Ok Cloud I don't quite get who you think's in charge.
Why wouldn't Jenova bother with a black cloak and number?
Ok Cloud I don't quite get who you think's in charge.
Why wouldn't Jenova bother with a black cloak and number?
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Sorry if I confuse you, but I'm torn between all theories. I'm trying to set out to find the truth, rather than agree or disgree to any ideas anyone has. It could be Jenova, or it could be a clone. Or even the real deal himself. Or maybe multiple people.
I'm pretty sure the person Dio speaks of is the Sephiroth look alike/whatever, and not a man in a cloak. Dio mentions that he looked the same age as Cloud. Cloud said that Sephiroth was alittle older than he back in Nibelheim 5 years ago, so if Sephiroth kept his youthful looks of 5 years ago, then Cloud and him would probably appear the same age.
Bah....this is all getting extremely confusing.
I always thought that a Sephiroth Clone was what released Jenova from from Hojo's lab in the Shinra HQ's. Other people are speculating that Jenova got out on her own.
So let me get this straight. Jenova simply sits in the back of the Nibelheim reactor doing nothing, allows Sephiroth to cut her head off and escape. Following that, she continues to not move and allows Hojo to move her to the Shinra building where she is held for 5 years and has cells extracted to make sephiroth clones.
And then suddenly......she breaks out of that thing she's in(with no head) and starts killing people? Why now? Why didn't she do this 5 years ago?
Somebody please clarify this for me.
Now I think about it, it might have been Cloud that released her. She just happens to escape when Cloud is asleep, on the very day in five years he's there. Then he wakes and the door to his cell is open.
Why has that never occured to me before?
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
This interesting article has many theories about Jenova, Sephiroth, Cloud, etc. But it also has a fair few spoilers, so take care if need be.
Basically, I've always believed that the Sephiroth who released Jenova, led Cloud around the world and (SPOILER) killed Aeris was, in fact, a powerful 'projection' of the real Sephiroth, who was entombed in that crystal in the North Cave. At one point it is said that Sephiroth can 'diffuse his will through the Lifestream'.
Sephiroth's powers, combined with Jenova's, allowed him to create a 'psychic shadow' which he could use to travel the world, transport Jenova, find the (SPOILER) black materia and interact with real people, all without having to leave the North Cave.
I didn't formulate any of these theories; but they do fit in with many people's understanding of events in the game, including my own.
Jenova under the will of Sephiroth? Wha?
Sephiroth released her. He thought she was his mother. He talked constantly of the "power of Jenova" and such. I find it very hard to believe that Jenova was under Sephy's will.
Pheonix: Jenova obviously bothered with a black-cloak, since you follow the black-cloaked man throughout disc 1. However, why would she bother with a tatoo? She wants to make herself look like Sephiroth, not a Sephy clone.
Why would Cloud release Jenova?
D: That's assuming an awful lot. When I heard that, I thought of only trying to control Cloud while entombed. I find it doubtful that he can create matter. Maybe a mere image of himself, with no substance.
Phoenix, I like your idea that Cloud released Jenova from captivity in Hojo's lab. It explains why Cloud's cell was open afterwards. It wouldn't make any sense if Seph or Jenova opened the cell.
Remember right before the group gets kidnapped, Cloud looks through the window of that container that contains Jenova and he starts freaking out. It's possible the Jenova was communicating with Cloud subconciously and Cloud eventually released her from captivity.
However, how did Cloud get out of the cell in the first place? I don't even think the Turks are silly enough to have forgotten to have locked the cell.
Last edited by Storm; 03-04-2003 at 02:57 AM.
Yeah, I thought that Sephiroth created a 'manifestation' of his will in order to release Jenova and do whatever else. This power is a result of Sephiroth's Jenova cells and the time he spent in the Lifestream.
The entity Cloud and co. encounter clearly uses Jenova's superhuman powers, yet it speaks in Sephiroth's words and from his perspective. Even though it's not Sephiroth's real body that the party chase, it still appears to be his mind in control (although we know that Sephiroth, too, was essentially Jenova's puppet, but that's just confusing the issue).
But whatever. I just like to think that it was actually Sephiroth, in one way or another, and not Jenova or some mindless experimental clone who I spent so many hours persuing.
*looks at topic: Two Sephiroths*
I believe that there was only one 'real' Sephiroth - the one in the North Crater. Besides him, there were his 'Illusory Sephiroth' and the men in black cloaks.
But hey, please don't read too much into my ideas. Any theory which fits the facts is just as likely to be right.
How could Cloud have released Jenova? You're watching him the whole time.
The cell was unlocked 'cause Sephy came by on a killing rampage. Who knows exactly how the cell opened, but Sephiroth was the cause.
Which brings a question about Kishi's Jenova theory: How could "Sephy 2" be Jenova if Jenova was still in confinement on your first trip to the Shinra HQ? You see her in Hojo's lab.
The group does fall asleep. It is possible that while everyone else is asleep Cloud escapes(I still don't know how yet) and releases Jenova. Remember, Cloud isn't sane at the time. There's a good chance he would not remember doing it. After all, at the time he was just a "puppet" to Jenova.
This game just keeps getting more and more difficult to analyze.....lol.
That's assuming an awful lot. Cloud's the main character. We follow him everywhere until later in Disc 2. How could Cloud sneak off?
That is incredibly hard to believe.
Yup. Cloud would have found it awfully difficult to sneak off, seeing as most jail cells don't open from the inside. Anyway, if Jenova could make Cloud break out of his own jail cell, why would she need someone to release her from her cell?
Not to mention the Shinra guard on duty would have noticed. Plus his way of killing wouldn't be proper for Cloud.
No human? Well Jenova isn't human. Then again, Sephiroth is somewhat 'super-human' in terms of strength.Red XIII
"No human could've done this."
"I'll go on ahead."
Though it's confusing. If the person who broke Cloud out of his cell was the same person they met on the Shinra boat, then why does the Sephiroth character say "Who are you?" when he/she meets with Cloud? If he saw him when he opened his cell, then surely he'd recognise Cloud there?
EDIT: Just playing the game, I found something interesting.
Here, Sephiroth 'remembers' being in Nibelheim mansion, probably refering to when he was studying there 5 years ago. Also, he speaks of Jenova as though she is a seperate entity to himself.Cloud
"Sephiroth!"
Sephiroth
"Being here brings back memories."
"Are you going to participate in the Reunion?"
Cloud
"I don't even know what a Reunion is!"
Sephiroth
"Jenova will be at the Reunion. Jenova will rejoin the Reunion
becoming a calamity from the skies."
Cloud
"Jenova, a calamity from the skies? You mean she wasn't an
Ancient!?"
Sephiroth
"...I see. I don't think you have the right to participate."
"I will go north past Mt. Nibel. If you wish to find out... then
follow..."
There still isn't any logical reason as to why Cloud's cell, and his cell alone, would have been the only one opened.
I suppose that if Jenova was the one killing everyone in the Shinra building then she could have possibly released Cloud, hoping that he would be able to find the black materia.
I guess another farfetched possibility would be that Hojo purposely left Cloud's cell unlocked in order to see how Cloud would react after he saw Jenova in his lab. Maybe he wanted to see if Jenova was still a puppeteer. Although, it still doesn't explain the "inhuman" way the Shinra soldier was killed.
Who knows? This mass confusion is what makes Final Fantasy VII such a great game.
Man there's been a lot of posts.
I'm not suggesting she was trying to copy a Sephy clone, that's stupid. I'm saying Seph would have a tattoo. He was himself injected with Jenova so he would have one. Nanaki has one, he isn't a clone either.
I still think it was Cloud, there is no other reason for the door to be open, or for it to have happened at that exact time. Opening the door, well I don't know, but I'm sure Jenova could have done it somehow.
Sephiroth did not release her. If you believe that I don't see how you can't believe Cloud released her. Cloud was in the building, with one door to stop him. Sephiroth was unconcious on another continent in a tomb of mako.
The Shinra guard wouldn't have noticed, he'd be too busy being dead. The inhuman thing could refer to the immense strength and lack of mercy that people under Jenova's control posses.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
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