Why so many women?

[Rye]

I can see some references to ancient myths and legends... not really religion though...

Umm... Minotaur was in an ancient story about an man who killed the monster (minotuar) with his wits and bare-hands. Every something years 7 men and 7 women were sacrificed to this minotuar (a half bull, half man). The man chose to be put in minotaur's chamber to kill him and save future people.

Pheonix: A pure of heart giant bird in egyption mythology. He went to a river to be die and to be reborn.

Umm... I kinda forgot the rest *sigh*

[Besimudo]

Well it is Easter break soon, so if i feel compelled to cite and reference an essay i will.

I thought the idea here (forums)was to throw ideas around, not to sit down and actually research to produce an extended explorative on the topics.

Oh I consider ancient myths to be religion.
To the Greeks and the Vikings, their myths were just as important as our Christian myths are today. Try not to separate religion and myth, else you end up with those "literal creationists" who try to marry science and myth. For example.... "evidence found to prove the tower of Babel".... This is idiocy because the biblical accounts are mythical just like the Greek.

The thing is that as Christianity expanded it consumed much of the ancient European myth into its very own matrix. Even Easter is a pagan myth to feed the fertility goddess. Christmas as we know it is very Teutonic, the whole "Christmas tree" tradition is reminiscent of tree worship by the Swedish and Danish Vikings... The Germans simply decorated these trees with "Christian symbols" to assimilate the old with the new.

(I could go on all day), the way I like to keep my posts is to express an idea (or multiple in some cases) and then everyone else has a smorgasbord offering their own crazy insights into the game.

Oh finally, the religious implications in FF8 are suggested, they are not literal like in FF10. This makes them so much more profound, it’s a bit like reading the myth of the tower of Babel…this doesn’t seem that religious at first but if we analyse it we see a reflection of the apple in Eden, where knowledge destroys mans relationship with god… for this man is (once again) punished. These are the kind of insights FF8 presents and quite simply one not versed in ancient texts will miss them.

What can I suggest… read up on some ancient Greek and Viking religion, then replay FF8…you will then see its brilliance and it will save me from having to explain every little reference.

Kali…for some one with the Hindu destructive cycle (Kali) as their alias on the forum, you should be presenting some crazy insights of your own. Clearly my posts are not very coherent, but I write them at home very late at night, when I am able to connect with the muses. Normal deductive thinking is not the realm of insight.

[Rye]

Oh I consider ancient myths to be religion. To the Greeks and the Vikings, their myths were just as important as our Christian myths are today.

You really have a point there! ^.^ It's like our Noah and the Ark Myths!

[Besimudo]

FF games have always been composed of many elements... To me they are the most modern medium of myth. Do not for a moment think that the creators were inventing all the names like "Excalibur" or "Phoenix down" (the most literal references) The downside of course with video games to novels is that they are very hard to reference.

[PhoenixAsh]

Now Besimudo, I'm sure most of us now know how much you like to reference something or other whether relevant or not, and sometimes it is very educational and insightful. But if the player needs to have memorised ancient texts to appreciate a reference in the game, it's probably not all that relevant.
Noone's denying your right to fill pages with things most people aren't going to understand, but I still think you could make the actual point of this thread a lot clearer. From what I see it has, and never really had anything to do with the amount of women, and NOONE has actually stated what religious references are being discussed.

[Besimudo]

Well consider the roles women play in the game, and then as I have link them to something relevant.. i.e. Laguna and squall in the case of the initial post.

You could discuss, the storng role women have in the world (edea, Edel) even the capain (Xu) is a women. And Quistis a women...women seem to play very strong roles both politically and in the military.

Or you may wish to flourish on Laguans and women os Squall as I have done. Even the relationship between Rinoa and Squall relies on Laguans failure in the past...and the fact that Julia died (as all Lagunas women seem to do. hehehe that another point) made rinoa resent her father and establish the Owls faction group (oh look here another woman reference to power)...so clearly in 1 minute I have shown the consistency of the power women have in ff8. The designers were really saying something profound here, but in the usuall ff8 style it impresses the sub-conscious intellect and doesnt literally say .... Women are important in this game...We identify it via reflection. I wish more FF games worked on this level when presenting themes.

[kali]

Besimudo---no one is saying that your ideas are invalid...the point I (and Phoenix) was trying to make is that you randomly express many different ideas without making your over-all point clear.

First you talk about women in ff8, then you compare all the women in the series, them you compare FF8 to Odyssey, then you talk about religion and blah blah blah

1)--You are making very extravangant claims but offer no evidence to prove them

2) ---You write as if it's your Diary and not a thread to be read by many.....You simply randomly express many ideas that are disconnected...

Besimudo's post: I thought the idea here (forums)was to throw ideas around, not to sit down and actually research to produce an extended explorative on the topics.


I think throwing ideas around is good and of course no one expects you to do any exhausted research....BUT if you are going to throw ideas around can you at least throw each different idea in a specific thread..

That way i + others can actually respond to your ideas instead of writing a loooooong post on your communication skills....lol

btw--you could have easily open the thread with your last post ...cuz that one was actually clear....and i do agree
with you that the women of ff8 are depicted as strong, independent and powerful

[Dazlar Bynon]

Originally posted by kali
1)--You are making very extravangant claims but offer no evidence to prove them

2) ---You write as if it's your Diary and not a thread to be read by many.....You simply randomly express many ideas that are disconnected...

1. You don't need evidence, well suported theories will do as well, there is just a bigger chance someone disagrees, but that's OK (it's still a forum).

2. I would not use the word diary, but journal instead. In a diary you write from day to day what happened, while in a journal you write whenever something happens, your thoughts/theories and other stuff future generations might take wisdom from in a way they see fit.

It's not that I disagree with you, on the contrary, but I just wanted to make this clear. That reminds me that I still haven't started my own journal...

[PhoenixAsh]

Well supported theories do require EVIDENCE to support them. I'm still waiting for any specific religious or mythical references in the game that don't appear in others.
I agree that the strong women theme would have been a good start for a thread, though I'm not sure where it would go. Looking at it from the vague sort of view that seems to be popular nowadays you could analyse the way the most helpless female (Rinoa) evolves into the most powerful women in time.

[Dazlar Bynon]

Example: There is no proof that Laguna is Squall's father, but this theory is supported by facts whitch still leave some room for discussion.

There is no actual proof - the facts do not speak one way, someone may come up with a theory stating the opposite using the same facts - It's a theoretical possibility, unlikely in this example but not impossible.

This is basically what I mean...

[Lexy]

Dear god, let the kid write...

Anyway, I just think it's great to see something other than "wHo iS CuTeSt?!" for once...hahah..jk, I guess it's not that bad.....

But, I agree with the whole religious influences thing. Some ppl think that the only type of references in a game are blatant ones like the names of characters/items etc....
I'm very much into religion/mythology (I'm a religious studies major) and I enjoy trying to apply deeper meaning to the games I like...although I don't take it THAT seriously, cos video games...I don't consider them a very valid medium for religious insight....well, atleast I haven't seen anyone pull it off yet.

[PhoenixAsh]

Lexy quote:
"But, I agree with the whole religious influences thing. Some ppl think that the only type of references in a game are blatant ones like the names of characters/items etc...."

That's because still noone has answered the question of what references you're talking about.


Laguna being Squall's dad is pretty much fact, there is room for theories, but it's slim. Anyway, it still has evidence to support it.

[Rye]

Laguna being Squall's dad is pretty much fact, there is room for theories, but it's slim. Anyway, it still has evidence to support it.

Yeah, Like Raine's last name is Leonhart ^.^

[Dazlar Bynon]

Originally posted by RikkuYuna89
Yeah, Like Raine's last name is Leonhart ^.^

Where did you find that? I didn't know that. If that's true there's indeed true evidence, because in the end movie Raine's grave says 'Raine Loire'.

It would mean that Squall got Raine's last name, Raine married laguna and there was never anyone else for her, all pieces will come together once you let me know where the in-game info can be found!

I must correct myself as well:
Supported theories can count as evidence, but facts are more accurate. The meaning of every word is not always understood fully by everyone (not even by me), or you place words in a different order, or you use a word with a slightly different meaning whitch alters the meaning of the sentence.

It seems that a number of you try to prove me wrong, I don't blame you, I just don't always find the right words, or I think I do and I don't. Try to see what I mean, please, or things may turn into endless discussions without any meaning what so ever!

[Rye]

1. It's on all the shrines of Squall and Rinoa

2. It's common sense! If Laguna and Raine are his parents and his last name isn't Loire and his last name is Leonhart, Raine's has to be Leonhart.