Opinions on Seifer(Spoilers)

[MJN SEIFER]

Quistis & Seifer?

[Tifa_Lockheart]

Seifer is a god. Plain, simple, direct and to the point.:mog:

[Mr. Graves]

Seifer was a bully who was big-headed. That's why he thought he would become a SeeD no matter what he did wrong, because he was too proud and full of himself to follow Garden procedure. He still has a thing for Rinoa so he gets mad at himself and tries to impress her, but he ends up shifting this priorities towards gaining power, because he is really a 'lost, little boy'. Which ended up being his downfall.

[Tifa_Lockheart]

Right. Lets have this out right here right now.

Seifer Almasy, born December 18th (I dont know what year though!!!), is the kind of man that is too complex and too understated to understand fully. As is Squall.

Yes, he went out with Rinoa. But do not let your mind decieve you. If you remember, the reason why Squall and Rinoa met, is because Rinoa had asked Seifer to introduce her to Cid, so she could obtain the help of SeeD. Yes, I do agree that Seifer is a cocky, yet arrogant b*****d, but he is also a loyal and respected member of his garden. You dont piss off Seifer and get away with it.
His friends, Raijin and Fujin are committed to the DC as is Seifer. Though Seifer wanted to show the world his 'ROMANTIC DREAM' (!!) and be the sorceress knight.

---Newsflash--- Seifer knew what he wanted from an early age, and he set out to do just that. Anybody see Squall doing the same? OK maybe so (the reason being Ellone). Speaking of Ellone, wasnt it Squall who was the selfish one, wanting 'Sis', and not giving any of the others time to grieve her dissapearance as much as he did, making him detracted from the outside world, a recluse and a loner.
Maybe Seifer missed Ellone too. Giving him a reason to pick on Zell so much. Distracting his own mind maybe? Im sorry Zell fans, but he did ask for some of the one liners that Mr. Almasy dished out from time to time.

I do not think that Seifer Almasy was at all much the evil young man that people describe him as. I percieve Almasy as perhaps the most honest member of the Final Fantasy VIII game. Maybe too honest.

After all, wasn't that Seifer who smiled up at balamb garden after Ultimecia's defeat???

I leave it in your hands....

Tifa aka Stephy x :mog:

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by Tifa_Lockheart
Right. Lets have this out right here right now.

Seifer Almasy, born December 18th (I dont know what year though!!!), is the kind of man that is too complex and too understated to understand fully. As is Squall.

Yes, he went out with Rinoa. But do not let your mind decieve you. If you remember, the reason why Squall and Rinoa met, is because Rinoa had asked Seifer to introduce her to Cid, so she could obtain the help of SeeD. Yes, I do agree that Seifer is a cocky, yet arrogant b*****d, but he is also a loyal and respected member of his garden. You dont piss off Seifer and get away with it.

Hmm... disagree with the 'loyal and respected' thing. Seifer was NOT loyal to anyone except himself and his posse, and Rinoa before hs joined the Sorceress. If you remember he had no problem injuring fellow GARDEN students/SeeD to help his girlfriend. And respected? Cid seems to like him, but if Quistis and Xu are anything to measure about, he's the least respected student. 'Calling yourself a capitain is a joke Seifer'

Seifer has his qualities. Loyalty to GARDEN and respect of the other members are not among them

His friends, Raijin and Fujin are committed to the DC as is Seifer. Though Seifer wanted to show the world his 'ROMANTIC DREAM' (!!) and be the sorceress knight.

As I see it, Rajin and Fujin are commited to Seifer, and Seifer is commited to himself. Seifer's concerns seem more with annoying people he doesn't like (see, Zell in the cafeteria in the beginning) then actual discipline. After all, Seifer severely lacks discipline as well.

---Newsflash--- Seifer knew what he wanted from an early age, and he set out to do just that. Anybody see Squall doing the same? OK maybe so (the reason being Ellone). Speaking of Ellone, wasnt it Squall who was the selfish one, wanting 'Sis', and not giving any of the others time to grieve her dissapearance as much as he did, making him detracted from the outside world, a recluse and a loner.

If Seifer wanted to be a Knight, why would he be training for SeeD? They're supposed to KILL Sorceresses. And regarding Squall's grieving regarding Ellone's dissappearance. Ellone WAS closest to Squall. In fact, I've never even heard mention that anyone but Squall cared about Ellone. (Edea is another matter. When, after Edea's defeat, Squall takes off with Rinoa, no caring about the whole Ultimecia business, he IS selfish, and apoligises for that. Squall's detraction is mostly out of fear. He chose it himself.)

[uote] Maybe Seifer missed Ellone too. Giving him a reason to pick on Zell so much. Distracting his own mind maybe? Im sorry Zell fans, but he did ask for some of the one liners that Mr. Almasy dished out from time to time.

As said before, Ellone IS 'as good as' Squall's sister. She WOULD give special care for him. Seifer has no reason to miss her in particular.

No he did not. Zell is rather sensitive. I was Seifer's express purpose to hurt him for his own fun. No excuses for the Knight on that account.

I do not think that Seifer Almasy was at all much the evil young man that people describe him as. I percieve Almasy as perhaps the most honest member of the Final Fantasy VIII game. Maybe too honest.

Evil...nah. He WAS under influence. But he WAS verbally cruel, egocentric, arrogant and overly impulsive. But yes, I guess he WAS honest, and loyal to friends. However, I wouldn't want to live with him. He WAS an interesting character though.

After all, wasn't that Seifer who smiled up at balamb garden after Ultimecia's defeat???

True. Of course, it was a rather sad smile. Perhaps one can say that Squall almost lost what he could have (love) had because he wanted to protect what he had (security of not being hurt) while Seifer almost lost what he had (his posse) and partly DID lose it (GARDEN) chasing dreams...

[MagicKnight Locke]

whats with all of this quistis-seifer stuff.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Eh... Squall shacks up with Rinoa, Selphie with Irvine, and Zell with the pig tailed girl (from the library, not Ranma), so I gues sthose two end up alone. And Seifer was the ex of Rinoa, Quistis wanted something with Squall so... Also, Quistis seemed rather easily hurt by Seifer's remarks (then again, also by Squall's remarks) and well... many people seem to think they should be together. Me I don't know. Seifer is more of a Rinoa person. (as I see Squall as more of a Quistis person) but Square has decided differently.

[Tifa_Lockheart]

OK. Like me, you have made some really valid points, but I guess the Seifer argument will always go on, regardless of whether you are a fan or not.

By 'loyal and respected', what I neglected to mention is that Seifer IS loyal to his friends, he may have a complex that makes him look as if he really didnt give a ****. You must remember Raijin and Fujin telling him he had lost it? Well, if Seifer is that much of a bastard (pardon the french) surely he would have killed them where they stood? I think in his mind, he thought he was far better than them, he had achieved his dream of becoming the sorceress' knight, and had his 'job' to do. Possessed or not (did i spell that right?) he wanted to become the 'knight ever since childhood, he has been loyal to that dream.
Respected he was. Not only by Fujin and Raijin, but by Squall and co. To pass such a remark that Quistis did about being captain, and whatnot proves not only did she have respect for him, it proves that she didnt like the way he was. The essential Seifer is a guy who wants to be a leader, yet goes the wrong way about it.
Seifer also holds respect for Squall. Squall being the only other gunblade wielder to enlist in SeeD (and the only student to graduate becoming a SeeD using the gunblade as his choice of weapon) the point im trying to get to is they consider each other as rivals, therefore inevitably having to respect each other for that.

The remark about Seifer picking on Zell, and Zell asking for it half the time, was a 'joke' on part of Seifer. Havent you ever done something to someone because they (in the metaphor) asked for it? Its a part of the basic human nature. Instant dislike occurs ALL the time with people.

Ellone, I agree, is as close as a sister to Squall than anything. Yes, he has the right to mourn her disapearance (i bet its spelt wrong again!!!!!) but not hog her all the time. Quistis and co. must have been upset too.....

As for Zell, Seifer seemed to get on OK with everyone else at the orphanage, Squall and co. had learned to ignore the insults and such. Why didnt Zell do the same? They grew up, and Zell still takes offence to anything Seifer throws at him.

I dont think we will never fully understand the whole matter. Seifer Almasy, arrogant, cocky, unruly, passionate and i say again loyal man. Squall Leonhart, confused, loyal, uncaring and yet caring man. This is the reason why i love FF8 so much. It shows raw human emotion, and Seifer just happens to be my favorite character. But I guess its only a game, hey!!!

Much respect to you, I salute you!
Tifa aka Stephy :mog: :ctwalk:

[Rand Al'Tor]

Originally posted by Tifa_Lockheart


OK. Like me, you have made some really valid points, but I guess the Seifer argument will always go on, regardless of whether you are a fan or not.

Of course. The BEST arguments are the ones that go on. Heck, witha game THIS old, the ONLY arguments that have NOT been reached to a conclusion yet are the ones that probably never WILL be.

By 'loyal and respected', what I neglected to mention is that Seifer IS loyal to his friends, he may have a complex that makes him look as if he really didnt give a ****.

heh, being loyal doesn't exclude you from being a ****. But yeah, Seifer is loyal to his friends... to his DREAMS first though.

You must remember Raijin and Fujin telling him he had lost it? Well, if Seifer is that much of a bastard (pardon the french) surely he would have killed them where they stood? I think in his mind, he thought he was far better than them, he had achieved his dream of becoming the sorceress' knight, and had his 'job' to do. Possessed or not (did i spell that right?) he wanted to become the 'knight ever since childhood, he has been loyal to that dream.

And in being loyal to the dream, he betrayed the loyalty to his friends. He didn't kill them, but he did cast them away. (luckily for him they welcomed him back) Problem with loyalty is of course, that the more loyalties you have, the more they must betray each other. Seifer's loyalty is to his own dreams. That IS selfish in a way. The next one is to his friends, far less selfish. But for his first loyalty, he betrayed Garden and all his friends there (he agreed to blow up his home in order to keep living his dream. Loyal to his dream, but traitor to his home)

Of course, if you add sorcery to the mix, it changes stuff. In a way, I wish they had removed the whole 'under a spell' thing. Would make Seifer even more interesting as a villain and as a character. Because I LOVE Seifer as a character. In enjoment of his story, he has Kefka, Sephiroth, Kuja and Sin beat, hands down. He's a GREAT character, but I wouldn't wanna live with him.

Respected he was. Not only by Fujin and Raijin, but by Squall and co.

Squall.... yes... He was respected by Squall. And he was loved by Rinoa. And Quistis cared for him. Irvine and Selphie hardly knew him. And Zell... no. Xu however had NO respect for him. That dismissive gesture she made at him is clearly contempt.

To pass such a remark that Quistis did about being captain, and whatnot proves not only did she have respect for him, it proves that she didnt like the way he was. The essential Seifer is a guy who wants to be a leader, yet goes the wrong way about it.

The problem is that Quistis CARES for Seifer, but that makes her vulnerable, and Seifer hurt her there (of course SQUALL did so too) Respect? no. She considers both of them 'younger brothers (and perhaps more?) but I don't think respect is the right word for what Quistis had for Seifer.

Regardin the exam. Sorry, but Seifer earned EVERY SINGLE REMARK he got there, including the particularly harsh one from Xu. For his own glory and pleasure (he was BORED, remember) he ignored orders and risked the lives of himself, those under his command, innocent civilians and his fellow studens. He is totally irresponsible and egocentric, and, as things were then, not SeeD material, let alone SeeD leader material.

Note that Squall too shows his egocentric side. After all, he too, when he has to choose between the capitain's orders and Xu's orders and finds a loophole out fo duty, and pursues what HE cares about. Improvement of his gunblade skills, so he won't need anyone. At the start of the game, Squall and Seifer are BOTH pretty bad. It's just that Squall improves, while Seifer worsens.

Seifer also holds respect for Squall. Squall being the only other gunblade wielder to enlist in SeeD (and the only student to graduate becoming a SeeD using the gunblade as his choice of weapon) the point im trying to get to is they consider each other as rivals, therefore inevitably having to respect each other for that.

True. Undeniable true. There is a lot of respect between those two. I also note that Squall never actually said that he hated Seifer or anything like that, and if anything sounded more sad about having to fight him then anything else. But he'd NEVER try to avoid a fight, becaus ehe won't run away. The Squall/Seifer relationship is VERY interesting. (and of course fangirls have made yaoi fanfics. So I don't want to hear anyone complaining of me imagining stuff about Quistis and Selphie)

The remark about Seifer picking on Zell, and Zell asking for it half the time, was a 'joke' on part of Seifer. Havent you ever done something to someone because they (in the metaphor) asked for it? Its a part of the basic human nature. Instant dislike occurs ALL the time with people.

Dislike...okay... active pursuit in hurting someone... NO. Seifer KNOWS it's not a joke to Zell. If Zell's hurt is just a joke to him, that's just a 'black mark' more. And 'asking for it'... heh, step carefully there Some of us were 'asking for it' in high school. (don't worry, I'm over it) Someone eccentric and emotionably vulnberable is asking for hazing just as much as a cripple is asking to be pushed down the stairs. Just because it's EASY to hurt someone, doesn't mean you SHOULD. (also, once again, Squall does (and can) make himself guilty of that as well. but for him it's worse, because Zell respects and trusts Squall. But Squall's no angel.)

Ellone, I agree, is as close as a sister to Squall than anything. Yes, he has the right to mourn her disapearance (i bet its spelt wrong again!!!!!) but not hog her all the time. Quistis and co. must have been upset too.....

Well, if I'm good friends with someone AND his sister. And that person's sister just vanished, I'd DEFINATELY say that that person has the right to mourn all they want, and I wouldn't expect HIM to console ME. (especially not when he's like... 6 years old)

Also, I think you might have forgotten smething. WHen Ellone vanished there, she was probably about 13. So she'd be an orphan herself, not someone actually in charge of helping the kids. I'd imagine the other kids might have SOME attachement to her, but not THAT much.

As for Zell, Seifer seemed to get on OK with everyone else at the orphanage, Squall and co. had learned to ignore the insults and such. Why didnt Zell do the same? They grew up, and Zell still takes offence to anything Seifer throws at him.

Again, Zell is vulnerable. That's a reason NOT to hurl insults at someone. Though I wouldn't expect a 6 year old Seifer to understand that. Zell should have grown up a bit in that departement, but the same goes for Seifer. Lest he'll be a 'schoolyard bully' all his life.

I dont think we will never fully understand the whole matter. Seifer Almasy, arrogant, cocky, unruly, passionate and i say again loyal man. Squall Leonhart, confused, loyal, uncaring and yet caring man. This is the reason why i love FF8 so much. It shows raw human emotion, and Seifer just happens to be my favorite character. But I guess its only a game, hey!!!

Much respect to you, I salute you!
Tifa aka Stephy :mog: :ctwalk:

And much respect and salutes from this side. And I agree on the lauding of FFVIII. FFVII might have better plot, but when it comes to making real characters, that you feel could have walked straight from our world in a world of magic and warfare, and that you can love as if you've known them all your life, FFVIII takes the cake. Cloud and Sephiroth have amazing backstories, but they don't come to life NEARLY as much to me as Squall and Seifer. Seifer is a villain, no doubt about it (well, there IS the whole 'magic spell' thingy). He's cruel, selfish, thrill seeking, irresponsible, arrogant and merciless. He has tortured, he has murdered, he has betrayed. And yet he is completely human throughout it all. That is why it's not a 'bad' ending to see him fishing. Sephiroth wasn't human, literarely, he was almsot 'godlike' in his evilnes. But human evil is more interesting, because we know it in ourselves perhaps.

[Tifa_Lockheart]

There! Now I think we have found a medium to all our disagreements. Though calling Seifer a cruel heartless murderer is somewhat true, is also untrue. There was the matter of 'under the influence', but then again it was his dream to become that kind of man. Oh, jeez, my brain refuses to register the fact that Seifer WAS cruel and heartless after all, and I hate, absolutely HATE to admit im wrong. Does the term grabbing at anything mean anything to me? Yes, now it does. But I will not take the Seifer road and refuse to register the fact I am wrong. I shall nobly bow down (whilst muttering cuss words under my breath), and admit not total defeat, but just the kind of defeat that makes you realise that your hero wasnt made of heroic ingredients. But you have to agree (if for the sake of my own sanity) that Seifer was and is the most interesting game character in FF8. Im playing it again, and this time I will not shout at the screen 'chicken wuss' whenever Zell Dincht makes an appearance.
Theres something i've always wanted to know. Why didnt Seifer and Irvine never really communicate as kids? Could Irvine see right through him or something?
Something else, I dont much read yaoi fics. Hard to imagine Almasy and Leonhart going at it. No thank you!
Though I am a heterosexual female, it is a little easier on the mind when you think of 2 girls, rather than 2 guys (im sorry anybody reading this who is gay, but we all have our opinions), so Quiephie away to your hearts content!!

Much grovelling, saluting and greetings.
Tifa aka Stephy x:mog: