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Thread: Materia

  1. #1
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

    Chocobo Materia

    So how do you think materia is going to work out in this game? We know its in there and the command system gives us a pseudo-turn base mechanic to make it work, but do you think Summon materia is going to work differently? How about Command materia? How will support materia work, and will there even be a need for some of the independent materia?
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  2. #2
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    I'm relatively certain we'll have green materia and possibly yellow materia working as normal, their actions taking up one ATB bar each, with red materia summons taking up two ATB bars (or more if the gauge extends). I can see some pink materia sticking around although some like Cover, Counter Attack or Long Range just don't feel like they fit the new combat style. Somehow I fear blue materia will be scratched entirely, which would be a massive shame because upon reflection I think giving the early All materia was perhaps the single most brilliant move on the game's part, easily and naturally conveying how combining materia works out and how powerful it is while also feeling super satisfying to put together. And it's such a simple thing.

    It's possible command materia will be scratched in favor of characters naturally learning unique skills like the ones we saw in the trailer, which would be a change I'd be honestly in favor of.

  3. #3

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    CAREFUL NOW

    Whatever you do don't even hint that certain materia might not work in the new system, /r/VIIRemake will find a way to come and downvote you! Although speaking of, the thread where that happened to me was on an article quoting Nomura that the materia system would be "Essentially the same system as the original. A lot of materia from the original is still there, some has been removed and some new ones have been added".

    So there's your answer I guess

  4. #4
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    I imagine Cover, Counterattack, and Long Range will also be removed. Likewise, Manipulate and Enemy Skill will also be removed as I just feel like both would be too cumbersome to use. Mime may also get the axe, but then again, we have a full party now, so maybe not. I can still see Blue Support Materia being here but we'll likely lose a few here as well, most likely Sneak Attack, Added Cut, and possibly the Magic Counter.

    I imagine Throw and Coin Toss will be split into two separate materia, and I can see Jump and Darkness from Crisis Core making their way in. Of anything, I'm actually curious to see if Materia Fusion from CC will make it into the remake because it might have been one of the few really great gameplay ideas from CC. Would give a lot of life to status magic if you can merge it with offensive magic materia.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    I imagine Cover, Counterattack, and Long Range will also be removed. Likewise, Manipulate and Enemy Skill will also be removed as I just feel like both would be too cumbersome to use. Mime may also get the axe, but then again, we have a full party now, so maybe not. I can still see Blue Support Materia being here but we'll likely lose a few here as well, most likely Sneak Attack, Added Cut, and possibly the Magic Counter.

    I imagine Throw and Coin Toss will be split into two separate materia, and I can see Jump and Darkness from Crisis Core making their way in. Of anything, I'm actually curious to see if Materia Fusion from CC will make it into the remake because it might have been one of the few really great gameplay ideas from CC. Would give a lot of life to status magic if you can merge it with offensive magic materia.
    It might be weird to have a jump materia considering that's basically Cid's limit breaks, unless they change his limit breaks or just remove the jump related ones. I can potentially see Added Cut working, but it will probably be removed. Manipulate would be hard. They could just make it so you switch to whatever you manipulate like switching a party member, but they'll probably just avoid it. I'm not sure enemy skill would be hard to implement at all. It would be very similar to any magic materia, except you learn some skills you're hit by when you have it equipped. Will they bother? No clue, but I don't see it being terribly challenging if they want it. I imagine they'll do away with the necessity of using Manipulate + Enemy Skill to learn some skills though. That's just a bit too involved for a real time system. The skills would also probably be changed and there might be fewer. All would be interesting if they include it....depending on how many enemies are visible on the map at a given time, they would likely have to restrict it. For example, presumably only some enemies on the map are in active combat so it could be used to target all of them. It's likely they'll get rid of it, but it could be implemented, I think. Mime is also a tough one. It might be hard to use properly even if they did include it, unless it was restricted it to miming ATB actions. That could work.

  6. #6
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    The issue with switching to the enemy with Manipulate is that they would now have to map controls to all of the enemies which might be too labor intensive. I think an easier solution would be to treat Manipulate like a Charm move, and the enemy simply starts attacking the other enemies instead.

    The issue with Cover and Counter is that both moves would require the game to take over combat, which doesn't usually gel very well with an action combat system. An easier solution for both is that Cover is changed to Decoy, and the materia simply makes enemies target that user instead. Likewise, Counterattack could work if it was changed to be an input move for a successful block from an enemy, giving the player more agency and letting the materia add to the combat system instead of pulling you out of it.

    Likewise, Long Range can be turned into a new ATB command when equipped that gives the player the Telekinesis ability from XII as well.

    Enemy Skill is just the one I feel may be an issue. Even with the turn-based "pause" mechanic, I feel like SE wouldn't want the Menu screen to get too cluttered so I can see certain changes happening like higher tier spells replacing low tier ones for basic green materia magic, assuming they don't give each spell unique animations and function. If Enemy Skill is added into the game, I imagine several skills will likely be removed for space and that the method of gaining the skills would be changed. The easy solution would be to just borrow from FFX and have the default skill for the materia to be Lancet and then your character has a certain chance of acquiring an enemy skill when used.

    The three materias I see having major issues simply due to what we know about the new system is the Counter Command, Magic Counter, and Sneak Attack materias because of the new process of magic costing ATB and MP to use, and that may not work if ATB resets between battles. We'll have to see.

    Jump might still work if it was basically treated as a jumping attack instead of dragoon jump, so Cid can maintain his usual abilities. Like counter, I can see Jump working like an added move you can press a button to activate and then follow up with a regular attack, but again, I can also see none of the CC exclusive materia appearing at all.
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  7. #7

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    Long Range could be made to make the character emit projectiles from a short range weapon. Possibly similar to Cloud's long range attack in Smash Bros. I guess that's probably blade beam limit break actually though, so maybe not.
    Last edited by Lord Golbez; 06-24-2019 at 02:21 AM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Golbez View Post
    Long Range could be made to make the character emit projectiles from a short range weapon. Possibly similar to Cloud's long range attack in Smash Bros. I guess that's probably blade beam limit break actually though, so maybe not.
    I feel long range could just slightly increase how far your weapons can hit in that circle by a fraction each level. My buddy sent me this.
    Last edited by Masamunemaster; 06-25-2019 at 08:28 AM. Reason: Relearning

  9. #9
    Newbie Administrator Loony BoB's Avatar
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    Loony Bob (Sargatanas)

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    Yeah, I don't think there's any question they'll have materia. My understanding is that they are opting to make it so that people will be a bit closer to FFX-style of "some characters are more suited to some things than others", so less red-mage-everyone-but-Aeris and more defined roles. I figure that means you'll have to think a bit more carefully about who gets what. No idea who makes the black mage in that scenario, though... Red XIII is probably my best bet at it.

    I don't mind how it rolls out at this moment, I'm keeping an open mind.
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  10. #10

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    Well let's see the general class types that correspond to the characters...

    Cloud - Knight/Fighter, I guess
    Tifa - Monk/Black Belt
    Aeris - White Mage
    Yuffie - Thief/Ninja
    Cid - Dragoon

    Cait Sith - ?
    Barret - ?
    Vincent - ? Something like Berserker?
    Red XIII - ?

    I guess any of those bottom ones could be, but I don't see Barret fitting it well. Cait Sith seems magey, but something weirder than black mage. Vincent kind of works. Red XIII is probably the best choice there. Aeris also works fine as an all round mage.

  11. #11
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    • Former Cid's Knight

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    If you look at screenshots for Aerith's command menu in battle, she has an ability called Gaia's Wrath, hinting at Geomancer. This may indicate that VIIR may implement the original job titles from early builds of the game in some capacity so...

    Cloud: Mystic Knight
    Barret - Gunner
    Aerith - Geomancer
    Tifa - Monk
    Red XIII - Beast
    Cait Sith - Toyasaurus (Beastmanster)
    Yuffie - Thief/Ninja
    Vincent - Horror-Terror (Horror Researcher)
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