The definition of a sephiroth clone is a human that has Jenova cells injected into them, correct?
Well, when Hojo injected himself with Jenova cells why did he turn into a wide mouth, one armed claw monster, and then into a flying mermaid god? Did he inject many more Jenova cells into himself?
Jenova would want Cloud to forget, for the same reason she decided to look like Sephiroth, she was manipulating him.
Err, I'm no psychiatrist, but Cloud was quite definately insane. To be honest, probably more than Seph.
Cloud was asleep at the time, he wouldn't have put up much of a fight.
I think Hojo injected more than usual, or possibly it was because he did it in one go, or... err...pass.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Hojo was required to make a show-stoppingly bizarre transformation because he was one of the game's more important supporting characters and one of the later boss fights.
OOC: Hojo always reminded me of Dr Lugae
Ok, then, Phoenix, how did Cloud get out of the cell?
And, yeah, Hojo transforming was just for game effects. Thinking about it too much will just give you a headache.
has any one thort that hojo might of been doin that due to the mako juice stuff he had only jus invented? plus he only jus injected himself with the cells
Given there isn't an explanation either way, I'd say Storm's Hojo idea makes sense to me. Other than that I can only guess.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
I too would have to agree with Storm's idea. It also explains the reason Hojo quit in the first place, only to be found working with Shinra again later in the game.
i dunno id hav fort bein injected with more jenova cells would jus increase the rate at which you lost it
Sephiroth's Mate originally said:
"Rufus the presidents son could hav done all of these
--- he would want dear ole dad dead so he could inherit the family buisness.
--- he killed the president with sephs sword although he could weild its true power he could still use it as a normal sword and i dont think the president would expect his son to jus kill him hence why he didnt run away
--- he released jenova to make it look like it was her (so now shes out of being frozen in some chemical soup which stops her from doing anything)
--- he released cloud and co so someone would kill jenova (easyer than sending an army to there death)
--- he jus happened to be there the day it all happened after being away on buissness for ages.
--- tell me if ive left something out."
This isn't possible, because when you go to the 70th floor after Jenova breaks loose you find Palmer hiding. Palmer says something to the extent that "I saw Sephiroth with my own eyes."
Which means, it's either a Sephiroth Clone or Jenova Disguised as Sephiroth.(In my opinion, it is the latter)
Last edited by Storm; 03-10-2003 at 10:40 PM.
[q=Storm]it's either a Sephiroth Clone or Jenova Disguised as Sephiroth.(In my opinion, it is the latter)[/q]
Yup, this seems to be the general consensus, but there are still mysteries.
1. Someone - or something - must've helped Jenova to escape. A headless body (even one with Jenova's powers) would have difficulty finding its way around.
2. If President Shinra was killed by Jenova, why would she bother assuming Sephiroth's form in order to do it? Why would she use his form to move around the place?
Warning - more spoilers than you could shake a stick at:
Here's my theory, with a bit of supporting evidence:
Sephiroth's 'manifestation' (mentioned earlier in this thread) carried Jenova out of the building. This explains Sephiroth being seen in the Shinra building. It also means that the party really was chasing Sephiroth (even if it was just a 'projection' of his mind and power)for the rest of the game, and it wasn't a colossal misunderstanding.
Evidence: Seph (as chased by the party) can fly, and pass through walls. Clearly not an entirely corporeal being... yet he can manipulate objects (use sword, throw Materia) kind of like a poltergeist. His words and actions suggest that he was Seph, and not Jenova. The real Seph's body, as we know, was in the North Cave, with no shirt or cape. This is the one killed by Cloud at the very end.
Further evidence of the 'Sephiroth Manifestation' theory: When the party is gathered around Holy's confinement vessel deep in the Planet, Sephiroth appears before them. Actually appears. This apparition is the same as the fully-dressed Sephiroth who they were chasing all along. It's obviously not the 'real' Sephiroth, because the real Seph had no shirt. It's the 'form' Sephiroth used so that he could leave the North Cave, find the Black Materia, free Jenova's body and take it to the Reunion.
The character's words, at times (such as on the Cargo Ship and other instances) support this theory, in my opinion.
It's entirely possible that the 'second Sephiroth', the 'manifestation', freed Cloud after releasing Jenova, so that he'd be able to attend the Reunion.
Or Cloud's cell door may simply have been opened by the dead guard inadvertently hitting a button on his remote control, or it could have been a side-effect of the heavily damaged walls and equipment left behind by the rampage of Jenova/ Sephiroth.
Okay good idea, this thread is getting a bit mixed up so I'll summarise my stance aswell just to get it clear.
Jenova was behind the whole thing, from start to finish. The only time I think Sephiroth is in control is before he learns his history, and after you defeat Safer. By then he's too screwed up for any chance of turning back, this may even be Jenova's last effort of survival, and it's actually a one on one between Jenova and the last missing part of her body.
The Sephiroth you chase throughout the game is Jenova. This has been established by many people, I think Kishi has given the most conclusive evidence for this in this thread so check back for any proof (sorry if it was someone else, it's been a long thread). Jenova can alter her appearance, I believe this has already been quoted this thread, as I believe Jenova is in control I see no point for a projected image.
Cloud released Jenova, I originally thought of this as a reaction to a question on here, and the more I thought it through and people added to it, the more certain I am this is true. I've explained this several times this thread, so again check back for evidence.
Clones refer to anyone who was experimented on after the Nibelheim fire, there are few exceptions. Sephiroth probably has the tattoo number one as he was the original.
The entire point of all of this is for the reunion to take place successfully, so that Jenova can fully reform and take the power of the planet. She starts off in pieces and almost everything in the game revolves around this happening. This finishes with a final "Synthesis", then a bonding with her most concentrated puppet, Sephiroth.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
OK, I'm convinced. It's well-established that Sephiroth himself was simply Jenova's 'greatest puppet', even when he believed he was doing her bidding. One question though...
WHY did Jenova use Sephiroth's form during her travels around the world? Surely not simply to manipulate Cloud, she could do that easily enough (Temple of the Ancients and the Ancient City spring to mind).
So why, exactly, did Jenova choose to look like Sephiroth, act like him, speak like him and draw upon his memories?
One thing I particularly love about FFVII is its many levels of meaning, its concealed truths and false realities. Unlocking these, and the reasoning behind them, is an endless source of interest, even years later.
I think Jenova could deduce that it wouldn't be very efficient to trudge around the world as a giant alien creature, making a spectacle of itself all along the way. So, when deciding what illusion to use to disguise itself, it simply chose the human who apparently had the greatest connection to it--Sephiroth. Like Phoenix and Big D said, Sephiroth was its greatest puppet. However, he was also the one who had its cells inside of him since before he was even born, who made off with its head five years ago, and was, after all, currently located at the very place where the Reunion was to take place.
Yeah, the connection between Sephiroth and Jenova is extremely strong. But something has occurred to me.
Jenova's headless body probably wouldn't have any real control, would it? Beyond instinct, I mean. Allow me to explain. The Clones were all driven by 'instinct' instilled by Jenova's cells, and by Sephiroth's 'summon' (they all felt the call to join with him at the Reunion). So I figure that Jenova's body couldn't have left the Shinra building on its own. Something must have been controlling it, guiding it. That something...? The mind of Sephiroth. Now, I'm not suggesting that Sephiroth was the real puppet-master, but rather that his mind was guiding Jenova's body toward the Reunion. We all know that Jenova was the one who was REALLY in control, but Sephiroth would at least have believed that the thoughts and ideas were his own. After all, Cloud delivered the Black Materia to Sephiroth, the Clones all wanted to become one with Sephiroth. It seems that Sephiroth's voice was the one leading all to the Reunion; Sephiroth was the one being reborn as a 'God'. So, to recap...
Jenova had the ultimate influence over Sephiroth. This we know. But Sephiroth's mind reached out over the distance from the North Cave to the Clones, and to Midgar where it took command of Jenova's incapacitated body. Sephiroth sought the Black Materia so that he could become a 'God' and rule the Planet alongside his 'Mother'.
THe only point of this theory is that it puts Sephiroth in place as one of the story's main antagonists. It means that Sephiroth really did kill Aeris and summon the meteor, even if his crimes were all commited as a result of Jenova's invasive corruption.
At the Reunion, all of the Clones were uttering, "Must bring it to Sephiroth...Sephiroth is calling...must bring it to Sephiroth..." so I don't dount that it was Sephiroth's voice, and not Jenova's, that was leading them. Cloud himself realised, "I wasn't pursuing Sephiroth... I was being summoned by Sephiroth." If it was Jenova, she wouldn't bother to pretend to be someone else, when speaking into the minds of those who carried her cells.
As long as Jenova was dismembered, she wasn't able to directly command anyone. However her prized toy, Sephiroth, knew how to restore her and how to gain the power necessary for the two of them to control the Planet.
I don't know how sensible or logical this is... but it's one theory which combines the best of each:
Following this premise, it was Jenova in disguise as Sephiroth who the party chased throughout the game. But also, it means that Sephiroth was responsibe for the crimes and actions attributed to him: killing Aeris and President Shinra, summoning Meteor, and so forth. Even if his real body (as said in the game) never left the North Cave.
THis theory would unite the story, as told in the game, with the 'true' story which can only be interpreted from the events, after the fact.
But perhaps I'm just spouting nonsense?
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