OOC: The 'second' Sephiroth also talks when he throws the destruct materia at you in the basement of the Shinra Mansion.
OOC: The 'second' Sephiroth also talks when he throws the destruct materia at you in the basement of the Shinra Mansion.
The Seph Cloud attacks in the reactor does NOT die, he definately falls into the lifestream and is carried to the Northern crater.
The Tattoo thing is irrelevant, I don't quite see why people can look past Jenova immitating a human body, yet an ink marking is somehow beyond belief.
I don't see why the person you hear about shouldn't be Sephiroth, other than the fact that noone recognises probably the most famous SOLDIER ever. I also want to point out, Jenova has been alive for millenia, can survive in parts, and can change appearance and size at will. I have a feeling that despite the amount of effort required to pull off the amazing draw a number on your hand routine, she might manage a bit of impressionism at the same time.
My only problem with Kishi's view is that I don't think Jenova Synthesis is from the head. The name suggests it is a combination of things, and as it appears at the site of the reunion it would seem sensible that this is in fact (almost) all of Jenova, brought back together.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Phoenix I have to agree with you. How can cloud make it out of the lifestream if sephiroth couldn't himself? I was thinking that the whole time that you all were talking about it. Cloud does run that sword in him but it's like in his middle right you can live from that...
Originally posted by Phoenix 17
The Seph Cloud attacks in the reactor does NOT die, he definately falls into the lifestream and is carried to the Northern crater.
The Tattoo thing is irrelevant, I don't quite see why people can look past Jenova immitating a human body, yet an ink marking is somehow beyond belief.
I don't see why the person you hear about shouldn't be Sephiroth, other than the fact that noone recognises probably the most famous SOLDIER ever. I also want to point out, Jenova has been alive for millenia, can survive in parts, and can change appearance and size at will. I have a feeling that despite the amount of effort required to pull off the amazing draw a number on your hand routine, she might manage a bit of impressionism at the same time.
My only problem with Kishi's view is that I don't think Jenova Synthesis is from the head. The name suggests it is a combination of things, and as it appears at the site of the reunion it would seem sensible that this is in fact (almost) all of Jenova, brought back together.
I agree with this. I'd also like to add some important dialogue stuff that you guys have mentioned here.
*SPOILERS!*
[Sephiroth dives on the party. The party members fall. Sephiroth swings his sword. He doesn't drop a piece of Jenova. Instead, he fights himself. In the boss battle, you encounter Jenova*Death. After defeating him/her/it...]
CLOUD: "Jenova's cells... hmm. So that's what this is all about. The Jenova Reunion..."
TIFA: "Not Sephiroth!? You mean all this time it wasn't Sephiroth we were after?"
CLOUD: "I'll explain later. Right now, the only thing I'm thinking about is beating Sephiroth."
TIFA: "But Sephiroth is..."
CLOUD: "He's here. the real Sephiroth is just beyond here. It's both incredibly wicked and cruel... But it's releasing a powerfully strong will from deep within
this planet's wound."
So Sephiroth's strong will (or Jenova Cells) are controlling the clones and everything "within the planet's wound", the Lifestream, I assume. And after that battle, you re-gain the Black Materia, which means you just defeated the same guy who was in the Temple of Ancients and took Black Materia from Cloud.
For Jenova's head being Jenova*Synthesis, it could be true. I mean, the names Jenova*Birth or Jenova*Life don't seem to have anything to do with Jenova's hands, and the remnants of Jenova's body is named Jenova*Death. So you destroyed all of Jenova's body during those first three Jenova battles, right? Except that Jenova was actually a headless creature. But the real Sephiroth took Jenova's head and was carrying it (Mako reactor, five years before the game started) so he fell into the Lifestream with that head. The head was the only thing that was remaining of Jenova. So when you were going to fight Sephiroth, he sent the head to fight you, as a creature called Jenova*Synthesis. According to Final Fantasy VII OST (which has names based somewhat on the Japanese versions of the names), that last Jenova form is called "Jenova Absolute" or "Perfect Jenova".
Finally, here's one important line which shows how it's Jenova all along, and he/she/it has just taken the form of Sephiroth all the time:
"The ability to change one's looks, voice, and words, is the power of Jenova."
People dislike FFIX because they're horrible idiots. - Kawaii Ryűkishi
"One-Winged Angel" is far and away the best final boss song ever
composed. - Kawaii Ryűkishi
well, there could be the fact that cloud had tifa to help him through, if it wernt for tifa then cloud would be screwed... or there could be the fact that sephiroth didnt want to get out because he wanted to gain the knowledge of the lifestream?Originally posted by Tidus StarWind
Phoenix I have to agree with you. How can cloud make it out of the lifestream if sephiroth couldn't himself? I was thinking that the whole time that you all were talking about it. Cloud does run that sword in him but it's like in his middle right you can live from that...
Sephiroth took a lot longer to get out than Cloud, plus he did have ultimate materia and Jenova helping him at the time.
I'm still sure the last Jenova is more than just the head. The reunion took place there, there were so many Jenova cell's running around, they must have gone somewhere. I'm sure the name is relevant aswell if not why wasn't it Jenova Afterlife, or Reincarnated, or Limbo. I reckon the cell's from the first three could have gone there too, leaving very few traces of Jenova left. The only left to be accounted for being Cloud's and Sephiroth's. The latter being added after the Synthesis battle.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
SM: You seem to have a personal grudge against me, though I have done nothing to you. Do you have something you'd like to get off your chest?
The Jenova theory seems interesting enough to look into. I'm due to replay FF7 anyway, so while going through the first disc, I'll keep this in mind. I'll see what I can come up with to support/argue-against it.
Talk like this ought to be reserved for Private Messages, please.Originally posted by Raistlin
SM: You seem to have a personal grudge against me, though I have done nothing to you. Do you have something you'd like to get off your chest?
Raistlin, don't feel offended too much by Sephiroth's Mate.
After all, he thinks Vincent is Cloud's father. Need I say more? (Everytime I even begin to consider that possibility, I want to take a drill and stick it into my brain).
How about we discuss...*cough* *looks at title* Two Sephiroths, and keep the disputes to elsewhere.
As Hojo states, Jenova's body itself started moving from the Shinra building. If each part was hands/arms or something, then that might still leave the body. The attachment shows a fleshy coloured (rather naked) body, a deformed head and got knows what else. It might seme plasuable that Jenova's head and body became one to form the final Jenova, and she changed her appearance to replace her lost arms. Or maybe this is how she originally appeared, before she came a female smurf ^_~
OOC: How/where did you get that picture?
skyblue FFCompendium, which has alot of nice pictures that I haven't seen anywhere else.
EDIT: In accordance to Kishi's cloak/cape debate, I found someone in Kalm saying a man in a black cloak had a wicked looking sword.
That doesn't help any. :P
Of course Sephiroth, whether a clone or Jenova, would have a sword. I was pointing out earlier that I believe someone(Dio, possibly) said that they saw the "black-cloaked man" and such with a number tatoo, and Jenova wouldn't bother with that. Meh
Oh, here's one thing I thought of that supports the Jenova-disguise theory:
Beginning of the 2nd disc, first time in the North Crater: you see Sephiroth killing all the failed clones? Well, if the Reunion was so Jenova to get her cells back, why would Sephy kill them before they got to the center? While it's somewhat plausible that Jenova was down there, collecting her cells from the dead bodies, it seems more likely that the Sephiroth you are seeing is Jenova getting her cells back by killing those clones.
I think if it is Jenova, that Jenova is under the will of Sephiroth.
"Our purpose is to deliver the Black Materia to our master."
To which the party concludes that Master = Sephiroth. So, seeing as Jenova is most likely the dominent of the two beings, I would think the Sephiroth you chase is infact a clone, possibly the clone we hear of at Gold Saucer with tattoo #1.
Something else interests me. In the Kalm flashback, Sephiroth states he has orders to take back the planet. How on earth does he get orders? My guess is that Jenova has mental control over him, the power to make him do as he will... puppet-like. So in theory, it's possible the head of Jenova was controlling Sephiroth, and also controlling the clones through his real body (the one at the Materia Tree).
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