He DID got to the Reunion - that's why he wasn't there later.
He DID got to the Reunion - that's why he wasn't there later.
[The death of God left the angels in a strange position]
Yes.
People like Aeris and Zack die of realistic causes because battle logic simply does not carry over into cutscenes. That's why Tidus in FFX can run down a walkway fighting soldiers and getting sprayed in the face with bullets without a scratch to show for it, then be stopped in his tracks as the scene enters a cutscene and guns are held to his face.
Cloud didn't die when he was stabbed with Masamune because that whole scene was set up to demonstrate how incredibly stronger Cloud is than Sephiroth. Plus, he's The Hero™.
How do you figure Zack is so much stronger than Cloud? Sephiroth beat him badly, and the only reason he wasn't out of it like Cloud during the trip to Midgar was because the Jenova cells didn't have any effect on him. You could argue that they had no effect because Zack is so strong, but then why did Sephiroth, who was affected, beat him like he did?
Furthermore, Cloud wasn't running on adrenaline, at least not entirely. We went through most of the game thinking of Sephiroth as some unbeatable god, and that flashback served to finally make the revelation that Sephiroth was in fact a wimp compared to Cloud.
Well, given that Zack was liberally riddled with bullets in the abdomen, whilst Cloud was stabbed in the shoulder ... Wolfwood, what *are* you on about?
[The death of God left the angels in a strange position]
HOW DID THIS THREAD GET THIS FAR?!
When you think about it...does it realy matter? NO! It is not that important! I respect all of your interests and discusions about this game but REALLY THINK about what you are debating about!
Something. Not someone. Something.
[The death of God left the angels in a strange position]
I give this discussion an "A" for members randomly pulling points out of their asses and making it look like steak dinner. Good job Kish, Wolfwood, and everyone else involved.
My two cents is that in theory, the man in the pipe could be one of the men in black cloaks in Nibelheim. Cloud doesn't read ALL of their numbers, so one of them could very well be #1.
This ends NOW. ...I said, as if I had any authority on the subject whatsoever
I wouldn't say he "easily" did anything. After being thrown back about 50 feet into the ceiling, which he bounced off, he can barely speak to Cloud.Originally posted by Nicholas D. Wolfwood
once again, Zack isn't any ordinary human. He easily survived a hit from sephiroth,
If by "obviously" you mean "its conceivable, sort of" then yes, its quite obvious. At no point does it say he was, in fact, injected with Jenova cells. Hojo did something to him, but it never even mentions Jenova. In fact, if you just decide not to go into his room, he'll never do anything involving the Reunion or anything else for that matter. He'll just lay there sleepin' away.Originally posted by Nicholas D. Wolfwood
Vinnie obviously has Jenova cells in him.
When do any of the other Jenova infectees turn into crazy monsters? I didn't see any clones, or SOLDIERs, or anyone do that. Well, Hojo turned into something, but it was more of a mutation(I don't think he would've turned back after melding with those two monsters, which is the only time he transformed in the first place).A helluva lot, too. That's what triggers his limit break transformations.
I'm gonna go with "he doesn't age because Hojo injected him with God knows what".And if he just sat there "sleeping" in a coffin for all of Sephiroth's lifetime, but doesn't look like an old man, it's obvious that he was either dead, or constantly reconstructed by the jenova cells in him.
Vincent was shot ONCE, by a PISTOL. Zack was shot over in over in the torso(or maybe even the head) by a machine gun, at point blank range.If they can keep that guy unchanged for that long, they sure as hell can reconstruct Zack after he's taken several bullets damage.
He must be so damaged that his own girlfriend doesn't recognize him. Wow.Remember, he hasn't completely recovered when you see him.
The group mentions Sephiroth, who Vincent knows is the son of Hojo. You know, Hojo. The guy who injected Vincent's love with Jenova, completely destroyed her body, then shot Vincent and turned him into a freak.he's still got a very similar syndrome to that which cloud had after the mako poisoning. That could be due to the intense amount of jenova activity in his body trying to repair him, which likely could have been going on within Cloud when he got "mako poisoning". As for Vincent not being called to the reunion, he WAS called. When Cloud first tells him their whole story with sephiroth, vincent just wants to go back to sleep, and says something along the lines of "more nightmares will come to me now". And according to him, he deserves the nightmares. But when they leave the basement, he just goes and joins them without gathering any information further than what they'd already told him. His motives for changing his mind weren't made clear, at least not that I remember. So it's quite possible that the Jenova cells in him subconsciously made him join them.
This isn't revelant to the issue, but I'd just like to say that was fuggin' hilarious.Originally posted by Nemesis the Warlock
and the bloke in the pipe definitely has a head. Barrett would have pointed it out otherwise.
But anyway, yes, I guess we could assume the man is Zack...if Zack became a Jenova clone somehow, and his face was drastically altered through the apparent super healing powers the Jenova cells gave him and none of the other clones, and they decided to let him live but give his living existence no relevance to any of the entire game beyond that. So, yes, Zack may be the man in the pipe. Cloud could also secretly be Sephiroth's half-brother. Except it wouldn't be relevant to the plot in any way at all(Considering its never brought up, much like this Zack theory), so its NOT LIKELY.
Last edited by Dr. Disco; 05-18-2002 at 04:14 AM.
Perhaps more to the point, if Sephiroth, who had the most Jenova in him of all, needed five years in the mako-crystals of North Crater to rebuild his body - and *still* hadn't finished his legs even then - after falling into the Nibelheim pit, then how come Zack - theoretically assuming he was the man in the pipe, like hell - could rebuild himself so quickly and so well, and yet not get recognised by Aeris?
[The death of God left the angels in a strange position]
Disco, I laughed out loud at the Barret comment too. I don't usually laugh at stuff on the internet.
Great, now I'm going to be late
Considering this was five years later, and the Jenova cells had no effect on him anyway, yup, I guess you got me there.Originally posted by Nicholas D. Wolfwood
It sure seemed easy enough for him to bust out of the jenova tube and kill the scientist guy, then drag cloud out, didn't it?
I'm no pediatrician, but WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? You can still get Vincent on Disc 3.It's obvious because Hojo said he "brought him back", in that letter he left, and because we all know that Hojo is totally and utterly obsessed with Jenova research. As for Vincent in the reunion, it's possible that the Jenova made him move in his sleep toward the northern crater, and your party never sees him.
1)The Jenova cells didn't turn into random horror movie monsters, they turned into Jenova monsters. Their actual genetics didn't change, it was more like they grew into the Jenova battles. Oh, and I believe Jenova Synthesis was the real Jenova.Hojo was one, the Jenova arms were others. The ones that become Jenova birth, Jenova life, Jenova death, and Jenova Synthesis. Therefore, we can say that it must take a lot of Jenova cells to turn into a monster.
2)Combining with those other two monsters is what got Hojo on his way to mutation.
You know what they say about assuming!And "god knows what" can be assumed as Jenova.
Could you tell me, exactly, where it says Vincent actually died? Here's a little help to get you on your way:IT DOESN'T.Vincent was DEAD though. Jenova brought him back to life, restoring what was damaged by that one bullet. And like I said, Zack wasn't completely recovered. He took a lot more wounds, so it took a lot longer to heal.
Blah.Yes, actually. I further explained that earlier in the topic, go read it.
That's fair, but keep in mind Hojo still destroyed Lucrecia's life. That would be enough incentive to join Cloud and go after him.Vincent doesn't know Hojo is Sephiroth's daddie till the end of the second disc. Take him with you when you raid the SHINRA building, you'll see what I mean when you fight Hojo. Vincent was asleep suffering Nightmares because he thought HE himself was Sephiroth's father, and was feeling guilt for having his own son become some genetics experiment. And even if you were right, it doesn't change the fact that Vincent makes up his mind when you first talk to him, then changes it when you leave.
Its possible in the sense that Barret is really the Lord Jesus Christ that got lost in a dimensional warp to go fight the ShinRa in Final Fantasy VII. It doesn't say it in the game, and you never know, but it'd be pretty stupid if he was.You really haven't paid attention, have you? I said it plenty of times, I'll say it again. I'm not here saying that he IS. I'm saying that it's possible. That there's no proof saying he isn't. I know it holds no relevance to the plot, and only would come in handy for fanfic ops, but it's possible.
It DOESN'T say "brought him back"; it says "scientifically altered him and put him to sleep." Now, I suspect it may say scientifically in one version and genetically in another, but nowhere in the Hojo's letter does he refer to bringing Vincent back from anywhere.
[The death of God left the angels in a strange position]
Watch the scene in the Whirlwind Maze again, the one in which all the Jenova-riddled cloaked men are marching toward the site of the Reunion. Sephiroth (in appearance, at least) eventually encounters them, and then what does he do? He slaughters them, all of them. I somehow don't see Vincent walking back from that.Originally posted by Nicholas D. Wolfwood
Yeah, I know. If he can walk to the reunion, he can wake up and walk back, ya know.
I was like 10 minutes late for school. Ouch.
Umm, I'm pretty sure they spent five years in the ShinRa Mansion. I mean, it might've taken a kind of long while to get to Nibelheim from there, but it can't have been that long, since they even hitched a ride at least once.Originally posted by Nicholas D. Wolfwood
no, it wasn't five years later. Do you think they instantaneously teleported to midgar from nibelheim? No, it took them awhile to get there. And in any case, he still survived.
I mean, hell, FFVII itself doesn't happen over a course of years, and your party goes from end to end of the globe, several times.
What kishi said.Yeah, I know. If he can walk to the reunion, he can wake up and walk back, ya know.
Actually, they did. Same tentacle-ish structures sprouting from the shoulders, same fat bottom-half, same breasts.they still grew. And none of them looked like the Jenova that you see in shinra, or at nibelheim.
What lungy said.I'm pretty sure that in the letter hojo leaves, he says that he "brought him back". Back from what? Mexico?
A woman made entirely out of pie?Agreed.
True, but he still hated Hojo.But vincent didn't blame hojo. He blamed himself. That's why he was sleeping. If he wanted to kill hojo, he could have done that right when hojo finished the job on him.
Not just a long shot, a really big fuggin' long shot.It's a long shot, but could make sense. That's all I'm saying. Once again, defending the theory for fanfic purposes.
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