Name change

[Besimudo]

While FF8 continues the Greek comedic tradition of other FF titles, many people consider it to be the outcast. This is not surprising; as what appears to be a superficial love story is actually an in-depth classical look into the higher (eternal) elements of the human condition. Many love FF7 which delt with modern economic and environmental pressures, it provided a mature facade of interesting characters. FF9 gave us a hint of Hans Christian Anderson, spiced up with Disney like characters. Finally FF10 delivered a rather disappointingly overt and shallow plot, which at best revived (perhaps trivialised) the mythical age.

The FF do there themes well, FF8 is considered by some analysts to be the only one with a "fully" esoteric game in the series. I understand that for many FF8 was inaccessible, and perhaps this is the main factor that defiles its FF reputation. I contend that FF8 may have been better served under a different name.. As games such as Vagrant story and Chrono cross which happen to be on the same level of classical learning as FF8 enjoyed their own status... whereas FF8 will alway remain in the "you either Love it, or you hate it" Basket.

Anyhow do you believe FF8 should be an FF title...?

[Wightraven]

There's no reason to argue the "shoulds", FFVIII IS a Final Fantasy and that's that.

By the by, I find it absolutley loverly that a person can correctly use words like "esoteric" and make reference to HCA and subtle or not-so-subtle allegories, but still screw up "their/there".

[Big D]

FFVIII has too much in common with the other FFs for it to be categorised as something different. It's a part of the style, the series.

Every game in the series has its detractors and its loyal fanbase. Those who love and those who hate. Changing the name just to suit a few would be pretty pointless; it was, however, done as a marketing ploy with the game known in the West as 'Final Fantasy Mythic Quest', if I remember correctly.

By the way, good point about the grammatical oddity, Wightraven.

[TheAbominatrix]

Mystic Quest, Big D. And excellent point, by the by.

[Besimudo]

Yes I find it “absolutley loverly” that people are more willing to criticise these days than contribute. It is amazing that our members can actively participate in lower criticism, yet when it come to higher everybody goes mute. I have an excuse for poor grammar; it is Bruce week at uni and I must admit that I am a seasoned alcohol...

Oh by the way Raven would you like to discuss modern Danish Literature in respect to the moral presuppositions?


I fostered the golden age of analysis along with Cyan and that Dutch guy....What has happened since?

As for Big D I ask why you cannot be Ar$ed in beginning a V.S. thread...?

[Wightraven]

Well, someone's found a bug up their bum. I shall tackle your questions/points as they arose, as I can't be arsed to quote you...

1. "Loverly" is not a typo, I intentionally used the word. See the song "Wouldn't it be Loverly?".

2. I DID contribute, though I kept my opinion succinct. You'll recognize it as the short blurb before my delight at grammar problems.

3. No I would not like to discuss modern Danish literature, as I do not read things written by Danes. Not out of prejudice, mind you, just out of simple lack of anything Danish to lay my eyes on.

4. Is this really the place to bring up off-topic questions to D? I believe this site features a PM system... oh wait, how ironic as this IS off-topic. *whistles innocently*

[Besimudo]

Oh, I see that you are an expert on broad way musicals.

The intention of this tread was to attract those members discontent with FF8, without succumbing to an FF7 Vs FF8 style flame session. The issues of FF8’s title have become the topic of many threads and although I concede that FF8 is similar to other FF in many structural elements, the game may have been appreciated on its own merits, had it another title.

[Big D]

Now now, children, play nicely or you'll get banned with no supper.

If FFVIII had another title, it'd just get more criticism for being a 'Final Fantasy clone'. Each of the games have their own mertis; some are simply more meritorious than others, and any assessment of those merits is entirely a matter of personal opinion. There are, after all, those who consider FFVI the apex of the series' development while others have no time for it at all.

Giving FFVIII another name could be seen by some as merely an attempt to distance it from its predecessors and successors - or them from it - by denying the nature and importance of the works that helped to shape it.

OOC:

As for the Vagrant Story idea... Wightraven is correct; PMs do exist for a reason. It's strange that you wrote your message in this thread rather than simply clicking the 'Reply' button at the bottom of the PM I originally sent you. I can't be bothered starting any threads on VS's religion since I already enjoy and appreciate it and all its myriad details. I'd happily contribute to a discussion, but I don't have any pressing questions to ask therefore I don't feel like starting a thread on it. Now, not another word on this matter in this thread.

[Wightraven]

No, I'm not an expert. I am a Jack of all trades; master of none.

Anywhoo, I just wrote up a near-four page essay on why I don't like FFVIII, but my ISP decided to crap out on me JUST when I hit the 'send' button, so now it's forever lost. I also decided that I don't feel like retyping it, as my various points have been made throughout this board.

Good day.

[BG-57]

To get back to the original question, I think it should be an FF title (besides the title of course). It includes many items/monsters/weapons featured throughout the FF series. The spells are recognizable from previous FF games. The summon monsters all have been in previous games in one form or another (except maybe Diablos and Eden).

My favorite example is the Ultima Weapon carries a weapon that is identical in appearance to Cloud Strife's Ultima Weapon from FFVII. Not similar, the same!

Wightraven, that happens to me sometimes. If I'm making a long post, I periodically copy the text. That way, I can paste it in later if I'm prevented from posting.

[TheAbominatrix]

VIII just didnt have the right feel for me... it was superficial and cold, the love story was a forced one, and a wrong one. Rinoa was veyr superficial, and most of the characters were so 2-d I wanted to scream. And I'm refering to their personalities. They were all stereotypical, and very few of them had any character development at all. They all more or less end the game the same people they were when it began. Time Compression was ridiculous, Ultimecia seemed kind of thrown in at the end there, and the whole thing didnt flow together like an FF should.

Does that mean there should be a name change? Not really. A great series is bound to have a fluke here and there, may as well get it over with. Square seems to have learned from it's mistakes.

[PhoenixAsh]

I loved FFVIII, and it is very much an FF. It differs in style slightly, that's about it. It is a shame that FF's name has become so focused on the battle system. I would love to try a real time game with the story, magic and monsters of FFs.


Besimudo:

The intention of this tread was to attract those members discontent with FF8, without succumbing to an FF7 Vs FF8 style flame session.

Besimudo you started most if not all of the recent occurances of this that I've seen.
I have asked you many times to justify your belief that FFVIII is somehow intellectually superior to the rest with out comparing it to something else and ignoring the games content, you have yet to attempt this ever.

[Zild]

I guess the question is, what makes a game "A FF title"? (Aside from the obvious answer of being called Final Fantasy Whatever... )

Personally, I think it has many of the same elements as 7,8,9 and 10... in particular, I believe it does have the scale - perhaps more so than others, at times...

I wonder if perhaps those who argue it shouldn't be an FF title only do so because they were disappointed with it? I must admit that I will now religiously buy every FF numbered title that gets released where I live, from now on... yet the only other Squaresoft game I've ever bought is Vagrant Story (perhaps that's unfair on the other titles; as an aside, there were many things about VS that I would love to see appear in a FF numbered game...)

Actually, that's just made me think... (how rare!) If you compare the FF numbered games to, for example, VS, what do you see?

Whilst VS had great gameplay, I feel it lacked the graphical quality, scale and length of the FF games. Even more, it just wasn't made crisp enough. The game itself was great, lovely (loverly) playability alone was enough for me - I remember seeing it advertised on TV (never seen FF advertised on TV...) and instantly promosied myself I would buy it...

So, basically scale, graphical quality (particularly long FMVs) and length, with a huge number of side-quests, makes a Final Fantasy game. Throw in some all-too-lengthy flashbacks that you have to play, and some chocobos (were there chocobos in 8?) and you have a FF game. Oh, and add a great cinematic-style opening too - which 8 easily wins one!

So Final Fantasy 8 is just that - Final Fantasy 8.

[Rand Al'Tor]

I fostered the golden age of analysis along with Cyan and that Dutch guy....

I don't know if you refer to me but *eyebrow twitches slightly* I'm Belgian. That would be like calling you a New-Zeelander.

aaaanyway.

Wouldn't say that FFVIII should be known as anything else then FFVIII. It fits nicely among all the others. (except it has no moogles. It should have moogles) Sure, there are more references to various mythologies in FFVIII then most others (as far as I know) Doesn't make it so much better then any other final fantasy that it should not be 'lumped in the same corner' Nor would I say that VIII is 'deeper' or 'more meaningful' then any of the others. Final Fantasy VIII is a Final Fantasy, worthy of the series, and the series is worthy of it. (is that proper English? Ah what the heck)

BTW Besimundo, if you REALLY want to get your 'analysis-groove' on, I can recommend Neon Genesis Evangelion. Be warned though it's a mindf.......*looks at Modertaors* a mind....twisting....thingy....

*cough*

that was all.

[Besimudo]

Yes I have seen the End of Evangelion... It amazes me how it required the Japanese to finally address Christian eschatology in a modern relevant manner. Evangelion like FF8 appeals to the classical themes, and it seems many modernists are unable to appreciate them.

I could not help but notice the “anti ff8” sentiment emerging in this thread.

If Squall is 2-D compared with Cloud; then explain why Squalls plot implications are metaphysical (classical god defying hero), while Clouds are material (mental break down, sinister cloning experiments). I think we can agree that FF7 draws from Metropolis and Frankenstein, whereas FF8 draws from The Odyssey. In FF7 themes have physical origins, Jenova (aliens) while in FF8 themes have mythical origins, sorceress (god)… Also the fact that FF7s themes are understood by more of the population is more than enough proof that FF8 is the “higher” of the two.