
    Last edited by Lord Golbez; 05-28-2019 at 09:48 PM.

  4. #34
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    It's a fair point. However, getting rid of Ultimecia would change the plot so dramatically it's impossible to say what course the plot would take with Edea as the villain. They'd probably have to change her whole backstory too because it wouldn't make sense if Edea was the true villain. It would he a cascading affect that would lead to a completely different story. Disc 1 could probably be kept mostly intact. After that....who knows?
    The first two discs would remain the same, we don't even know about Ultimecia until Disc 3, and frankly I feel that's about the point where the story kind of loses itself anyway.
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  5. #35

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    That doesn't really matter. The whole orphanage and Cid's wife plot points, plus SeeD being Edea's idea? Those wouldn't make a lot of sense without Ultimecia. Sure you could come up with other explanations but it's hamfisting an explanation that was never meant to exist. It's obvious those plot points were intended to foreshadow Ultimecia and keeping them while changing Edea to the true villain would be clumsy. I'm not sure the whole interrogating SeeD members about SeeD's purpose in the prison makes that much sense without Ultimecia either (definitely doesn't if you keep that it was Edea who came up wih it, but even without that, don't know she has a reason to ask the question). It could be incorporated, but might be better to change it. You don't need a character to be mentioned for their existence to direct the plot. Disc 2 should probably be changed dramatically to fit an Edea as main villain game. Then there's the matter of Edea being defeated at the end of disc 2. Could be kept. Wouldn't be the first time an RPG villain bounced back from apparent defeat, but it's something to think about in terms of reworking.

  6. #36
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    That doesn't really matter. The whole orphanage and Cid's wife plot points, plus SeeD being Edea's idea? Those wouldn't make a lot of sense without Ultimecia. Sure you could come up with other explanations but it's hamfisting an explanation that was never meant to exist. It's obvious those plot points were intended to foreshadow Ultimecia and keeping them while changing Edea to the true villain would be clumsy. I'm not sure the whole interrogating SeeD members about SeeD's purpose in the prison makes that much sense without Ultimecia either (definitely doesn't if you keep that it was Edea who came up wih it, but even without that, don't know she has a reason to ask the question). It could be incorporated, but might be better to change it. You don't need a character to be mentioned for their existence to direct the plot. Disc 2 should probably be changed dramatically to fit an Edea as main villain game. Then there's the matter of Edea being defeated at the end of disc 2. Could be kept. Wouldn't be the first time an RPG villain bounced back from apparent defeat, but it's something to think about in terms of reworking.
    Not much would actually need to be changed. If a sorceress is a figure to be feared and the only other sorceress we know of is Adel who was bat trout crazy, it's likely Edea could have created SeeD because she would know she would have to be hunted one day, that or Cid created SeeD because he knew she would go crazy one day. Honestly, none of the foreshadowing would actually change because even the player doesn't learn what SeeD's true purpose was until Disc 2, and even then, the story has it built up as Cid needing to take down his wife. Neither him nor Edea knew about Ultimecia's whole mind control nonsense, so she could very easily be written out because what little foreshadowing she has is done as a red herring throughout the first two discs until she's finally revealed at the beginning of Disc 3. Nothing major would have to be changed in Disc 2 because it is revealed why SeeD exists and was kept a secret, and Edea is being built up as the big bad throughout. No one knows Ultimecia helped inspired its creation until the ending anyway as there are no in-game references to suggest it until then.

    I'm not implying that the whole second half of the game would not be re-written, but I am saying that Ultimecia feels like a cop out solution to a much more interesting dilemma the game spends the first two discs setting up, and then squanders by pulling a Zemus on us. Leaving the conflict between Squall's group and Edea would be more of an emotional conflict and the whole Orphanage and memory loss twists could easily be better integrated into such a scenario rather than being cheap thrills that have little impact beyond their initial bombshell nature. VIII could have had a much more visceral impact on the player if it stuck to Squall needing to kill a mother figure.

    If you want an easier cop out solution, I'd say just drop Ultimecia and have Adel be the main villain. She has a motive, power, and it wouldn't be the first time a major antagonist spent most of the game sealed away and brain washing people to set them free. We would just end up dropping the fourth Disc and make Lunatic Pandora the final dungeon with some rewrites about Edea and Rinoa being controlled by her instead.
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  7. #37
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    But Ultimecia is Rinoa how could you claim she has no interesting dilemma!

  8. #38

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    18- Lulu





    The legend, the Goth Queen, the only woman in Spira who listens to Marilyn Manson on her Sphere- Phone. The only woman who knows all the words to Papa Roach's Last Resort. Lulu is a character that I wasn't personally fond of at first, too bitchy, too catty, too rude, too harsh, but then you learn as to why she's bitter towards life and everything around it, expect for her sister-y love towards Yuna. It's because she's lost her parents, because she's lost her fiance. While Lulu might have a "edge-y" design and appearance, she never really comes off that way, more gothic, like mentioned above. Lulu just comes off as hurt. Hurt emotionally. Lulu knows that life in Spira is a tragedy, a rough tragedy. She also has the pain and regret of failing to be a Guardian to her past Summoners more than once. She really, just wants Yuna, to be okay, and her learning of Yuna's choice to become a Summoner must of caused her even more bitterness, frustration and sorrow.

    Lulu is pretty high up on the list though, because over time, her sisterly love towards Yuna really shines, and she really starts to see hope and more respect within Tidus. Speaking of Tidus, again, that's why she comes off as "bitchy" from first glance, because Tidus "supposedly" ( he really doesn't FFX/ Square, but okay) looks like her past lover, and you would be confused and angry too.

    Lulu despite her hurt nature, just slowly and carefully shines as a good "sister" towards Yuna, and a good friend towards Tidus and the whole team. Unfortunately, once you teach Yuna Black Magic, she becomes basically useless.


    Still, Lulu is still the best tiddy Goth GF in Final Fantasy.
    Last edited by maybee; 05-29-2019 at 09:21 PM.




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  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karifean View Post
    But Ultimecia is Rinoa how could you claim she has no interesting dilemma!
    Pu-lease. We all know that Ultimecia is Zell's hairdresser.




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  10. #40
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    Tidus not only resembles her past lover, he also claims to be from a place that doesn't exist, makes a first impression through breaking the traditions she looks up to, and Wakka very obviously gives him special treatment for more reasons than one which is not a great start to a pilgrimage where they're supposed to be on their smurfing guard at all times. It doesn't take much suspension of disbelief that she acts the way she does towards him, and while she may snap at him a few times she does overall show a tremendous amount of patience in explaining stuff to him and opens up more and more to giving him the benefit of the doubt especially in Kilika and beyond.

    She and Wakka are ultimately very similar overall. Even though Lulu has more experience with Spira overall and has a more open mind - which probably led to Yuna feeling comfortable telling her about her half-heritage - she still absolutely clings to the teachings to cope with the pain and suffering she and the people around her go through. Rather the main difference between them which comes up more than once is that Lulu inclines towards blaming herself, while Wakka tends to blame other people or things, which shows more than anything in how they deal with Chappu's death (although also in other things such as how they deal with Yuna getting repeatedly kidnapped by Al Bhed).

    Goddamnit Final Fantasy X has such an amazing cast.

  11. #41
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    Lulu is easily my favorite girl in FFX, not counting one side character, and for me that's not a terribly difficult accomplishment because her competition stank in that game.

    Funny enough, I actually like her solely because of her stand offish and bitchy attitude. Girl after my own heart. The goth aesthetic doesn't hurt either. Yet, I always feel bad how undersold Lulu is in the plot. Her whole backstory is so easy to miss, and frankly she's the only really interesting party member next to Auron. I also love her doll weapons and the fact they have references to FFIII and VIII as well. Getting her Celestial Weapon powered up is a total bitch though...

    __cait_sith_lulu_moogle_moomba_pupu_and_others_final_fantasy_and_final_fantasy_x_drawn_by_kimagu.jpg
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  12. #42

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    Just a update. This is still going on, just taking a break due to high amounts of stress at the moment. Will try and get back into writing all this up after E3.




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