Why is this hated?

[TheAbominatrix]

Originally posted by Demandred
What isn't cliched these days? Skies of Arcadia is one of the most cliched RPG's ever, but many people consider it to be one of the best ever because of how it is executed. FFVII, FFVI, FFVIII, and FFX are all cliched, so to call FFIX cliched isn't really fair IMO because it's not like it is the only game out there that is cliched.

No, it isnt the most cliched game out there. And I really dont like cliched games. I've never played Skies of Arcadia, so I cant comment there. But if a game has other redeeming qualities, then I'll gladly play it. To me, VIII (Edit: Oops! I mean IX) had none.

And I really dont think character design has much to do with graphics. If the same exact character design had been used in, let's say, a PS2 game, it'd have wonderfully graphics of the big-headed characters of IX.

[PhoenixAsh]

Why do people say it's just graphics lovers and people who hate medievil styles that hate IX. From what I've seen it's usually only IX fans who even mention that stuff. "Ooh it returns to medievil it's great!" Who cares when it's set?

The reason I though IX failed to compete was the gameplay. It was beyond simplistic.
Not being able to decide character abilities is annoying, but forgivable. Not being able to have much control over their developement rate is annoying but forgivable.
Doing this and then not allowing the player to even choose which characters they use for a huge chunk of the game is annoying. Making it so that there is almost no freedom of where to go for a huge chunk of the game is annoying.
Adding Excalibur II to meant making bosses easy which is annoying. Having this make a perfect save impossible is annoying.
Making most mini-games be annoying and repetitive or have near to no rewards just left nothing redeemable in the gameplay aside from the chocobos.

It was play by numbers, and if the characters were better it might have been decent to just watch. The characters were by large annoying and underdeveloped so it didn't.

[Fiero Firestorm]

...

Someone obviously didn't look at the Ability System.

Oh, sure. You get two White Mage/Summoners. Big deal. They have specific summons and white magic the other can't cast. Oh, sure, the princess is the typical It's All My Fault person, but she doesn't stay that way for the ENTIRE game.

Oh, sure, the gameplay's simplistic. SO ARE ALL THE REST OF THE FINAL FANTASIES.

Oh, sure you can't choose which characters to take for two disks. That's not a "huge chunk of the game".

Making most mini-games be annoying and repetitive or have near to no rewards just left nothing redeemable in the gameplay aside from the chocobos.

The mini-games were actually kinda cool, and in the (SPOILER)Hourglass mini-game, nicely challenging.

You don't need a "perfect save", anyways. It's just a USELESS AND POINTLESS STATUS THING. YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO USE THE EXCALIBUR II.

[Cz]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
Why do people say it's just graphics lovers and people who hate medievil styles that hate IX. From what I've seen it's usually only IX fans who even mention that stuff. "Ooh it returns to medievil it's great!" Who cares when it's set?

We do. The point of Final Fantasy is to immerse you in a different world. If the game doesn't have atmosphere, there's no point in playing. It just so happens that Final Fantasy began as a medievil-style game, and it's nice to see that style return.

The reason I though IX failed to compete was the gameplay. It was beyond simplistic. Not being able to decide character abilities is annoying, but forgivable. Not being able to have much control over their developement rate is annoying but forgivable.
Doing this and then not allowing the player to even choose which characters they use for a huge chunk of the game is annoying. Making it so that there is almost no freedom of where to go for a huge chunk of the game is annoying.

I didn't think it was simplistic at all. Rather than pile mastered materia on to your characters, or junction 100 of the best spells to every stat, FFIX limited your options, which forced you to think tactically. Think about the journey to Burmecia, and the subsequent section in Cleyra. You had no proper healer, and so had to find another way to cope. Another plus point of this is that you can't zoom ahead in your characters development, allowing them to kill any boss they come across in a few hits.

Adding Excalibur II to meant making bosses easy which is annoying. Having this make a perfect save impossible is annoying.

That's low. Can you really criticize a game for having one little secret, that the majority of players aren't even going to find, and only causes a mild annoyance to you? As for the bosses, they weren't easy at all, unless you levelled up for a while. That's true for any Final Fantasy!

Making most mini-games be annoying and repetitive or have near to no rewards just left nothing redeemable in the gameplay aside from the chocobos.

The best equipment in the game was found by doing sidequests. The Chocobo mini-game gave you weapons like Ragnarok, Whale Whisker, and Ultima Weapon, as well as the Genji Equipment. The Stellazzio quest gave you the hammer, which could then be used to synthesize the Tin Armour. The card game, if you took time to learn the rules, was just fun in it's own right.

It was play by numbers, and if the characters were better it might have been decent to just watch. The characters were by large annoying and underdeveloped so it didn't.

I thought the characters were great. Although the game seemed to centre too much around a select few, that could be said about any FF game.

Well, I've said my piece.

[Wightraven]

Hmm... I've noticed Zidane's name popping up with some rather negative connotations here, and I'd like to defend him, as he's my fave FF main character.

Zidane was the first FF character I could REALLY relate to. He was a hopeless romantic and more testosterone-driven than the previous heroes of FF (Cloud who didn't seem to notice the ladies, and Squall who was "too cool" for them.), which endeared me to him in the first place. He never took anything seriously when he could help it, and always seemed to want to have fun with whatever curve-balls life threw him.

Yes, there was that one part where he got stuck in a mega-angst depression spot, causing him to try to alienate his friends, but real people do that, especially people as young as Zidane was supposed to be. He talked of his past bitterly and with sarcasm instead of casually and explanatorily like other FF main boys. He was caring, compassionate, but not so much that he was Disney-sweet. He seemed more like a REAL person.

I think you guys are overlooking and oversimplifying things, or perhaps I'm doing the opposite?

[Jackschitt]

Since when are Final fantay 9's graphic's cartoony, man if half the people who bash the game would shut up and actually play it they would understand.BY THE WAY ZIDANE ISNT A GODAMN MONKEY. Another thing the fact that the abilities cannot be changed doesnt minimize your choices there are more than 4 chars in the game , mix and match or train all of them.Lastly cause this is getting long, people have opinions and i understand that but what the hell is so cliche about ff9 PLEASE TELL ME.

[Demandred]

Originally posted by TheAbominatrix
No, it isnt the most cliched game out there. And I really dont like cliched games. I've never played Skies of Arcadia, so I cant comment there. But if a game has other redeeming qualities, then I'll gladly play it. To me, VIII (Edit: Oops! I mean IX) had none.

I wasn't criticizing you, I was simply saying it isn't fair to come out and call FFIX a big cliche, because it's pretty hard to find a game that isn't based around a giant cliche (aka: Save the world from the person who wants to become a godlike figure).

And I really dont think character design has much to do with graphics. If the same exact character design had been used in, let's say, a PS2 game, it'd have wonderfully graphics of the big-headed characters of IX.

Well I disagree here. Character design is what led the graphics to be what they are. At least that's my way of looking at it. I've also heard more than enough people say "FFIX suzx becuz it haz kiddzy grafics." Again, to each his own.

Why do people say it's just graphics lovers and people who hate medievil styles that hate IX. From what I've seen it's usually only IX fans who even mention that stuff.

Probably because there are just enough people out in the world who do say things like that, that we are forced to believing that is one reason why people dislike the game.

The reason I though IX failed to compete was the gameplay. It was beyond simplistic.

Like materia, the sphere grid, espers and junctioning are all complex. Materia and Junctioning are the two easiest systems to abuse in the history of RPG's. At least FFIX doesn't penalize you for leveling up like FFVIII does.

Not being able to decide character abilities is annoying, but forgivable. Not being able to have much control over their developement rate is annoying but forgivable. Doing this and then not allowing the player to even choose which characters they use for a huge chunk of the game is annoying. Making it so that there is almost no freedom of where to go for a huge chunk of the game is annoying.

To this I have to ask, when did you start playing the Final Fantasy series? In the earlier games of the series you set characters with a certain job and built them up, and in FFIV you had set job classes for the whole game, and what you learned in terms of magic was based on your level. FFVI even had each individual character set with basic attacks. I'm sure regardless of when you started playing the Final Fantasy series you know this, but my point is that, this isn't anything new in the series.

It's hardly fair to attack FFIX for being a linear game. FFIV,FFVI (minus the world of ruin),FFVII and FFVIII are all just as linear as FFIX.

and i understand that but what the hell is so cliche about ff9 PLEASE TELL ME.

*SPOILER*

Well the basis for the plot is leading a rebel movement against a power hungry queen, who is being manipulated by someone who ultimately is hoping to achieve God-like status.

That's pretty much the basis for every single RPG ever, at least console RPG's.

[TheAbominatrix]

Oh no worries, I know what you meant. But what I'm saying is, cliches are annoying for me, and if a game has no real redeeming qualities in my opinion, then it doesnt help. Cliches take points off whatever game I play.

And as for the graphics, I know what you're saying. It's just a difference in words, really. VIII had the same graphics, but the character designs werent kiddy. And I really didnt like the character designs myself, not because they were kiddy, I just dont like how out of proportion their heads were with their bodies. But character designs and graphics arent everything either. It's just that when there's enough minuses, it doesnt add up to a good game in my opinion.

But then again, I do like some seriously bad crap. Hehe.

[m4tt]

Originally posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi
People dislike FFIX because they're horrible idiots.

Final Fantasy 9 rules.

[Lord Xehanort]

Okay I just found out why Zidane has a tail. I still don't like it... but I know why it is there.

[Jackschitt]

What wasnt cliche about Kuja is the way he went about taking over the world and for one he wasnt going to go rule the world THATS the cliche bad guy in everything.Tell me this though how can you make a bad guy and not make him power hungry?

[Lenne]

Ok, that could maybe sound funny, but in my opinion it's better when there a hand of people who like FF9. I mean, there are a lot of fans, who just like it, because it's "cool" at the moment. FF9 deservs "real" fans who like the game because of its genial story, charas etc.

Games like FF8 or FF10 attracted the most people. Yes, I do like them, too but I think FF10 lost a lot because of that :grr: .

I love FF9 and its my favorit FF, so...

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay, I'll just answer stuff from memory.

The gameplay is simplistic. The systems of VII and VIII might have been easy to abuse, but that was because they rewarded players who knew the game. I know IX pretty well IMO, but getting anywhere is simply a task of repetition. Two discs with no character choices or real ability choices is a long time.

The mini-games. Stellazio hardly counts as a mini-game. Chocobo was good. Cards, Hippaul, skipping, Mognet, were all pretty long and pointless. I can't even remember the hourglass so it can't have been that special.

Linearity. Of recent games only X gave you less choice of what to do or where to go. VI was unbelievable with freedom. VII wasn't quite as free, but still a long way past IX. VIII was linear, but there was still a reasonable amount of choice, and the flexibility of the game countered this.

[Phil]

Originally posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi
People dislike FFIX because they're horrible idiots.

*shoots you* FF9 RULES. I like the fact that the game got back to the original basics, without the job classes. You have one mage, not 40, and each person has individual skills. Thats agreat charachter quality to me. Also, people who insult the charachter development of this game; i didnt see cloud develop very much, accept stopping his lying, and the only way tifa developed was in her...... nevermind.

[Kurohime]

You know, I would honestly love to see everyone who complains about things being "too cliche`" try to come up with something that isn't cliche` on their own.


In a nutshell:

Protagonist finds out something is wrong with the world. Protagonist finds friends who will help him fix said wrong thing in world. Protagonist learns some big moral in the end. (Bonus points if the protagonist falls in love. Even more if the protagonist and antagonist have a Jerry Springer appearance for their argument!!!1)

(end sarcasm)