two sephiroths
everyone knows that sephiroth died by the hand of cloud (well kinda died) then he fell in to the lifestream and remained there getting more powerful and more cetra like. however there was another sephiroth produced, but first of all how was he produced and second of all where did he go after cloud gave the black materia to the real sephiroth?
Ok, first off Sephiroth didn't become more "Cetra-like." He was just entombed in Mako.
Next, remember why everyone was at the North Crater to begin with? The Reunion! Jenova wanted her cells back. So, she took the Sephiroth clone and, I assume, absorbed her cells back. She must not have done that to Sephiroth because:
a. She still had some use for him, or
b. The cells somehow mutated with Sephiroth, which would also explain why she didn't absorb Cloud.
I agree with Raistlin:
1 - Jenova may not have absorbed Cloud's cells, because she still had a use for him too, namely to get the black materia.
2 - I don't quite know where the second "Sephiroth" came from, although, I believe the one in the North Crater is the "real" one, the one that Cloud killed in the Nibelheim reactor was someone, maybe a clone, who had Sephiroth's consience/mindset, after he went psycho in the Shinra mansion. You will also remember that Seph only appeared in the Northern crater after Meteor was summoned, so another theory could be that he didn't die after Cloud threw him over the edge at Nibelheim, and he went into hiding after the incident, and then, went on his wee rampage starting in the Shinra HQ building. This is technically possible, as Sephiroth demonstrated the ability to fly at the tmie you ge the Destruct materia.
just a theory but
this is kinda speculation but after seph fell into mako in the bottom of the reactor is it at all possible that he fell in to the lifestream (like cloud did) but in stead of being found just got carried around learning from it before finally being washed up at the north crater?
also i know this ones really stupid and unlikely but is it possible that zack (who was killed by the shinra guards) was revived by his jenova cells (from hojo in the shinra basement) and slowly turned into the sephiroth clone?
i know the last one stupid but is it possible?
The Sephiroth who is skewered by Cloud in the flashback, who appears embedded in the mako, and who confronts the party at the end of the game, is the One True Sephiroth.
The Sephiroth who is chased from Midgar to Mythril Mines to the cargo ship to Costa del Sol to the Gold Saucer to Nibelheim to the Temple of the Ancients to the Forgotten City to the Whirlwind Maze, who drops PIECES of himself that just happen to turn into Jenova incarnations, is Jenova's body made to look like Sephiroth and drawn towards the Northern Cave for the Reunion. It's not a clone or anything--just Jenova. She burst out of her little cage in Shin-Ra Tower, remember?
She separated her arms from herself to form Jenova-BIRTH and Jenova-LIFE to try to kill Cloud and company, and Jenova-DEATH was her last stand. The party reaches a point in the Whirlwind Maze where the "Sephiroth" they've been chasing appears in the air above them, then dives down to strike with his sword, beginning the Jenova-DEATH fight. After the fight, there's nothing left to be seen of the body. Tifa and Cloud also have some lines at that point further affirming that it was Jenova and not actually Sephiroth whom they were chasing all that time.
"But then, where did Jenova-SYNTHESIS come from?" As easily as the first three came from Jenova's arms and body, the last one came from Jenova's head, which Sephiroth cut off and took with him when he was flung into the Lifestream.That's true. I think "he" mentions something like that happening to him, possibly in the Temple of the Ancients.Originally posted by Sephiroth's Mate
just a theory but
this is kinda speculation but after seph fell into mako in the bottom of the reactor is it at all possible that he fell in to the lifestream (like cloud did) but in stead of being found just got carried around learning from it before finally being washed up at the north crater?God no. Zack died.also i know this ones really stupid and unlikely but is it possible that zack (who was killed by the shinra guards) was revived by his jenova cells (from hojo in the shinra basement) and slowly turned into the sephiroth clone?
i know the last one stupid but is it possible?
Yes. Leave Zack dead.
Kishi: That's an interesting theory, and I have to say one I had not considered before.
However, I do believe someone(Dio is sticking out in my mind) said that the "black-cloaked man" you're chasing in the first disc had a number tattoo on his hand. I'm not completely positive, but I am pretty sure about that. I'll look through a script tonight if I don't feel too lazy.
A Sephy clone could just as easily dropped pieces of Jenova that she'd given to him, although your theory does explain that bit a bit better, it doesn't explain the tattoo.
Cloud was looking for Sephiroth, but he only asked people if they had seen a man in a black cape. He never mentioned his long silky alabaster hair or rippling pectorals or anything, so the people he asked mentioned any black-caped Joe they caught sight of. One of those, evidently, was one of the tattooed people in black cloaks making his way to the Northern Cave for Reunion. A separate entity of a similar profile, you see.
And, not to fault you, Raist, but what I just said about Jenova posing as Sephiroth and all is fact, not theory. The game demonstrates it and even explains it in the text; it's just that a lot of people don't seem to take notice of it for some reason.
well thats a damn good theory and that fits unlike a lot of other theorys. well hats off to ya that seems like the only solid theory on this sight well done.
To summarise:
- There was one true Sephiroth who died in Nibelhiem.
- There were lots of CLONES of Sephiroth, such as they tried to do with Cloud and Zack after the Nibelhiem incident.
- These clones are not aggressive though; they're just dumb creatures to be honest.
- The Sephiroth that attacks them in the actual game time (not flashbacks and whatnot) is, as Kishi so rightly said, in fact Jenova.
I think that's everything that needs to be said on the matter...
And here's where I'll stay / For ten years and a day
We're on a quest to find hidden treasure / And mystery on The Wild Sea
Kishi: That's very arrogant of you, saying it's pure fact. I'd like you to explain here how the "second Sephiroth" can ONLY be Jenova and not a clone.
The only thing that I see that supports your theory is that the Jenovas you fight as the game progresses.
However, there's still the matter of the "black-cloaked man" you're chasing. You follow him onto the boat to Costa del Sol...and the "second Sephiroth's" on the boat, but none of those disfigured clones. Shinra(the Turks, actually) trace him to the Temple of the Ancients, and there's none of those all-in-black guys there.
So, unless half the time you're chasing the "second Sephiroth" and half the time you picked up traces of just another clone, which seems highly unlikely and not mentioned at all in the game, the "second Sephiroth" cannot be Jenova-in-disguise.
Raist has a point I guess.
I always thought of it as the "second Sephiroth" being a clone with jenova cells who was being summoned by Jenova, broke Jenova out of the SinRa Building, and was taking it to the nothern crater for the reunion.
I guess both theories are likely, but Kishi's seems to stand out as if there was text about it. I also remember hearing something about a tatoo, but maybe it was Jenova formed as Sephiroth who made the tatoo, I really don't know.
The fact that you see Sephiroth dive at the party, fight a Jenova battle, then don't see him at all (no flying away or disappearing or anything) afterwards is proof enough, really. He didn't drop a Jenova arm or anything that time; it was his body that you fought, and it was a Jenova battle. And if that isn't proof enough, then there's dialogue sometime after the battle that spells it out. I think it's Tifa who comes right out and says it.Originally posted by Raistlin
Kishi: That's very arrogant of you, saying it's pure fact. I'd like you to explain here how the "second Sephiroth" can ONLY be Jenova and not a clone.Did anyone mention a tattooed guy going on the boat? I don't remember that. If they just mentioned the black cloak, they could have been describing Sephiroth.However, there's still the matter of the "black-cloaked man" you're chasing. You follow him onto the boat to Costa del Sol...and the "second Sephiroth's" on the boat, but none of those disfigured clones.Yes, there is. He's at the entrance, before Tseng.Shinra(the Turks, actually) trace him to the Temple of the Ancients, and there's none of those all-in-black guys there.I explained in my last post why it could be and probably is.So, unless half the time you're chasing the "second Sephiroth" and half the time you picked up traces of just another clone, which seems highly unlikely and not mentioned at all in the game[...]
raistlin just accept that there is no floors in (that long unspellable names) theory he has a valid point for each of your objections and even more evidence in dialogue to suppot it.
i no i shudnt double post but i forgot this, also u never (to my recollection) actually hear the "second Sephiroth" talk with a voice only with telepathy
Also i dont think sephiroth would have left tseng living hes not that sloppy
Edit by Kishi: You can edit your old post with the edit/delete button to avoid double-postin'.
Next time, just use the edit/delete button at the bottom of your posts beneath your sigs.
Yeah, I don't really recall much of the "second Sephiroth" ever talking unless used through the mind or so, that goes toward proof that it was Jenova.
The second Sephiroth (Secondroth?) did talk, I believe, in blue dialogue boxes and all, at the Temple of the Ancients and the Forbidden City. I don't think that makes much of a difference on way or another, tho'.
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