This is the biggest disappointment ever

[§håd0w]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
And Europe hehehe.

I agree characters weren't fleshed out. They actually were slightly less dimensional than the ones in FFVIII I thought. A couple were fairly decent, but most just made up numbers and fitted cliches.
Yuna on the other hand got a ridiculous amount of attention despite having no personality at all, and being a moron.

that is trout. us americans get nothing.

[Yunalesca]

Personally, I enjoyed FFX. The only let downs were Yuna and the story. If the story had more depth, it would've been great. Personally, I though Tidus was one of the best leading males I've seen in a while. He didn't act like the typical tough guy male, and was sensitive, and often had a reckless streak, which caused trouble. He was an open and fun person. I liked him. Yuna wasn't as a good, being the typical sweet naive kid. Lulu kicked ass, there aren't many cold hearted girls in FFX. Rikku was kinda like Yuffie, except she had more depth, having a soft, serious side too. Tye graphics were fresh, and there was a lot in the game. I only wish the story had more depth to it.

[Savannah]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
FFVII spoilers (SPOILER) Tifa wasn't the sweet girl next door. She was a tough girl who worked in a bar in the slums after having her friends and family killed and hometown destroyed.

Tifa was hardly tough. Despite being a good fighter, she's soft-hearted and sentimental, especially when it comes to Cloud. I didn't mean that she couldn't defend herself- all FF girls can do that. But she was the stereotypical sweet-childhood-friend-turned-love-interest, despite what may have happened to her loved ones, which really had nothing to do with her persona.

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh (SPOILER)Sephiroth wasn't a classic crazy villain, he was an innocent child, who was crushed and manipulated for his entire life. It's debatable whether he did anything wrong at all.

Lots of villains (FF villains especially) were originally good guys, or weren't really bad guys at heart. I don't personally believe in true evil and I think that even the bad guys think they're justified in what they're doing (most of the time), but Seph had the whole stereotypical I'm-going-to-kill-everyone-because-of-my-inner-turmoil thing going. Very similar to Seymour, one of the few FFX characters I thought were useless and unoriginal.

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh (SPOILER)Cloud was not a cliche brave,handsome warrior. He was an insane, confused, failure.

O_o? Did you play the same FF7 I did? Are you talking about the same Cloud that was always voted the leader within the group, the one that all the girls were after?

Lulu and Yuna, I thought, were the first really respectable girls. They had minds of their own, they were in authoritative positions, and they didn't need any of the men in the game to lead them around and provide answers.

Auron was more jaded and closed-off and focused on his goal than he was actually tough. He shouldered all the blame for what happened with Braska and Jecht, and was after redemption for that during his trip with Yuna. I think that his, Yuna's and Tidus's were the most personal of all the journeys of any of the characters.

I agree with Yunalesca that even Tidus wasn't a cliche main character, as much as I hated him. He was flashy and shallow and over-confident in the beginning, one of the few actually flawed main FF characteres.

*pant pant* x_x

[PhoenixAsh]

FFVII spoilers all through post

Tifa was hardly tough. Despite being a good fighter, she's soft-hearted and sentimental, especially when it comes to Cloud. I didn't mean that she couldn't defend herself- all FF girls can do that. But she was the stereotypical sweet-childhood-friend-turned-love-interest, despite what may have happened to her loved ones, which really had nothing to do with her persona.

(SPOILER) She was soft-hearted and sentimental, that doesn't make her weak. She shouldered Cloud's past, her own feelings, her competition from Aeris and probably many conflicting and hard feelings after she died, and the end of the world without ever getting any real comfort until very late in disc two. Being a childhood friend had nothing to do with her persona.
All FF girls can't defend themselves, even ones with weapons, Yuna has to summon giant monsters to protect her, otherwise she's basically useless at self defence (excluding magic and freaking with the sphere grid)

Lots of villains (FF villains especially) were originally good guys, or weren't really bad guys at heart. I don't personally believe in true evil and I think that even the bad guys think they're justified in what they're doing (most of the time), but Seph had the whole stereotypical I'm-going-to-kill-everyone-because-of-my-inner-turmoil thing going. Very similar to Seymour, one of the few FFX characters I thought were useless and unoriginal.

(SPOILER) No I meant literally it's debatable whether he can be blamed. As in whether it was him trying to destroy the world, killed Aeris, and etcetera.

O_o? Did you play the same FF7 I did? Are you talking about the same Cloud that was always voted the leader within the group, the one that all the girls were after?

(SPOILER) The same Cloud who had to hide his face on returning to his hometown because he was ashamed of being rejected as a SOLDIER, the one who believed he was someone else for a huge part of the game, the one who was weak to the point of nearly being made to kill Aeris until who was it? Tifa saved him?

Lulu and Yuna, I thought, were the first really respectable girls. They had minds of their own, they were in authoritative positions, and they didn't need any of the men in the game to lead them around and provide answers.

Lulu was great, but dumped very quickly.
Yuna didn't have a mind, let alone one of her own. She just repeated that she would defeat Sin, and never considered the consequeces of her actions. Her descisions could easily have resulted in the end of the world twice in the game if her guardians hadn't been around to save her.

[Savannah]

Ah... since you basically repeated your last post, I'm not gonna reply to that one. And this is a futile argument, since you can't convince me that Tifa isn't a useless thrown-in piece of airhead fanservice and I can't convince you that Yuna is justified in her emotions and actions. ^_^;v

[Big D]

Calm down, people, let's not make this personal.
Constructive criticism and informed debate is one thing, flaming is another entirely.

[Savannah]

That's why I declared it a futile debate and am backing out. O_o

[PhoenixAsh]

I didn't flame at all, I replied to specific points with hard facts from the games.

If I'd wanted to be personal I would have pointed out that Savannah hadn't actually got out of FFVII disc one when she had made the comments about Tifa. I simply gave facts about the game.

Though I agree entirely that flaming is pointless and debate is good. I had hoped Savannah was going to be one of the first people to actually defend Yuna with evidence from the game.