R=U? What are you people talking about?

[celtcknight]

ok then,

so if it were squalls trademark then it has a connection to the GF griever as a personal shot too squall?

I agree, havent seen Odin merchandise anywhere, nor gilgamesh, so why would their be griever. The simple fact that you can name Griever and Ultys GF is then griever says alot, that there is a corelation between those two incidents in time. Square wouldnt let you name the ring yourself, if they didnt want you to see the connection, whatever that connection may be, or you could name the ring and Ultys GF would be a differnet name. but no, you are naming Ultys GF and squalls ring.

Hell, I can name the ring "QQQQQQQ4" and Ulty will name it the same name. regardless to the electronics and software of the game, their is a connection. ultimecia had to hear from squalls mouth, such a unique name. If you say it could have happened after the game, square would have shown why, or otherwise left it all out. It is suppose to be simple and therefore not explained. Does it lead to R=U, maybe... or S=U

oh and dude, "no BIG D eal" not a product of your imagination? The quote is as flaunted in this thread as Squalls lion. Not saying its a bad thing, but some people like to be creative and have quotes and emblems symbolizing their character. You do, just like squall.

[Big D]

Rinoa hasn't heard of Griever? No problem. She's never heard of a lion before Squall mentions it, even though they're "known for their great strength and courage".

Hell, I can name the ring "QQQQQQQ4" and Ulty will name it the same name.

Of course. By naming Griever, the player is kind of filling in a bit of the game's history, like when you name a character. Once someone has a name, that's what everyone will call them. Imagine this scenario - someone who's never heard of Christianity encounters a person with a necklace depicting Jesus Christ.

A: "Who's that?"

B: "Jesus. I believe he was the saviour of humanity."

A dies and goes to heaven. Encounters Jesus.

"Who're you?"

"I'm Jesus Christ, the Son of God."

Clearly B's words didn't change anyone name or anything like that.

Incidentally... have you noticed that there's a Griever statuette on the muzzle of the Lion Heart gunblade? Any junk shop can build one of those, it's clearly not an unknown symbol.

[PhoenixAsh]

Interesting point about the Lionheart, unless it's pictured in the magazine, I can only argue that Squall could have been responsible for the addition.

The trouble with saying that Griever is an ancient GF, is the very reason I like the R=U theory. It requires a massive coincidence. The R=U theory is a way to explain a lot of coincidences that otherwise make very little sense, you can say that these things just happened, but why when one theory explains it?

[DocFrance]

Originally posted by Big D
A: "Who's that?"

B: "Jesus. I believe he was the saviour of humanity."

A dies and goes to heaven. Encounters Jesus.

"Who're you?"

"I'm Jesus Christ, the Son of God."

Ultimecia: I summon Jesus, the most powerful GF! Jesus, make them bleed!

[HanaKirei]

Originally posted by DocFrance
Ultimecia: I summon Jesus, the most powerful GF! Jesus, make them bleed!

...*crawls off into the corner to die laughing* XD

[Big D]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
Interesting point about the Lionheart, unless it's pictured in the magazine, I can only argue that Squall could have been responsible for the addition.

The trouble with saying that Griever is an ancient GF, is the very reason I like the R=U theory. It requires a massive coincidence.

Even if Griever is an ancient GF, it still doesn't eliminate the potential for an R=U connection. F'rinstance, R/U knows that Griever is "in Squall's mind, the most powerful GF" so she hunts it down and keeps it. It still works as R=U evidence, but it's not necessarily proof as such. It could be argued either way.

[celtcknight]

Originally posted by Big D
Even if Griever is an ancient GF, it still doesn't eliminate the potential for an R=U connection. F'rinstance, R/U knows that Griever is "in Squall's mind, the most powerful GF" so she hunts it down and keeps it. It still works as R=U evidence, but it's not necessarily proof as such. It could be argued either way.

Thats the point Im trying to make. Even the phrase "legendary GF" as said by Ultimecia doesnt have to exactly mean something as from the past, a myth...etc. It could also be a play on words. It might have helped to hear the sarcasm in Ultys voice. As if refering to squalls "stupid little lion," or the "legendary GF you created."

Even with the jesus scenario, my take on this is like Squall here inventing Jesus (the GF). Also this lion head emblem could also be what squall interprets as a coat of arms. Like William I of Egland, and his two yellow lions holding swords on a red field. The big qestion is how did squall obtain this ring...possibly its one of his first possesions.

Getting away from the ring deal, I have something to bring up as part of this R=U theory.

Does Rinoa acquire the Angel Wing after embodied by ultimecia or after being junctioned to Adel?

Because if r=u, Ulty can have no influence in rinoas powers. In other words, if ulty is rinoa, she can not acquire powers from her future self. Her future self would have had to acquire them from some other source, like Adel. So if she had angel wing only after being junctioned to Adel then the r=u would make sense but not if she acquired it from ulty.

This also raises the question, what happened to Edea and her powers. I can remember her wanting to go to Esther to speak with Odine and you get to have her in your party. You get there and edea seems to dissapear from the game for awhile. Does Odine succeeed and Edea is a normal person, are these powers passed to Rinoa somehow????

Comments?

Edit by Big D: Please use the edit/delete button to alter your posts, it's better than posting twice in a row.

[DocFrance]

Rinoa gets Angel Wing once she regains conciousness in Disc 3 - meaning she gets it after being posessed by Ultimecia. Still, there's nothing saying she can't gain her powers from herself, is there? We're dealing with time travel here - that sort of thing is pretty reasonable in that context. It's like going back in time and becoming your own grandfather - as twisted as that might seem.

[Big D]

Yep, Rinoa's Angel Wing comes to her after she regains consciousness - but remember, she was rendered unconscious when Edea's powers were embedded into her. We already know that they're the same powers that are possessed by Ultimecia, because Rinoa says "my powers will be passed on and eventually reach Ultimecia". [q=DocFrance]Still, there's nothing saying she can't gain her powers from herself, is there? We're dealing with time travel here - that sort of thing is pretty reasonable in that context. It's like going back in time and becoming your own grandfather - as twisted as that might seem.[/q] It's a little different. Edea held two sets of Sorceress powers - the set she gained as a five-year-old, when she first became a Sorceress, then the powers she got from Ultimecia before that Sorceress' death. However, Ultimecia's powers are the same ones Edea passed on via Rinoa, so really it's just a duplicate set of her own powers. A bit different to the grandfather paradox, in which information comes into existence without an ultimate origin.

The characters in the game know that Ultimecia's powers are the powers that once belonged to Rinoa and Edea (and Adel, since Rinoa gained her powers too); in that sense, a kind of "R=U" takes place.

[TasteyPies]

Originally posted by TheAbominatrix
For the last time, this is not a thread for you people to yell at eachother

Dont make her angry, you wouldnt like her when shes angry

[DocFrance]

Abominatrix is the love child of She-Hulk and Mr. Fantastic? Look at that neck stretch!

[celtcknight]

We have to take "back to the future" for instance here. If you go into the past and tamper with your own bloodline, you cant, because your tampering with your own existence. You cant go into your past and shoot yourself because... well obviously then you would never grow up, go back in time and shoot yourself. So its like Michael J Fox dissapearing after tampering with his parents relationship.

So powers should relate in the same way, ulty can use rinoa as a body to move but cannot give her powers. To begin the time loop, in order for ulty to exist as ulty she needs powers, so thats the question, where would ulty receive powers from. and then we can tie that to rinoa acquiring powers (outside any ulty influence)

Like saying ulty claimed powers from Adel and Edea head in that direction

(This is why I was reading the Ellone thread that was recently closed, to hear embodiment arguments - or debates, same thing... )

[eninen525]

just cuz back to the future felt that was how it should be doesnt mean square did

[DocFrance]

This whole debate is based too much on a bunch of loose "what-ifs" and hypothetical situations. Bleh.

[Big D]

Originally posted by DocFrance
This whole debate is based too much on a bunch of loose "what-ifs" and hypothetical situations. Bleh.

It's a true dilemma. If the game answers all the questions and doesn't leave us guessing, then we'll run it down for spoon-feeding us information and leaving nothing to our own creativity. There're fewer ideas to discuss in threads like these... but when there are unanswered questions, grown men start getting upset and defensive over inconsequential things