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Thread: Is the MCU becoming woke? Is that bad?

  1. #16
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Dredd was a pretty rocking flick and I honestly really enjoyed Blade Runner 2049. Did it need to be made? No, but it was still a pretty respectable sequel even if Armitage III beat them to that particular plotline by almost three decades. Still, it mixed it up enough to still feel original.

    As for the Ghostbuster reboot, I'd point out that the film was actually being decried by some fans due to the choice of an all female cast before the first trailer even landed. So I'd probably say that film was kind of getting the shaft from the sexist part of the interweb. It did poorly because it was a mediocre flick that relied way too much on running gags for its own good. It wasn't a train wreck, but it wasn't exactly making people clamor for another remake either. I feel that many of the haters simply used that fact to vindicate their initial knee jerk reaction to the projects creation instead of recognizing that they did have a bit of a misogynistic bent towards it. You could have switched those roles with an all guy cast and it still wouldn't have saved the flick, but I believe the hype for the film would have been stronger had it been an all male cast.
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  2. #17
    Blood In The Water sharkythesharkdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    As for the Ghostbuster reboot, I'd point out that the film was actually being decried by some fans due to the choice of an all female cast before the first trailer even landed. So I'd probably say that film was kind of getting the shaft from the sexist part of the interweb. It did poorly because it was a mediocre flick that relied way too much on running gags for its own good. It wasn't a train wreck, but it wasn't exactly making people clamor for another remake either. I feel that many of the haters simply used that fact to vindicate their initial knee jerk reaction to the projects creation instead of recognizing that they did have a bit of a misogynistic bent towards it. You could have switched those roles with an all guy cast and it still wouldn't have saved the flick, but I believe the hype for the film would have been stronger had it been an all male cast.
    I mostly agree, and think it falls into the situation where "a woman has to make twice the impression to get half the respect."

    In my view from watching the trailers, the movie looked like it was going to be another mediocre remake/reboot of a series that didn't need it. I've seen a lot of trailers for a lot of reboots that gave me the same "lazy cash grab" feeling. The writing/comedy looked weak and cheap, it didn't look like they were trying to do much to keep the dark, sarcastic humor and sci-fi scare aspects of the originals, and the chemistry between the cast didn't seem to be working well. They didn't necessarily need to keep that ascetic in the reboot, but if they didn't then they needed to find an equally compelling angle to get laughs and be clever.

    I've honestly never seen the movie, so I may find it hilarious, but it's the trailer's job to make me want to see it, and those trailers didn't do that. I think the women they chose are all funny and talented, and they were either doing the best they could with weak writing, or couldn't find their chemistry together. I have a feeling the director didn't know how to utilize them properly, combined with bad writing. Those women have been doing comedy for years. The potential was there.

    I don't think an all male cast would have been any better, judging from the trailers. Since the ladies didn't make the movie fantastically, outrageously funny, it flopped and the anti-fem crowd was happy to blame it all on the cast and the idea of casting women in the first place.

    It's a shame.

  3. #18
    The Misanthropist charliepanayi's Avatar
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    Ghostbusters failed because it cost $150 million (an insane amount of money for what is a comedy), because it had no major stars (at least not major outside the US) and because nobody outside the US cares about Ghostbusters, the quality of the film was immaterial. Quality is always immaterial, the new Lion King remake is artistically totally pointless and has made a billion dollars in about ten days.
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  4. #19
    Wildökarudo Mercen-X's Avatar
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    A hefty film budget doesn't necessitate a cinematic failure. There are so many different directions you can go with the concept of ghost hunters. Paul Feig essentially made Ghostbusters but with a less interesting setup and four people who really felt like they didn't want to be in the same room together. Look at the Spy Who Dumped Me. I bought the friendship between Kate McKinnon and Mila Kunis and their attitude and even the premise of them becoming spies after the finale (obviously a joke ending as there's so much more to joining an intelligence organization than simply "applying"; probably couldn't even expect fieldwork for a few years).

    Disney can mostly get away with their cash-grabby remakes because they have years of nostalgic faith to bet on with their following. Ghostbusters didn't have that. Two films which are cult classics are the same as Star Wars or Marvel. Here fans have waited years for some kind of follow-up and Paul Feig chose to piss on the fanbase.

    As for star power, the film had Chris Hemsworth hot off Avengers Age of Ultron. Melissa McCarthy has had decent success even in action-comedies and the film had cameos from the original stars (except Harold Ramis who was dead). The problem here lies in the cashgrab nature of the film and that very message which was unwisely packaged in its marketing.

    Basically, the trailers said "hey, remember Ghostbusters? Give us your money." Whereas the audience replied "how is it connected? How will the remake appeal to me?" Again, the trailers said "give us your money for a film whose jokes don't land, whose characters are not at all interested in the job, whose villain is 1-note and makes no damned sense, for cameos from actors who played characters you loved in the last film but are completely unrelated in this one... did we mention we want your money? Also women, 'cause feminism is a thing, right?" That last point, they tried to sell hard. Here's the thing about trying to market anything to "rights group" or "equalists": they will approve, but they just don't consume it. In other words money is being wasted on a group of people that otherwise doesn't give a $#!+.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    It did poorly because it was a mediocre flick that relied way too much on running gags for its own good. You could have switched those roles with an all guy cast and it still wouldn't have saved the flick, but I believe the hype for the film would have been stronger had it been an all male cast.
    Exactly. It didn't matter that this was a gender-swapped team. It was a bad movie. Most Warriors can't do the math that good movies are good movies and are praised as such no matter who's starring in it. You can't make a poorly constructed film and then blame the fans for not liking it. That's like the directors responsible for Mario Brothers claiming fans who disliked the movie are racists because John Leguizamo is of Columbian descent.

    Personally, I just wished for some sort of closure for my favorite characters.

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  5. #20
    Slothstronaut Slothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercen-X View Post
    Exactly. It didn't matter that this was a gender-swapped team. It was a bad movie.
    Except some people like it, or at least like parts of it and aren't bothered enough by the rest to hate it. Plus it's hilarious that anyone thinks whether a movie is good or bad actually matters as far as how it will perform. That's never mattered to audiences before and it didn't suddenly start because a ghostbusters reboot got announced.

  6. #21
    *permanent smite* Spuuky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercen-X View Post
    Most Warriors
    lol

  7. #22
    A consummate professional Strider's Avatar
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    Marvel comics have been a bastion of social justice allegories for decades. That the movies would eventually do the same thing, and in doing so reflect the diversity of its consumer base, was only a matter of time.

  8. #23
    Wildökarudo Mercen-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slothy View Post
    it's hilarious that anyone thinks whether a movie is good or bad actually matters as far as how it will perform. That's never mattered to audiences before and it didn't suddenly start because a ghostbusters reboot got announced.
    It's like you're trying to tell me something but your words are coming out scrambled.

    Also, that anyone would call Marvel a bastion for social justice when there plenty of SJWs who would call Stan Lee himself bigoted, sexist, and racist is laughable. And while social justice "themes" may have been at play in the comics, they were never shoveled onto us as they are now. In a sidenote, Lee once wrote "bigotry and racism are among the deadliest ills plaguing the world today... the bigot is one who hates blindly, fanatically, indiscriminately." Hm. I think he's talking about NPCs.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...2&&FORM=VDRVRV

    Deadpool:
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    My pal, Dexter, and I have had a longstanding on-and-off romance. I've proposed to her multiple times but she always says she's still young and wants to explore her sexuality while men are still interested. Well, men and women. She strokes both ways. That's a double entendre.

  9. #24
    Slothstronaut Slothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercen-X View Post
    It's like you're trying to tell me something but your words are coming out scrambled.
    Actually what I said was remarkably simple and straight forward.

    Also, that anyone would call Marvel a bastion for social justice when there plenty of SJWs who would call Stan Lee himself bigoted, sexist, and racist is laughable. And while social justice "themes" may have been at play in the comics, they were never shoveled onto us as they are now. In a sidenote, Lee once wrote "bigotry and racism are among the deadliest ills plaguing the world today... the bigot is one who hates blindly, fanatically, indiscriminately." Hm. I think he's talking about NPCs.
    Wow you'll just make up anything to justify your nonsense position. Sad.

  10. #25
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Yeah I don't think I've ever heard anyone call Stan Lee a bigot. He's usually accused of stealing all of the credit for the characters he created by those who worked for him. I've been a Marvel reader for years, and I don't know anyone who would really claim he was a bigot.

    That's more of Walt Diseny's shtick and even he has many defenders who worked for him that state he really wasn't, or at least no more racist than was socially acceptable for his time frame.
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  11. #26
    The Misanthropist charliepanayi's Avatar
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    Every Chris Hemsworth film outside the MCU has not done that well, so saying he was in Ghostbusters means nothing. Melissa McCarthy isn't very known outside the US and a hefty film budget means you have to clear at least $400 million to make money usually which means you're setting the bar much higher. If Ghostbusters had been a mid-budget comedy (like Feig's other films) it might have made some money.

    And you know The Spy Who Dumped Me flopped right?
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  12. #27
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    Where are you finding these mythical SJW? Stop watching video essays of people making mountains out of molehills. These things arent actually things.

  13. #28
    Jessweeee♪'s Avatar
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    idk its not "pushing an agenda" to have a realistic amount of women and poc

  14. #29
    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    I don't think so. I haven't gotten to see Captain Marvel yet, but I heard from my brother it was good. Though Mom told me the beginning was hard to understand.

    I'm more excited for what they're going to do with X-Men and Fantastic Four now that they have the movie rights to them.


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