(SPOILERS) Which character would win your "Most Improved" award?

[Fynn]

Yeah, again, I don’t see how her attraction makes her incompatible with modern storytelling sensibilities. I guess it’d be different if all female characters in the game were extra horny for Cloud. Unless I’m missing something. Please tell me what it is, I’d rather be conscious of these things going forward.

[tony123]

Yeah, again, I don’t see how her attraction makes her incompatible with modern storytelling sensibilities. I guess it’d be different if all female characters in the game were extra horny for Cloud. Unless I’m missing something. Please tell me what it is, I’d rather be conscious of these things going forward.

There wasn't anything wrong with her being horny or her having a strong attraction to Cloud. However they didn't need to make her act like she wanted to drop everything and bone Cloud throughout her entire time in the game. They should have just shown her attraction to Cloud within a particular scene or two and then have her act normally and stay on task throughout the missions she went on.

Just think of it this way. Say for instance Riley went on the mission with Joel and Ellie as well in Last of Us. Do you think Ellie and Riley would have been talking about how much they wanted to bone each other while they were trying to escape Clickers and avoid people shooting at them?

[Karifean]

Speaking as someone who's at least seen the first reactor mission in full, even in heavily dangerous situations and almost dying *twice* as the place collapses around her, she never misses a beat to yell out stuff like "my hero", basically lines that no real person would ever say in a situation like that, to the point where the other members of AVALANCHE are openly annoyed with her and tell her to cut it out and focus. I'd say it's funny, but it is kinda a "Hollywood girl" cliché nonetheless to have everything else take second seat to swooning over the main guy. And while it is an adaptation of original scenes, she *is* also conveniently the only member of the group to "need help" from the main guy not once, but twice, the guys all make it out themselves no problem. Can see how that could sit wrong with 'modern sensibilities', or at least how people might be sick of these 'sexist' clichés.

I think it's in part the English localization specifically though. From what I could tell at least, the French dub had the characters speaking a lot more organically and human. While Jessie is still decently flirty, stuff like the corny "my hero" line is something they straight up just added in the English dub.

[tony123]

Speaking as someone who's at least seen the first reactor mission in full, even in heavily dangerous situations and almost dying *twice* as the place collapses around her, she never misses a beat to yell out stuff like "my hero", basically lines that no real person would ever say in a situation like that, to the point where the other members of AVALANCHE are openly annoyed with her and tell her to cut it out and focus. I'd say it's funny, but it is kinda a "Hollywood girl" cliché nonetheless to have everything else take second seat to swooning over the main guy. And while it is an adaptation of original scenes, she *is* also conveniently the only member of the group to "need help" from the main guy not once, but twice, the guys all make it out themselves no problem. Can see how that could sit wrong with 'modern sensibilities', or at least how people might be sick of these 'sexist' clichés.

I think it's in part the English localization specifically though. From what I could tell at least, the French dub had the characters speaking a lot more organically and human. While Jessie is still decently flirty, stuff like the corny "my hero" line is something they straight up just added in the English dub.

Yeah Jessie acting that way would have been completely fine if this game was made say in the '00-'10 time period. But not as a game made in 2020. I'm not one of those who has any social agendas at all either. I just want decent stories and having characters like that just isn't up to the standards of modern times. If you want to see girls act like that that is what those low budget spring break swimsuit movies are for.

And if it was mainly an English dub problem it makes me wonder if these people who are dubbing games for English speaking audiences are even paying attention to the types of games American and European companies are making these days. Heck this is a trailer we got in the past few months about an upcoming game from one of the more popular American based companies right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-BUJoqZRsw

It makes the characters in FF7R look pretty silly.

[Fynn]

I mean that just sounds like regular FFVII campiness. People would riot if they didn’t have that. The Honeybee Inn stuff got even vampire so I don’t see how one is a problem and one isn’t. That’s just the tone in the game and I don’t see how that makes it antiquated. Stuff doesn’t all have to be dark and serious

[WarZidane]

Tonal differences in games are a thing, you don't see Joel cross-dressing to get close to a bandit leader in Last of Us either.

Not like Naughty Dog has another massive franchise, Uncharted, in which both guys and girls flirt and crack jokes while taking on armies of armed pirates, private militaries and monsters, eh?

[tony123]

Tonal differences in games are a thing, you don't see Joel cross-dressing to get close to a bandit leader in Last of Us either.

Not like Naughty Dog has another massive franchise, Uncharted, in which both guys and girls flirt and crack jokes while taking on armies of armed pirates, private militaries and monsters, eh?

To a point that is true. But Uncharted is still a vastly more serious game than Final Fantasy is. THe problem with the remake is they basically made a 1997 style game in 2020. Doing something like that is going to receive a lot of criticism. Perhaps in the future remaking old games isn't the best thing to do. I have a feeling that Square realizes the Final Fantasy IP is starting to become a little dated and that is why they aren't as quick to make new Final Fantasy stories any longer.

[Fynn]

If anything, I feel the campiness of FFVII is sonething modern mainstream gaming is seriously lacking and I hope it’ll usher in a new era of zaniness. Cultural shifts happen and games being super serious all the time is already stale

[tony123]

If anything, I feel the campiness of FFVII is sonething modern mainstream gaming is seriously lacking and I hope it’ll usher in a new era of zaniness. Cultural shifts happen and games being super serious all the time is already stale

With narrative storytelling in games being taken more seriously than ever now and with movies and tv shows looking towards video games for ideas of what to make more than they ever have before I think they are a long ways away from a shift back to the era where games were simply meant to be games and the seriousness of the story didn't matter all that much. And a game where they have to use almost quarter century old characters isn't going to be the game to start the shift back to video game zaniness. If anything it is only going to remind people how much gaming has progressed since 1997.

[Mr Gashtacular]

Speaking as someone who's at least seen the first reactor mission in full, even in heavily dangerous situations and almost dying *twice* as the place collapses around her, she never misses a beat to yell out stuff like "my hero", basically lines that no real person would ever say in a situation like that, to the point where the other members of AVALANCHE are openly annoyed with her and tell her to cut it out and focus. I'd say it's funny, but it is kinda a "Hollywood girl" cliché .

yea its almost so on-the-nose as to be a send up of the cliche, or something!

[Fox]

If anything, I feel the campiness of FFVII is sonething modern mainstream gaming is seriously lacking and I hope it’ll usher in a new era of zaniness. Cultural shifts happen and games being super serious all the time is already stale

With narrative storytelling in games being taken more seriously than ever now and with movies and tv shows looking towards video games for ideas of what to make more than they ever have before I think they are a long ways away from a shift back to the era where games were simply meant to be games and the seriousness of the story didn't matter all that much. And a game where they have to use almost quarter century old characters isn't going to be the game to start the shift back to video game zaniness. If anything it is only going to remind people how much gaming has progressed since 1997.

On the contrary, FFVIIR shows that you can take a 'zany' game telling a 20 old year story and shows that it can still work. The characters in FFVII are, in part, caricatures. They have very clearly defining personality traits that are exaggerated to fit the tone. I don't think a girl who flirts while running away from a reactor explosion is particularly out of place in a city built 300 metres in the sky by an electric power company who has their own army of enhanced super soldiers.

And it works. Plenty of people are finding that this is just... better... than a lot of what is coming out these days.

I'm glad to have FFVII demonstrate that even in the year 2020 it's possible to have a really well done, well polished, non-sad dad story in a mainstream video game.

[tony123]

If anything, I feel the campiness of FFVII is sonething modern mainstream gaming is seriously lacking and I hope it’ll usher in a new era of zaniness. Cultural shifts happen and games being super serious all the time is already stale

With narrative storytelling in games being taken more seriously than ever now and with movies and tv shows looking towards video games for ideas of what to make more than they ever have before I think they are a long ways away from a shift back to the era where games were simply meant to be games and the seriousness of the story didn't matter all that much. And a game where they have to use almost quarter century old characters isn't going to be the game to start the shift back to video game zaniness. If anything it is only going to remind people how much gaming has progressed since 1997.

On the contrary, FFVIIR shows that you can take a 'zany' game telling a 20 old year story and shows that it can still work. The characters in FFVII are, in part, caricatures. They have very clearly defining personality traits that are exaggerated to fit the tone. I don't think a girl who flirts while running away from a reactor explosion is particularly out of place in a city built 300 metres in the sky by an electric power company who has their own army of enhanced super soldiers.

And it works. Plenty of people are finding that this is just... better... than a lot of what is coming out these days.

I'm glad to have FFVII demonstrate that even in the year 2020 it's possible to have a really well done, well polished, non-sad dad story in a mainstream video game.

It will still have its audience. But no this will not start a trend to these types of games becoming as popular as they once were again. The gaming audience is older now than it used to be and most of those people in their 30's and 40's that are still playing games are going to want more realistic type of characters that they can relate to. And the younger people are now going to look at a character like Ellie and how much more badass she is than any character from the likes of FF7. Bad ass characters tend to be what people like these days. Not girls with hot mini skirts who go into sexualized poses during the game (that kind of thing was popular twenty years ago).

[Mercen-X]

Speaking as someone who's at least seen the first reactor mission in full, even in heavily dangerous situations and almost dying *twice* as the place collapses around her, she never misses a beat to yell out stuff like "my hero", basically lines that no real person would ever say in a situation like that, to the point where the other members of AVALANCHE are openly annoyed with her and tell her to cut it out and focus.

1st: Jessie herself says she will basically lose her mind in panic if she doesn't talk. Just because the guy she finds attractive and is currently right up behind her is the dominating subject at the forefront of her thoughts, doesn't detract from her character or the situation's sense of realism.
2nd: to suggest that no real person would behave in such a way in a crisis or other life-threatening situation is dismissive of all of the real people who have used humor and/or excessive dialogue to cope with dire situations. My cousin is one of those girls who won't stop talking in a desperate situation that "you would think" would require calm and focus.

As for needing to be rescued, it's just one of the scenes that wanted to be replicated from the original. It doesn't speak to anything deeper.

[Fox]

Bad ass characters tend to be what people like these days. Not girls with hot mini skirts who go into sexualized poses during the game (that kind of thing was popular twenty years ago).

If you didn't manage to come away with the conclusion that 'Tifa is a badass' then I have to wonder if we were playing the same game.

[tony123]

Bad ass characters tend to be what people like these days. Not girls with hot mini skirts who go into sexualized poses during the game (that kind of thing was popular twenty years ago).

If you didn't manage to come away with the conclusion that 'Tifa is a badass' then I have to wonder if we were playing the same game.

Tifa is not a bad ass. Badass girls these days aren't dressed in miniskirts and placed in positions in order to show off their chests.