Bah. I think she had full control, always did. Yeah, her headless body might need guidance, but her head can do that. I think Sephiroth, after he went insane, mentally submitted to Jenova's will. He called her his "Mother" and an Ancient. I think he would've willingly obeyed her every command.
Kishi: You still haven't explained how you think Jenova's body escaped.
I like to think it escaped by itself. If it was able to leave huge claw marks in metal walls, I think it could have knocked down a door.
I am shocked by what you have all failed to realize.
First off. I have played the game 6 times, so I know what I'm talking about.
It IS possible for him to have survived the fall. One thing we know is that it was five years. That's enough time to recouperate don't you think? Also, he is just aclone of the real sephiroth, which is the one where it plays "One winged angel", as well as Cloud. Also, I believe there are atually a grand total of "21" Sephiroth clones.
All of the guys that are in the capes:18
Cloud and "Sephiroth", "Man in the black cape sephiroth":2
Zack:1
Sephiroth couldn't have been Zack because they were on that mission together in Nibelheim.
Also, Sephiroth "One winged angel one" is what was born from Jenova...Which came in Meteor, leaving a scar in the planet. Jenova must have left Sephiroth in there while she tried to hide herself somewhere else. Jenova had the "Man in the black cape" Sephiroth to summon meteor again.
Clear anything up?
I am the one and only...
(>'.')> <---This guy
what? oops. okay.
I am the one and only...
/////SEPHIROTH88\\\\\
Jenova didn't arrive on the Planet courtesy of Meteor. There's nothing in the game's text that implied that it did. As important as the Ultimate Destructive Magic was to the Cetra, Ifalna would have mentioned during her explanation of Jenova's arrival if Jenova had ever used it.
Errr...first off, Seph88: Obviously, Sephiroth survived the fall. He's entombed in mako in the North Crater until early disc 2.
And when did anyone say anything about Sephiroth being Zack?
Righty. Here's another of those 'approximate timeline of events' thingies which may help:
1: Jenova falls from sky, Planet injured.
2: Ancients nearly decimated, Jenova confined.
3: Jenova dug up, mistakenly identified as an 'Ancient'.
4: Jenova project. Sephiroth born.
5: Nibelheim incident. Sephiroth disappears. Sephiroth 'Clones' produced.
6: Cloud escapes to Midgar in delusional state.
7: Cloud incarcerated in Shinra building. Jenova's body escapes.
8. Sephiroth clones hear Sephiroth's voice telling them to find the Black Materia and head to the Reunion at the North Cave.
9. Cloud and co. pursue an entity that looks, speaks and acts like Sephiroth.
10. Cloud succumbs to Sephiroth's influence and gives him the Black Materia. Meteor summoned.
11. Jenova-Synthesis, Bizarro Sephiroth, Safer-Sephiroth and human Sephiroth all killed. World saved.
The crimson entries are points that either aren't entirely clear or are still being debated.
Anyone else notice that Sephiroth's transformations (Bizarro and Safer) are far stronger than Jenova-Synthesis? That's part of the reason that I believe Sephiroth was the one who was 'becoming one with the Planet' and gaining greater powers, rather than Jenova herself. Of course, once Sephiroth is deprived of Jenova's help and reduced to his true human form, he's really pretty average. He was totally dependent on jenova for his physical, mental and magical strength; he was subservient to Jenova and her wishes, just not consciously. He believed that he was responsible for what he was doing and planning. (My opinion only - not guaranteed fact).
Last edited by Big D; 03-14-2003 at 11:55 PM.
12. Everyone gets ice cream.
13. Are you taking the mickey?
I believe the reason Bizzaro and Safer are stronger than Synthesis, is because they are the final form of Synthesis. Jenova Synthesis is all of her body joined together except Cloud, Sephiroth, and maybe some loose ends. Sephiroth is the largest human source of Jenova, and is added after Synthesis battle.
It couldn't have been a clone you follow. Clones don't look like Sephiroth, only one clone makes it near Sephiroth's strength, and clones can't fly or turn into Jenova Death.
I still think Jenova had complete control, and that she killed Aeris, maybe directly, Sephiroth has no reason to have any kind of psychic ability, certainly not to that extent.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Bah, Sephiroth was more powerful for one reason and one reason only: game mechanics.
Sephiroth summoned Meteor, so he's the one that HAD to be killed. Also, Cloud viewed him as the main bad guy from the beginning. Of course Sephy'd be the last fight, and wouldn't it be pathetic if the last fight was a breeze?
[q=Raistlin]Sephiroth summoned Meteor[/q]
No argument there, but one must wonder, why?
After reading the opinions and inferences in this thread, it would seem strange that Sephiroth, and not Jenova, would do the actual summoning of Meteor.
What I'm trying to understand - and what hasn't yet been satisfactorily explained - is why Jenova impersonated Sephiroth, and why the Clones were all drawn toward Sephiroth, rather than Jenova.
Sephiroth, entombed in the North Cave, was already in the 'Promised Land' and contained a high concentration of active Jenova cells, so I guess that explains him being the focal point of the 'Reunion', but it doesn't explain why Jenova would travel the world in her ''son's'' guise, pretending to be him; even right at the end, before the fight against Bizarro-Sephiroth, the party is faced by the same 'form' of Sephiroth that they were chasing all along. Why continue the pretense? Why bother with it at all?
I'm genuinely sorry if it sounds like I'm being pedantic and argumentative. I'd just like to understand and discuss these issues more fully.
This point has been debated and discussed amongst FFVII fans for years. Technically, some people will always believe that Jenova was the main villain and the rest will stay firm that Sephiroth is. I tend to beleive the latter. The best I can offer is to explain why.
First, Sephiroth was created in a very unique way to anyone else ever injected with Mako & Jenova cells. His power was abnormal because of this. Now, before his pilgrimage of the Lifestream, Sephiroth was obviously emotionally unhinged, injured and insane. At this point, perhaps he could have been manipulated by Jenova. But, we must remember the Mako inside him. Add his trip through the Lifestream to that and it's not hard to see how he could easily form the will to overpower the Jenova traces within him.
He had her powers through his cell injection, but he was also working off Mako power and the Knowledge gained through the Lifestream. He also possessed a very strong will, as mentioned several times in the game. His insanity remained, though now it was more manageable and he had a plan. To be a God. To do this he would summon Meteor, create a wound and sit in the middle of it, absorbing energy, much like he did in the North Crater. Obviously, it wasn't enough for him. He needed a great upsurgence of energy.
Now, in my mind, Jenova is just another tool for Sephiroth to reach his goals. Jenova possessed the power to influence the minds of others and change her form. Therefore, it's not impossible that Sephiroth could take hold of someone (a "clone" for example) mentally and utilize the shape-changing power to create a walking, talking image of himself to do as he needs, since he's pretty much held up in the crater.
That's just one way to look at it.
I think the Sephiroth that you see for the first half of the game was one of the guys in the black capes but a fully devolped clone with Sephiroth's fighting ability.
This can be very confusing as there were two people who looked the same as Sephiroth, I have never really understanded it because the Sephiroth clone had Sephiroth's real sword which is odd, in the game it did say that the Sephiroth clone was carrying Jenova around, the clone was not Jenova also.
a new theory. maybe a loada trout but i think its possible.
now we all know that seph was never injected with jenova cells (his mother was). and through genetics and all that stuff sephiroth would have inherited the powers/strengths of his mother and father (even if they were put in them artifically).
so seph has jenovas powers and strengths from his mom. this would mean hes hard but he has no jenova cells in him. so jenova unable to control him (this is probablly the wrong wording but)* struck a deal with him to rule the earth as gods side by side.
(from the * another possibilty) she chased him around the planet trying to find him to kill him and end his reing before he summoned meteor and everything including jenova died. however in north crater jus before the seph fights you find her but she hates you aswell as seph (this time for having her cells) so she tries to kill you but fails. then you see seph fight him and happy ever after.
jenova diguised herself as seph so that she could be left alone by everyone (because sephs really hard) if she needed to know something she could jus get someone to tell her (because noones gonna argue with sephiroth the greatest ever warrior) and also to manipulate cloud and co (check back for why shed need to do this.) and also so that if anyone seen her they would think it was seph and tell others this therefore making it seem like she isnt involved.
does that make it clear enuf as to why she takes sephs form?
also sephs wearing clothes at the end. well duh of course he is. altho he werent wearin anythin in the mako dont mean he dont have em with him. coz when u fight him (very last time) hes wearin trousers. and he went into the mako in clothes. i dont think hes jus gonna strip off coz hes drownin in lifestream. also if they shown u seph in his b-day suit u wudnt know hu it was. it could jus be an old guy with long hair (the graphics are trout so go figure.)
also to find out if jenova got out of her cell jus check if the door breaks out or in (out=jenova got out. in=someone (probablly cloud) broke her out
ive probablly left summit out so tell me if non makes sense.
Your theory goes a bit wrong at the start because Hojo injected the Jenova cells into Lucireas(sp?) woam and into Sephiroth, Jenova was not Sephiroth's mother, Jenova is a monstor that shinra drawed cells out of to give members of soldier, Sephiroth thought Jenova was his mother but in fact Lucirea(sp?) was.
Jenova is not male nor female just a monster created by shinra, Sephiroth weared clothes in the end fight because it was more of a dream thing even though it was the real Sephiroth Cloud fights.
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