whos squall's dad?

[ShivaBlizzard8]

*agrees*
Although I must admit that when I first found out that Rinoa was Julia's daughter on disc two (when Kiros tells Laguna that Julia married Gen. Caraway), my first thought was "maybe Rinoa isn't really Caraway's daughter at all. . ." but I began to dismiss that thought as it became more apparant that Squall and Laguna were related. And time-wise, it makes sense that Caraway is Rinoa's father, even with Squall being younger. By the time Kiros tells Laguna, Julia and Caraway have already been married for some time. If their wedding night bonk was the one that produced Rinoa, she would already be a month or two along at least before news gets to Laguna, at which point he and Raine haven't even admitted their budding feelings for each other, not to mention getting around to some serious bumping.
Had Laguna been Rinoa's dad as of the night at the Galbadian hotel, Rinoa would be a lot older than Squall than just 5 months. Just the time spent between Raine finding him and Kiros' arrival is about 4-5 months already.

OOC: Speaking of The Trilogy, watching that first movie now is just kind of, well. . . sick.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Or you can read Baldur's Gate 1 Imoen/main character romances, before you find out she's a half-sister...

[PhoenixAsh]

If Kiros' arrival is 4-5 months after Julia that would fit perfectly.

D you assumed five months between Julia and Laguna arriving in Winhill, why? You also assumed they had sex immediately, why? The final six months I'm not entirely certain where you got that from either.

I don't believe it, I just don't see how it's disproven. The timelines seem to match as far as I can see, espescially given how short travel times are in the game, even if you scaled them up hundreds of times it still gives plenty of room.

[Big D]

Raine says that Laguna spent six months just recovering from his injuries.

Doesn't Kiros say he's been looking for Laguna for an entire year, too?

Kiros and Ward had quit the army, and Ward had changed to a completely different job. Those kinds of changes take a while.

Clearly, the better part of a year or more has passed between Laguna's friendly chat with Julia and his meeting with Raine.

Besides, Julia didn't even meet Caraway until she was absolutely certain that Laguna wasn't coming back. She was distraught, he consoled her, they eventually fell in love. Those things also take time. Caraway might;ve noticed if she was pregnant.
It's not like Julia just got bored and started playing around simply because Laguna had been gone for a few weeks.

[PhoenixAsh]

Recovering from injuries fully after six months would probably disprove it completely. As would Kiros searching for a year.
Job changes don't take long at all in FFVIII.

Clearly, the better part of a year or more has passed between Laguna's friendly chat with Julia and his meeting with Raine.

I have no idea where you got that from.


Julia met a guy in a bar and they either spent the night together, or had one fairly awkward conversation. There's no reason for her to wait that long, even if she didn't already know Laguna wasn't coming back.

[Big D]

*Sigh*

Here's the script, as reproduced at rpgamer...

Kiros

"You seem well."



Laguna

"Yeah...You, too."

"Hey, how long has it been? You know, our grand escape from Centra?"



Kiros

"That was...One would usually call that being chased out..."



Raine

"I thought so..."



Kiros

"Well, I would say about a year or so."



Laguna

"I was bed-ridden for over 6 months. It seemed like every bone in my body

was in pieces."



Raine

"I nursed him back to health."



Kiros

"Thank you, for taking good care of Laguna."

"I was able to recover in about a month or so. Ever since then...I've been

searching for you."



Laguna

"Why?"



Kiros

"After leaving the army...Well, just killing time I guess."

"Life's pretty boring without you as entertainment, my man."



Laguna

"That's a harsh thing to say. I've been living a productive life here."

I guess that's cleared up then...

Laguna

"How's Julia doing?"



Kiros

"I don't know..."



Raine

"You mean Julia, the singer?"



Kiros

"That's right."

"Laguna really admired her and always frequented the night club."



Laguna

"Shut up! So what if I did!"



Raine

"Julia used to sing at a night club?"



Kiros

"No, she didn't sing. She just played the piano."



Raine

"Then the first song she released was 'Eyes on Me'?"



Laguna

"H-How does the song go?"



Raine

"You don't know?"



Laguna

"Well, you never let me hear it!"



Raine

"I didn't think you listened to music."

"The song's about being in love...I really like it."



Kiros

"Heard she recently got married."



Raine

"Oh yeah!"

"To some army general, right? General Caraway or something?"



Kiros

"I'm not too sure."



Raine

"I read in a magazine that her true love went off to war and never came

back."

"General Caraway comforted her while she was feeling down. That's how they

got to know each other."



Kiros

"...So she didn't wait for the soldier to come back...?"



Laguna

"So what! Who cares!?"

"As long as she's happy, right? That's all that matters!"

...Which supports the notion that Julia is, as surmised, NOT a cheap floozy, and she actually did wait for Laguna.

Now, Raine obviously wasn't pregnant during the above-quoted scenes, even though a full year or more had passed since she and Laguna met. This, more than anything else, is proof that there is no way that Laguna could be the father of both children.

[TheAbominatrix]

You're arguing with a brick wall, D.

[Big D]

Yea, then verily I shall use the mighty hammer of quotations and the sledge of truth to smite forth upon such a wall, until it is rendered even unto the very dust and rubble from whence it camest.

...Actually, I think my latest evidence should be enough to convince even the most 'hardened' believer that Squall and Rinoa can't be related at all.

Not that it really matters, anyway. There are bigger things in life to worry about...

[PhoenixAsh]

Yup that's pretty concrete. As I said before that would prove it I'd appreciate it if you kept our personal differences at least to arguements you're in TheAbominatrix.

I know it's nice to think Julia and Laguna were in love and everything, but that's it. They met in a bar, talked for a night maybe, then didn't see each other again. Laguna's job was more important than seeing her, and she was married to someone else shortly after. Laguna following later.

Hearing about something a magazine stated about someone famous' love life is hardly evidence.

[Rand Al'Tor]

In a way the whole romantic mess adds an extra romantic aspect to the thing. Julia and Laguna never got together, but their son and daughter DID. Of course, neither Laguna nor Caraway could enjoy their love long though,

I would say that Laguna's crush was pretty serious though, and Julia clearly WAS pretty smitten with Laguna. She wrote the 'eye on me' song for him after all.

A random thought I had would be what Caraway's reaction would be at seeing Laguna

Caraway: Hey.. aren't you the guy my wife mourned for for a very long time. We all thought you had died.

Laguna: Oh, heh, no, close call.l

C: So... why didn't you come back. Julia was pretty sad you know.

L: Hey, I was seriously injured, Raine had to nurse me for 6 months.

C: riiiight... and you couldn't have asked Raine to get a message to Julia?

L: Euh... bad post service in Winhill

C: Hm... ah well, so why didn't you come back after those six months...

L: euh... I euh... protected the village to repay them for saving me...

C: .... and...?

L: And I kinda fell in love and married someone else.

C: .... Well at least you stayed with her...

L: Euh....

C: What euh?

L: I kinda went to Esthar to STOP STRANGLING ME! I HAD TO SAVE OUR DAUGHTER... well stephdaughter. Ellone

C: Oh... okay.... so afterwards you returned

L: Well... she died in childbirth of our son.

C: Oh, sorry to hear that. How is your son.

L: Just fine, there he is. Hey SQUALL!

S: me?

C: Huh? That's Squall? You are Squall's father? I heard he grew up in an orphanage! Together with an... Ellone?

S:... what's going on exactly

C: Apparently he's your father.

L: Hey look, this isn't what it looked like. After I saved Ellone I had promised to help overthrow Adel, and afterwards well... euh... Esthar is really far away and all...and I... euh... Ellone, honey... couuld you help Unle Laguna here?

C: You hold, I punch

S: Sounds good

Rinoa: Squally-pooh? Father? Why are you two kicking the crap out of the President of Esthar?

[PhoenixAsh]

ROFLMAO.

That's exactly my point. It's nice to think of Laguna and Julia being these torn apart lovers because of the Squall-Rinoa thing, but in reality where's the evidence?

[Rand Al'Tor]

That they loved each other? Well, Laguna was quite clearly smitten with Julia, and Julia DID make a song because she was pining away for him, so I assume there must have been SOMETHING brewing between them.

[PhoenixAsh]

Laguna had a crush on a cute piano player he'd never spoken to. Julia was a song writer who wrote a song about a soldier who was called away for duty. It's not exactly anything special.

[Rand Al'Tor]

Well they have spoken... once, and Julia DID mention that she had her eye on Laguna ("Did you ever know, that I had my eye on you?"). And Kiros DOES mention that Julia waited for Laguna quite a while, and Caraway got close to her as he was comforting her. The song is about Lagune I think. Laguna himself at least feels pretty referred to.

Raine

"I read in a magazine that her true love went off to war and never came

back."

"General Caraway comforted her while she was feeling down. That's how they got to know each other."



Kiros

"...So she didn't wait for the soldier to come back...?"



Laguna

"So what! Who cares!?"

"As long as she's happy, right? That's all that matters!"

Now, okay, magazines aren't great harbringers of truth. But we can at least agree I hope there was a budding relationship. Heck, if not for the mission they'd be together pretty soon I think.

Oh yeah, Julia also mentioned that it was because of Laguna she suddenly felt like she could actually sing, so I think we can safely say the first song is a lovesong for Laguna.

[PhoenixAsh]

Oh I know. Maybe there would have been love there. But in real life would you think that a soldier meeting a girl in a bar then leaving was this huge deal. Thinking people are attractive isn't a big deal, and it certainly doesn't mean love.
I'm just saying I don't think it was anything special the way the game showed it. I'm sure they were in love as it's a game and fate and etc. But that's the only reason.