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Thread: The Demo is Officially Out

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Example View Post
    I was a bit confused by the lack of materia, the laser security system was a waste of time, and I'm not a fan of how they made Barret too over-the-top and dramatic, even when compared to the original, but otherwise it was everything I expected it to be.
    the materia can be seen glowing in cloud's sword (which i think is a really nice thing), but they left out any materia management. im assuming it will be in the full game, though.

  2. #17

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    It 100% will. You didn't have materia during the bombing run in the OG, either.
    Last edited by Fox; 03-04-2020 at 10:52 PM.

  3. #18
    Recognized Member Scotty_ffgamer's Avatar
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    Someone mentioned online somewhere that itís easy to miss, but the hint of Shinra causing a more massive explosion is referenced in the original (I think when they get back to 7th heaven). I might go back and play the beginning of VII just to see, but itís just as likely that they werenít expecting the explosion to be so big and to cause casualties because they werenít thinking about the wider picture.

    I can agree that the boss fight went on too long. They could have had a quicker fight with all the spectacle still attached. What was the compilation reference though, Wolf Kanno? Iím thinking I missed that when my dog was going crazy and distracting me at some point.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Gashtacular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    • I really liked the change (SPOILER)concerning the bomb, that was actually a pretty sly story change.
    I actually really, really disliked this.

    (SPOILER) In the original, Avalanche are responsible for all those deaths because of their direct action. Shinra respond with something far more catastrophic (plate drop), and for far more evil reasons.

    Avalanche's guilt was barely addressed in the first game, mostly because the magnitude of Shinra's evil overshadowed Avalanche actions. Also because it was a controversial topic then (and now).

    I enjoy Avalanche as eco-terrorists and the whole morality issues it brings up. Shifting that blame to the Big Evil we already know is a Big Evil is a pretty weak move (especially because within an hour or so of gameplay they *REALLY* commit a horrendous crime), and seems to be to allow the story writers to avoid something controversial (and compelling)
    Yeah, regarding this plot point:
    a) I don't think it is a change from the original
    b) Even if it is, I don't think it matters.

    (SPOILER)In the original game Jessie tells you how the explosion was much bigger than she expected. "Hey look at the news... what a blast. Think it was all because of my bomb? But all I really did was make it just like the computer told me... Oh no, I must have made a miscalculation somewhere". Whether it was Shinra's doing in the original or accidental, it seems to have been a larger boom than anticipated, just like in the remake.

    But assume for a second that this is a deliberate change: so what? They were still planning on disabling a power plant. Shutting down transport, hospitals, lights, heating. They were putting lives at risk, big boom or no. Even if they had only got the little boom they'd planned, they're still eco-terrorists who went and murdered a bunch of Shinra employees and crippled the local infrastructure. Furthermore, even with Shinra's helping hand, they're going to *think* they're responsible for what happened, and I think from a story perspective that's the interesting theme to explore. As far as they're concerned they just inadvertently Chernobyled Sector 8, and now in the coming chapters we're hopefully going to explore how they live with that burden. Remember what Tifa said in the E3 trailer: "I know we have to think big if we want to make a difference... but not like this."

  5. #20
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty_ffgamer View Post
    I can agree that the boss fight went on too long. They could have had a quicker fight with all the spectacle still attached. What was the compilation reference though, Wolf Kanno? Iím thinking I missed that when my dog was going crazy and distracting me at some point.
    Heidegger mentions that someone tried to assassinate President Shinra before, and he wasn't sure if this terrorist group was connected to the one that tried. This was a plot point in Before Crisis, because the original "pre-Barret" version of Avalanche tried to assassinate him in the beginning of that game.

  6. #21
    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    Well, I loved it. Equal parts comforting familiarity and intriguing surprises, which is what I was hoping for. I'll need a little longer to get fully au fait with the combat, but it's off to a solid start at any rate. The Scorpion and Sweeper fights were both pretty lengthy -and the Shock Troopers, to a lesser extent - but that's understandable given the lack of random battles. It's not like you can just keep running around on the spot to keep fighting forever now.

    I was thrown by the revelation of (SPOILER)Shinra self-destructing the crippled reactor, and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes, and why they resorted to seemingly such drastic action so early in the piece. In the original, Jessie's caught off guard by the size of the blast: it was much more than she expected, but she had built the bomb using a plan she obtained electronically, so it wasn't a completely predictable device.

    Finally, just got to say that I loved the banter between the characters as they went about their mission. The writing's consistent and characterful, and it's going to be great to see them evolve over the course of this game, and its (hopefully inevitable) future episodes.

  7. #22
    Recognized Member Scotty_ffgamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post

    Heidegger mentions that someone tried to assassinate President Shinra before, and he wasn't sure if this terrorist group was connected to the one that tried. This was a plot point in Before Crisis, because the original "pre-Barret" version of Avalanche tried to assassinate him in the beginning of that game.
    Ah, I never even knew any of the details from Before Crisis since I could never play it. I might not have caught even if I was paying attention at that moment!

  8. #23
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    (SPOILER)I thought the reference you were mentioning was the black feather Cloud saw during his headache. It's been a really long time since I've played CC and I didn't even notice the assassination attempt reference.

    The combat system will once again make me not want to play a new FF game
    Last edited by theundeadhero; 03-05-2020 at 08:36 AM.
    ...

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Gashtacular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    • I really liked the change (SPOILER)concerning the bomb, that was actually a pretty sly story change.
    I actually really, really disliked this.

    (SPOILER) In the original, Avalanche are responsible for all those deaths because of their direct action. Shinra respond with something far more catastrophic (plate drop), and for far more evil reasons.

    Avalanche's guilt was barely addressed in the first game, mostly because the magnitude of Shinra's evil overshadowed Avalanche actions. Also because it was a controversial topic then (and now).

    I enjoy Avalanche as eco-terrorists and the whole morality issues it brings up. Shifting that blame to the Big Evil we already know is a Big Evil is a pretty weak move (especially because within an hour or so of gameplay they *REALLY* commit a horrendous crime), and seems to be to allow the story writers to avoid something controversial (and compelling)
    Yeah, regarding this plot point:
    a) I don't think it is a change from the original
    b) Even if it is, I don't think it matters.

    (SPOILER)In the original game Jessie tells you how the explosion was much bigger than she expected. "Hey look at the news... what a blast. Think it was all because of my bomb? But all I really did was make it just like the computer told me... Oh no, I must have made a miscalculation somewhere". Whether it was Shinra's doing in the original or accidental, it seems to have been a larger boom than anticipated, just like in the remake.

    But assume for a second that this is a deliberate change: so what? They were still planning on disabling a power plant. Shutting down transport, hospitals, lights, heating. They were putting lives at risk, big boom or no. Even if they had only got the little boom they'd planned, they're still eco-terrorists who went and murdered a bunch of Shinra employees and crippled the local infrastructure. Furthermore, even with Shinra's helping hand, they're going to *think* they're responsible for what happened, and I think from a story perspective that's the interesting theme to explore. As far as they're concerned they just inadvertently Chernobyled Sector 8, and now in the coming chapters we're hopefully going to explore how they live with that burden. Remember what Tifa said in the E3 trailer: "I know we have to think big if we want to make a difference... but not like this."
    Yea, that's my point. I want them to explore this guilt more thoroughly than the original and (SPOILER)im afraid the burden of true guilt to shinra here will be an excuse not to explore that but we'll see when the full game comes out. I was not aware of Tifa's line in the E3 trailer, so that might change everything about my expectations, thanks

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero View Post
    The combat system will once again make me not want to play a new FF game
    I absolutely love the combat in the Remake Demo. The only gripe I have is that locking on to enemies can get a bit hectic if there are multiple enemies on screen, but you can always enter tactical mode even with no ATB charges to slow down time and assess the situation so that negates that slightly.

    The Stagger system from FFXIII works *so* well for the Remake, and they've improved on it greatly. In FFXIII you could just auto-battle RAV-RAV-COM to easily Stagger an enemy, but now you physically have to build ATB in order to use abilities that will help build that pressure.

    Don't underestimate Barret in the demo, either. If you make him the party leader (change it in battle settings in the menu) before the fight with the Sweepers you will have a big advantage. You can get straight in there with an overcharge which helps to start building pressure and boosts your ATB. You'd be tempted to use lighting magic, but hold off on that for now to conserve MP. Instead opt for Barrets focused shot ability which again boosts pressure. Switch to Cloud and pummel it with strong attacks to fill ATB and then use focused thrust. The Sweeper will be staggered in no time and then you're free to hit it with Lightning magic & Clouds Braver. There is a lot of depth here already without a full party of three and that's not even taking in to account the various weapons, materia, summons and unique character abilities that will all come together in the final game.
    Last edited by fat_moogle; 03-05-2020 at 12:43 PM.
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  11. #26
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Played it again and actually tried to use the battle system with "skill" and the results were mostly the same, except I used less potions between fights. I do appreciate that rolling to evade isn't as bulltrout as it usually is in games like KH or CC, where it practically makes you invincible if you get the timing right. Still, I didn't feel like playing with skill versus just trading blows did anything to offset the core issues I've noticed of your party being way too tanky to worry about anything. I also can't seem to get Barret to ever get his Limit Break to activate cause he just never takes much damage. The partner A.I. is a bit passive, and I can't seem to figure out how to just tell them to attack a certain enemy that doesn't require using magic or an ability.

    Also, why do the Guard Hounds have to be staggered? I mean I get it with the Sweeper and Guard Scorpion, but it was weird that the Guard Dog can take enough of a beating to get staggered first. Again, I feel this mechanic just slows down combat and adds artificial difficulty in order to stretch out fights as opposed to making enemies a bigger threat.

    I did spend a bit more time just looking around at things and spotted a few interesting tidbits.


    • I spotted another Compilation reference. There is a poster in the entrance way area, pass the opening train stop, that references Banora with an advertisement for a Banora apples flavored drink. Banora being the hometown of Angeal and Genesis in Crisis Core.
    • For those wondering why Barret calls Cloud "Stamp", it is apparently because Stamp the Dog is a fictional, possibly military, cartoon figure that is popular in the world. How do I know this? Because there is a torn poster detailing the new book about the pup on one of the walls just before you get the tutorial for Shinra boxes.
    • Cloud being relegated to the Fire Materia, instead of having his Blizzard and Thunder Materia like the original is a double reference. In the original Dissidia, Fire magic was the only magic he could use in his move set; but this itself is a reference to Crisis Core, because one of the formulas for making a Fire Materia in Materia Fusion was combing a Thunder and Blizzard materia together. The more you know.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    • For those wondering why Barret calls Cloud "Stamp", it is apparently because Stamp the Dog is a fictional, possibly military, cartoon figure that is popular in the world. How do I know this? Because there is a torn poster detailing the new book about the pup on one of the walls just before you get the tutorial for Shinra boxes.
    Lol thanks for this, I did wonder.

  13. #28
    Trial by Wombat Bubba's Avatar
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    Barret was over-the-top.

    "Are you tellin' me you've never heard the planet cryin' out in PAIN?!!!!"

    ...and I still don't like his sunglasses.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    Barret was over-the-top.
    Yup, sounds like Barret!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
    Also, why do the Guard Hounds have to be staggered? I mean I get it with the Sweeper and Guard Scorpion, but it was weird that the Guard Dog can take enough of a beating to get staggered first
    I suspect it is in order to serve as an introduction to the mechanic. It's good design. Introduce a new system with low threat enemies first, so players understand how to use it when the stakes are higher.

    The first enemy type you encounter can be quickly beaten by just mashing attack. The second enemy type requires utilising the Pressured/Staggered system. The third enemy type requires character switching to handle range, the fourth requires using magic, and then the Guard Scorpion puts all of it together and introduces more mechanics including exploiting weaknesses with elemental magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
    core issues I've noticed of your party being way too tanky to worry about anything
    First, I dunno about you but I definitely had to use a fair number of potions and cure spells. But also... you're in the tutorial. You don't expect enemies to be taking off half your HP with each hit, do you?
    Last edited by Fox; 03-06-2020 at 01:07 PM.

  15. #30
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
    Also, why do the Guard Hounds have to be staggered? I mean I get it with the Sweeper and Guard Scorpion, but it was weird that the Guard Dog can take enough of a beating to get staggered first
    I suspect it is in order to serve as an introduction to the mechanic. It's good design. Introduce a new system with low threat enemies first, so players understand how to use it when the stakes are higher.

    The first enemy type you encounter can be quickly beaten by just mashing attack. The second enemy type requires utilising the Pressured/Staggered system. The third enemy type requires character switching to handle range, the fourth requires using magic, and then the Guard Scorpion puts all of it together and introduces more mechanics including exploiting weaknesses with elemental magic.
    I feel like the Sweeper is a much better candidate for the mechanic, and it actually makes more sense that a giant mecha machine would need to be staggered to do real damage. I imagine most people don't even notice the guard dogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
    core issues I've noticed of your party being way too tanky to worry about anything
    First, I dunno about you but I definitely had to use a fair number of potions and cure spells. But also... you're in the tutorial. You don't expect enemies to be taking off half your HP with each hit, do you?
    If you're going to do an action battle system, then yes, I expect some challenge, even in the tutorial. What's the point of adding all these skill based mechanics if you're just going to let me RPG my way out of the problem with levels and excessive healing? I'm a Dark Souls/DMC fan, if you're going to make the game be an action title, bring the challenge or don't bother. Its the underlying issue I have with most Action-RPGs is that battle systems are too easy and are basically cosmetic without it.

    It basically comes back to my issue with the Guard Scorpion, the fight is long, but its never challenging because you have so many items and healing options you can play just as reckless and unintuitively as you want. Compare that to the Asylum Demon in DS1 who can be easily cheesed if you know what to do, but will likely hand you your ass if try to just run in whaling on him without any concern for your safety. Challenge is intuitive design, the Guard Scorpion would have been a more effective tutorial boss if he actually made all the mechanics you learned up from that point the key to success. I didn't even bother switching to Barret the second playthrough outside of the tutorial part since Cloud has Fire magic to deal with long range opponents. Didn't really change my experience.

    I'm not saying the game needs to be brutally hard, but I feel the stagger and party switching mechanics should have been more important so the mechanics would have more weight. I never died either time I played, and the only difference between not playing like a dumbass versus just going all Leroy Jenkins on everything is losing about 7 more potions of my very generous stock of healing items. If the tutorial is going to be this brain dead about the mechanics, it doesn't instill much confidence that the rest of the game is going to be different. As it stands staggering, party switching, and planning out what spells and abilities to use amount to nothing but fluff to add artificial flavor to the battle mechanics.

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