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Thread: I'm worried (Spoilers)

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    I'm just waiting for the part where Sephiroth learns how to jump between timelines and collects alternate versions of himself for the real final battle of the Remake where the player will have to deal with AC Sephiroth, OG Sephiroth (still in his blocky polygon form), Dissidia Sephiroth, KH Sephiroth, Ehrgiez Sephiroth, and WoFF Chibi Sephiroth.
    ...As much as the purist in me threw up a little when I read that, I won't deny another part of me would freakin' LOVE it

    Also every version of One Winged Angel ever written would have to play simultaneous in a hideous cacophony of Latin chanting

  2. #32
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Most of what you saw in the ending is not taking place on the same timeline we're following. The scene before we see Biggs open his eyes, we see the Sector 7 plate very much in tact. So while we may get to experience some 'what if these characters survived' visions/gameplay as part of the story going forward, I firmly believe that the Biggs and Jessie we said goodbye to in the pillar are still very much lost underneath the plate.
    Whether or not that's true, it still cheapens the experience for the audience. Hey guys, remember how much it hurt that they died horribly on the pillar? They're still alive in an alternative what-if world, tee-hee! Gotcha!

    There is no way "our" timeline doesn't interact with any of these "what-if" timelines though. I would genuinely be surprised if there isn't an everybody lives happy ending. They have form for this with FFX-2 and the FFXIII trilogy.

  3. #33

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    I fully expect that most of the game will unfold as it did in the original. However, much as the Midgar section itself, the rest of the game's events will be "off" a bit. I have no doubt we'll see the Zolom, fight for Fort Condor, march in the Shinra parade, stow aboard the cargo ship, take a rest at the beach, walk the tracks of the coal mines, play around at Gold Saucer, fight Dyne, meet Bugenhagen, get major creep vibes from Vincent the vampire, etc.

    And Wolf Kanno, that's called Multiverse Reunion
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

  4. #34
    WarZidane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aulayna View Post
    After some though, I'm fairly on board with seeing how this plays out going forward. This game did a good job at hitting all the nostalgia points and fleshing out the characters. Even if the ending really did come out of left-field, I'm willing to see where it leads.

    In retrospect my main issue with the final segment is that the level of powercreep to Advent Children levels just seems stupid. I get that it's for the bombastic cinematic experience, but Cloud effortlessly slicing trains and buildings in half with his sword is quite a jump in power from the rest of the game... like the Midgar Zolom better be ready to sliced into pepperoni at this rate.

    This gif pretty much captures it:

    Keep in mind that happens in a weird metaphysical-esque singularity. It could very well be that the characters' physical limitations do not exist in that place while they do in the normal world.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarZidane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aulayna View Post
    After some though, I'm fairly on board with seeing how this plays out going forward. This game did a good job at hitting all the nostalgia points and fleshing out the characters. Even if the ending really did come out of left-field, I'm willing to see where it leads.

    In retrospect my main issue with the final segment is that the level of powercreep to Advent Children levels just seems stupid. I get that it's for the bombastic cinematic experience, but Cloud effortlessly slicing trains and buildings in half with his sword is quite a jump in power from the rest of the game... like the Midgar Zolom better be ready to sliced into pepperoni at this rate.

    This gif pretty much captures it:

    Keep in mind that happens in a weird metaphysical-esque singularity. It could very well be that the characters' physical limitations do not exist in that place while they do in the normal world.
    Cloud does some crazy bulltrout during the first bike race, also.

    This has always been a bugbear for me since Advent Children. The original FF7 makes the characters seem mere mortals in comparison. One of the best scenes in the original game is when cloud reverses on sephiroth and lifts sephiroth with the sword he is currently impaled with and it is a fantastic, impressive moment. Then advent children came along and everyone was doing goofy physics-defying flippy troute all over the shop. Cheesy, and negates any in-game action.

  6. #36

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    Otherwise, I enjoyed the ending. We're in pretty much the same place as we would be in OG, there's just another story element. The group are still leaving midgar, and are still hunting sephiroth.

    I think the remake would have sucked ending with motorball, and welcome all the sephiroth stuff. I'm a bit surprised by some of the responses here.

  7. #37
    Nice about it Nice's Avatar
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    This is a all a question of stakes. As was mentioned, the pillar scene and deaths of many of the Avalanche members raises the stakes for Barrett and the others. Their deaths, as well as the thousands of others in Sector 7, gives the story and the player incentive to want to bring Shinra down because we can related to it or understand it. It's murder. Stealing "the lifeblood" out to the planet is more of an abstract idea. But murder is not. That's why allowing them to live removes some of the stakes and cheapens the story.

  8. #38

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    But if in our timeline those characters are still dead, that motivation is still there for our characters. Sure I can see from the players point of view that if we know they survive in some other reality they're not 'really' dead, but personally that doesn't really cheapen the effect because I consider them different characters. For me I'm like "OK, good for Biggs B and Zack B but the characters I know are Biggs A and Zack A, and they're still gone.

  9. #39

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    I doubt anyone here actually expected nothing more than a HD polishing up of a 23 year old game, Square has made it obvious since 2015 that it wasn't going to happen. But did they really need to force in a pretentious, masturbatory metanarrative about "whispers of fate" (a hamfisted allegory for ultra-purist fans) to justify taking the story in a new direction? People would still buy it no matter what they did, myself included, even though I'd prefer if they just stayed faithful to the original, but I'd still be curious to see how it goes. Not to mention it only further destroyed the pacing of a game that was already padded the smurf out with filler and side quests. And the way they handled Sephiroth was incredibly poor, they just kept shoving him in your face without bothering to explain who he is or his connection with Cloud and the gang.

    Quote Originally Posted by maybee View Post
    I mean, Square Enix did that with FFIII DS and FFIV twice with PSP and DS. So the company is capable at making a decent remake with some good changes mixed in. However FFVII Remake has Kitase and Nomura at the control station which might explain the creative road this remake is taking. Nomura is responsible for the crazy that is Kingdom Hearts and Kitase has done some "marmite" works too, like the FFXIII series, I believe.


    Marmite meaning that you either love it to death or despise it to death.
    Don't forget Nojima, the mastermind behind the Blitzball Bomb.

  10. #40

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    Speaking of Blitzball. The DAB features a shot of Johnny with a pair of sports orbs (can't tell maybe basketball). Makes me wonder if some sport will come into play in the sequel. Makes me wonder if Johnny will be a guest character in battle or maybe he and some other traditionally NPCs will become temporary party members. All bets are off as of the ending.

    Also, I just realized something I really want for Part 2: detailed info on the Shinra trio that helps Cloud infiltrate the parade.
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

  11. #41
    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    The destiny time ghosts stuff was a fairly explicit metaphor for people who wanted a straight remaster and telling them "Nope, you ain't getting that. In fact it'd be really annoying if we did that. Keeping the plot on its OG rails is actually not the best idea and we should try to make something better." It is a precise parallel to "We should try for a better outcome than the timeline we're familiar with" in the game.

    You're meant to hate the time ghosts and think they're complete bulltrout who need to smurf off.

  12. #42
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    It’s not my fault you didn’t play Chain of Memories before going into 2 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But that’s enough derailing this thread, I’d imagine
    Nope it's Square and Nomura's fault. They didn't want people playing their series in order. Though even ignoring the writing KH2 wasn't good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    There's no confirmation but that's exactly what the evidence we can see suggests is happening. That's why I bring it up when people say "They shouldn't have changed it so Biggs/Zack survived, it's important to the story they don't" because it seems very likely that they didn't bring them back to life.
    Keep in mind who are making these games. If you expect things like internally consistent alternate universes, time travel that is plot hole free, or any of a million other hallmarks of competent writing you will almost certainly be disappointed. Also, frankly, going the full blown battrout route where Zack is now alive and it actually matters in some way would be far more entertaining to me than just continuing on as though it's an unimportant point to the story being told, or playing in two different timelines. I mean from what everyone has already described for me there's basically no mention of Zack ever so having him not be important later on now that he's not dead would be itself bad story telling of the highest order. It's a promise without a payoff. If Square doesn't go all out balls to the wall crazy with this then they're going to disappoint me which is saying something since my hopes for their games are usually nonexistent.
    Last edited by Slothy; 04-19-2020 at 11:30 PM.

  13. #43
    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    I think given stuff like Roche and cross-dressing and not simply having a Hell House fight but making it a massive epic showdown, we can safely assume a good degree of balls to the wall craziness

  14. #44

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    Just beat it the other day. Your concerns echo my own precisely. I'm hoping against hope that it's just an elaborate ruse to simply enable the saving of Aerith from certain death but alas, my gut tells me they won't stop there and will convolute it beyond all reckoning à la Kingdom Hearts 3. Another possibility is that they outright omit much of the original that gave it its richness and place the party on a much more direct path to Sephiroth in order to wrap it all up in just two parts (After all they did just spend an entire full-length game merely covering the events of Midgar.) It's disappointing, especially considering just how exceptional an experience it has been when they more or less stuck to script of the original.

  15. #45

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    I don't know if I'm still on honeymoon, but I liked the idea of the Whispers trying to keep everything as it was… It was a cool take on the meaning of «remake» (not just as it was, but new and different). Now that they were defeated, I can't honestly see where this is going… «That which lies ahead… does not yet exist» — and that's fine with me: sure, I'm nervous, but I'm more anxious than ever to see the next chapters!

    It's clear that the actions taken on Remake had some kind of repercussion on the other reality, does the same happen the other way around? If Zack survived, what consequence will it have on Cloud's persona? Is this Sephiroth the same we defeated on the original, or another who somehow knew how events played out and is trying things differently? If so, why and how is he omniscient? What does «Seven seconds till the end» mean? Is it a glimpse of the future, will Cloud have to make a choice within those seven seconds? Will he have that time to stop everything from going to smithereens?

    I'm sorry, I think I wandered off a bit…

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