I thought they determined that cloud wasn't a clone at all, but was induced with jenovas cell when cloud and zack where taken as prisoner in hojos lab...
I thought they determined that cloud wasn't a clone at all, but was induced with jenovas cell when cloud and zack where taken as prisoner in hojos lab...
--- Da Magic Is In The Sause
People injected with Jenova cells = 'Sephiroth clones'. Hojo wasn't trying to clone Sephiroth directly, but rather to reproduce the experiment's success.
[q=DaMagicSausage]now isn't their 2 sepheroths... (bad spelling i know) or prehaps a ohysycal projection of one that sepheroth is giving while he is incased in materia... i thought that one of the scientists (probibly hojo) said that the first speheroth clone was the only sucessful one, was created 5 years ago... and the real sepheroth was "killed." I think i confused myself. Anyway i had those two theorys...
1. sepheroth is making a projection of himself though the materia, or 2. the first clone that was created 5 years ago was the only one that lived... maybe he was clones at he full age of 30, so now the clone is 35...
[/q]There was no 'clone made five years ago', but that's when Hojo tried to turn Cloud into a 'clone' by inundating him with Jenova cells. As for the 'two sephiroths' argument... I agree with the idea that Cloud and co are chasing a 'psychic projection' during the game. Some people say they were actually pursuing Jenova in disguise, but that argument simply doesn't survive intense scrutiny.
Was there any explanation why the weapons weren't chasing janova like the planet programmed them to... i remember prof. gast syaing in his home movies that they were supposed to be the "weapons" against janova, not cloud or the citizens of the planet.
I can see why diamond weapon was going after midgar because hojo stated that he injected himself with jenova cells, but that gives no reason why ultima was blowing up every city he can find (other then the fact that cloud had janova cell injected as well when he attacked mindel). Only with the assumtion that there were SOLDIER members in every town in the planet (because they had been injected with janovas cells as well as showered with mako) can i see ultima attacking everything.
Why don't they just attack the center of the planet where sepheroth is hiding with that giant jenove mostrosity?
--- Da Magic Is In The Sause
Sephiroth was drawing on the Planets's power, shielding himself behind that impenetrable barrier. The Weapons consequently went after other perceived 'threats' - namely, Human population centres, particularly those with Mako reactors. The Weapons weren't created solely to defeat Jenova, but rather to fight against any threats to the life of the Planet.
So was hojo or vincent the father of sephiroth?
Hojo says he injected jenova cells into the womb of one of the babies, i always assumed it was sephiroth, but it just occured to me that he abducted ariths mother while she was pregnant... but she got away at the expense of her husband and already had the baby... so that does only leave sephiroth... nm
Man so maany question can be answered in this thread... just need to clear my mind to think em up.
--- Da Magic Is In The Sause
Hojo and Lucrecia are Sephiroth's parents.
Anyway. When Sephiroth appears to you the last time before you find his real body in the crater, he says something along the lines of "no longer needing this form" or something. Does it show hum... unpossessing a Clone at that point? Or does it simply fade out? I don't remember.
A Jenova form appears and there is no Sephiroth left where it was. That part is some of the evidence for the Jenova theory, but only a small part.
I don't have time to go into this now, I'll try tomorrow. I'll just be appreciative that Big D actually puts forward opposing theories that I'm not around to make myself.
Although I think the Jenova theory holds up to closer scrutiny than any alternatives.
I knew TheAbominatrix agreeing with me had to be some sort of mistake.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Personally, I find it that supports my view quite nicely - after Jenova-DEATH was destroyed, there was nothing substantial left of Jenova's headless body, the lifeless form that broke out of the Shinra building. My reason for saying this...? Birth, Life, and Death - together those form a complete cycle, a whole. Once they were gone, Jenova's body had been expended; all that remained were her head and the few cells liberated from the clones killed by Sephiroth. These combined to form Jenova-SYNTHESIS, which looks like a large entity, but is really very compact - if you happen to see SYSNTHESIS from behind, you'll notice that her ghiant spheroid body is just a hollow shell, trying to look bigger, more menacing, more complete.Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
A Jenova form appears and there is no Sephiroth left where it was. That part is some of the evidence for the Jenova theory, but only a small part.
...So anyway... once Jenova-DEATH ceased to be, Sephiroth had no more use for his illusory form. All he was doing was 'guiding' the body toward the Reunion; in spite of its strong homing and survival instincts, Jenova's body was helpless without a mind to serve as its guide - just like the 'Clones'. Without Jenova's body to give it substance, Sephiroth's illusory form was nothing more than a 'ghost' - a mere image projected by his mind. Hence why the 'vision' had to use the disguise of Tifa in order to deceive Barret/Nanaki into bringing the Black Materia to Sephiroth's real body. If Jenova's body was still around, Sephiroth would simply have used it to kill the bearer of the Black Materia. Now, I know what you're thinking - why didn't he simply kill Cloud at the Temple, and get the Materia that way, rather than manipulating him? The answer is simple - a test of wills. Cloud's individuality against the power of Jenova's influence; Sephiroth's will against Aeris'.
Jenova SYNTHESIS could equally (or moreso given the significance of the previous names) be an indication that Jenova is immortal, or at least close.
After millenia of wars and space travel the best anyone (an entire race actually) could do to her was slow her down, seems a bit odd that one man with a small amount of her cells is so much more powerful, and a relatively weak version of Cloud and Co. can kill her so easily.
Then there's the fact that only Sephiroth displays any ability to use psychic powers or illusionary skills, and he can use them on a global scale and to unbelievable lengths. No other clone can so much as give you a slight headache.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
dont you think your disecting this a little to much?
I've totally lost where this thread started.
Something about Sephiroth being 8....
Did the game even mention anything about "suspended animation"? I mean, he was in a coffin. Like that's gonna suspend somebodies animations! I only got the point that Vincent was tampered with.
Wait... does that mean Vincent has Jenova cells too? He is'nt as powerful as Cloud, Zack or Sephiroth....
I'm really confused now.
Vincent doesn't have any Jenova cells; he was used fro other, possibly worse, experiments though.
[q=PhoenixAsh]Then there's the fact that only Sephiroth displays any ability to use psychic powers or illusionary skills, and he can use them on a global scale and to unbelievable lengths. No other clone can so much as give you a slight headache.[/q]That's the point - Sephiroth was joining with the Planet, gaining incomparable powers over a period of years - Jenova can't do that; she's not of that world, so her own 'spirit energy' would be incompatible with the Lifestream. Notice that she doesn't use the Black Materia herself? That's further evidence.
Sephiroth's barely- formed foetus was directly infused with Jenova cells; he formed and grew with them in his body. That's a much closer and more powerful melding than the Clones have.
Jenova, on the other hand, was beaten by hte Cetra, sealed in rock for two millennia, dug up, dissected, stuffed in a tank, and ultimately beheaded. That's why she wasn't quite as powerful as she might once have been.
Now i am probibly going to be chastised for bringing up FF-X2... but hey i will leave a walkie talkie out here while i head to my bomb shelter... *sounds of a large door slamming shut and a large locking mechinisim sealing it shut* :shoot: FHHHSSSTTT... Testing... ok.
Now, if infact jenova is imortal don't you think that that could possible be the final boss again... ok now that is over i can move.
Now i thougt that the final jenova was the heart of it, because as you can see behind that hard protective shell there is a heart like shape beating inside of it...
I thought because of that, this form would be the last blow that cloud would be able to attack.
--- Da Magic Is In The Sause
Big D:
The trouble with that is, it never says that Jenova can't join, you just assumed it. Even if she couldn't by the time the reunion had occured (a reunion that I can't explain other than using the Jenova theory), there was enough Jenova in Sephiroth that if she couldn't neither could he IMO.That's the point - Sephiroth was joining with the Planet, gaining incomparable powers over a period of years - Jenova can't do that; she's not of that world, so her own 'spirit energy' would be incompatible with the Lifestream. Notice that she doesn't use the Black Materia herself? That's further evidence.
There's also no evidence that Jenova doesn't use the black materia herself, other than she used Sephiroth's body, which would require believing Sephiroth is in control to support it, which is circular logic.
It is much more, but it doesn't justify Sephiroth having the power to control people across the globe, project images of anyone he wants (which are capable of transporting Jenova who despite all of the things done to her can still turn a small dismembered body part into a huge boss), transform and use illusionary attacks, and fly.Sephiroth's barely- formed foetus was directly infused with Jenova cells; he formed and grew with them in his body. That's a much closer and more powerful melding than the Clones have.
The clones, and even Cloud can't acheive anything along these lines, let alone approach the scale Sephiroth can use.
It's also quite odd that everything 'Sephiroth' does is exactly what Jenova would have wanted.
She flew through space and crashed into the planet with a huge amount of force and still took on an entire race. Her body parts can take on your entire party after being removed. I really think she could handle more than you give her credit for.Jenova, on the other hand, was beaten by hte Cetra, sealed in rock for two millennia, dug up, dissected, stuffed in a tank, and ultimately beheaded. That's why she wasn't quite as powerful as she might once have been.
I won't go into the timing now, which also supports the theory, I think there's enough to go on.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
1. Hojo is Sephiroth's father (Vincent said that he loved Lucrecia, but he was only able to admire her from far. He never actually got to "sleep" with her o_O)
2. The real Sephiroth is dead, killed by Cloud five years ago in Mt. Nibel.
3. The current Sephiroth that is able to disappear, transform, etc in actually JENOVA, Sephiroth's "mother" (not exactly, Lucrecia is Sephirtoh's real mother)
I can't prove that all my theories are true. I've heard of them, and I believe them. So don't ask me for proofs. -_-
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