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Thread: Chris Pratt Attacked

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    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    Personally, I find it the most meaningful trait of a person whether they find reasons and justifications to act as insulting assholes because they like doing so, or whether they just don't, because they don't like doing so. Politics is one of the most prominent 'reasons' for it these days it seems. It easily controls people with a joy for hurting others to self-righteously gang up on someone and have a blast picking on them, even better if it's in a group. On anyone who makes a convenient target for it. Be that a minority or majority. It's actually interesting to see how the internet turned things a bit so now majorities make just as convenient targets for it - or even moreso - than minorities. But I do hope political alignment ends up more meaningful than whether you have your fun hurting one group or the other. Practically, I mean, not in theory. I don't want to hear whose rights you support while all you actually do is use them and their suffering as weapons to have your own fun ganging up on others.

    Regardless of political alignment, having joy or no joy at hurting others is the most consistent thing I found in people. I never see people who love hurting others passing up a super convenient opportunity to do so. Without fail, it happens, every time. There's always 'reasons to do so' for them, and never 'reasons not to do so'. And when challenged, there's always 'reasons why it's not that bad' and never 'reasons why it may actually be that bad'. This Chris Pratt thing too just feels like two camps of these kinds of assholes trying to hurt each other. Nothing less, nothing more. "Just another day," in the end. But then it got brought back up because convenient opportunities are impossible to pass up on, I suppose.

  3. #33
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    Calling out bad takes for being bad takes isn't the same as taking joy in hurting people just for the sake of hurting them. Particularly when said bad takes can lead to justifying actual harm. I do not have fun constantly feeling the need to challenge bad ideas. It's frustrating and exhausting. But it also needs to be done.

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     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    The common complaint I hear is that if someone is in a minority opinion we should ignore it instead of opposing it because there is a perception of "bullying". This is not okay. Without challenging problematic commentary, they are left to think it's acceptable and spread the commentary to more impressionable people more often. You're not arguing or disputing for the person set in their ways, you're doing so for the audience. If troubling ideals are left without a response, the audience will more likely accept it.

    Just cause it's an unpopular opinion and many think so, doesnt mean that it's not still problematic and needs refuting. Telling people they shouldn't comment because others already have just silences more people. Every voice is valid, even if it's similar in nature to others already spoken.


    In this case it's just silly celeb news but it has underlying problems

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    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    I don't think there's any point in challenging these 'reasons' of yours because they're as replaceable as your targets. Instead I can only reiterate what I said before: people who like hurting others will always find reasons and justifications to do so. And that's exactly what happened, I called it so precisely that even I hate it. Finding reasons not to do so? Was never going to happen. Finding reasons as for why it may actually be bad despite justifications? Nope. Making the conscious decision not to post, or even posting against the dogpiling, because you do have some lingering aversion to hurting people? Definitive no, never ever.

    And in regards to refuting, it's not like you even did any refuting. The refutation in this thread ever since its revival has amounted to "lol". Even if I wanted to learn anything from this conversation, to actually broaden my perspective, there is nothing to learn from. Or what, is "crimes against humanity are bad" meant to be a novel take that really broadens my horizons? And if you count this as 'refutations' instead of 'having a laugh at someone's expense', then I don't think there ever will be anything to learn in the future, either.

    And seriously, it's hard to believe you're "forcing yourself to do it despite not wanting to" or "doing it for the audience" when you just as much do so in a discord channel you're both free to enter and not enter as you wish (and apparently go into semi-daily) where the potential 'audience to convince' is nowhere to be found or in special cases even outright banned, to keep all your enjoyment of pointing and laughing at dumb takes on the internet safe and secure in your gang. Yeah no, that's not how someone who finds this frustrating and exhausting, or is doing this for anyone other than themselves, acts.

    I'm not sure if you're just lying to me knowingly, or if you're in denial yourself, but any 'audience' there is for this thread - like me I guess - will take one look at this thread and see people ganging up on a convenient target. At best they'll learn to keep silent about certain viewpoints, not because they're actually bad, but because they paint a target on you for the gang to pile on against. Everything I say is surely so blatantly obvious to people on the outside. There is no other way you can actually read this thread and see it as 'refutations and challenges of bad ideas'. Even Vyk - a member of the audience you probably imagine - immediately read it as dogpiling in his first post in here, and everyone like him who doesn't post will surely go on seeing it like that. Does that not bother you if your goal is to convince the audience?

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     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    Soooo people should just sit in silence cause you perceive it as "bullying" and "dogpiling" that their commentary is unimportant because oh no, a person is getting replied to already.

    Nah. You still wont convince me karifean that remaining silent is the better option. Even you aren't doing that.

  7. #37
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Soooo people should just sit in silence cause you perceive it as "bullying" and "dogpiling" that their commentary is unimportant because oh no, a person is getting replied to already.

    Nah. You still wont convince me karifean that remaining silent is the better option. Even you aren't doing that.
    Wasn't this about the goal of the audience watching being convinced rather than the participants' individual rights irrespective of any audience? Well, anyways.

    Not because I perceive it as that, because it *is* that. If it's only my own perception then hell no I don't expect you to cater to that. But - is it truly only mine? You can tell the difference between "having fun jabbing at someone at their expense" and "commentary with value" I trust, so please show me how this is absolutely the latter, and definitely not the former. Ideally also taking into consideration that some things, if meant genuinely, are better voiced in PMs so as to not intentionally publicly humiliate who you're talking to if that's truly not what you're aiming for. That's how we get on the same page in the first place. And if you do, then I'll learn something from it as well which I'd welcome. So please.

    Honestly I don't think many people participating in here even have any illusions over what this is. This is a whole bunch of people having fun at the expense of a convenient target. Nothing less, nothing more. I probably wouldn't have spoken up if people at least owned that that's what they're doing. Tbh it was Del's post primarily that made me decide to post myself at all. Part of why I appreciate people like Jinx more and more these days lol...

  8. #38
    *permanent smite* Spuuky's Avatar
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    people who like hurting others will always find reasons and justifications to do so
    This is true. That is why it is good to ridicule the people who say bad things, so that other people who might say bad things instead do not. The goal isn't to convince anyone, because no one can be convinced, as per your own beliefs.

    In short, the goal is public humiliation, because that is how social pressure works and has always worked, for the entirety of human history; people will always want to do bad things, so you make the cost of doing bad things high enough that they don't. You don't try to convince them that those things are bad; by the time they are adults, they already know that or they will never learn.

    If he, you, or anyone else was going to learn something here, they would have done it long ago from the large body of work in which these issues have been seriously discussed. They didn't. They won't. No amount of reasoning (again) will explain how power dynamics and privilege work, for instance.

  9. #39
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    There's a certain irony to complaining about "bullying" when once upon a time the same person said it was fine for someone to lie about me and accuse me of believing horrific things I've never believed or expressed because I "deserved it." Something they did immediately after complaining about disagreement being bullying back then too.

    Hypocrisy is a hell of a drug yo.

  10. #40
    Crazy Scot. Cid's Knight Shauna's Avatar
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    Okay. I think this thread has run its course.

    Chris Pratt is doing just fine after the horrific attacks, which is something we're all happy for.

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