Sephiroth isn't dead, or if he is his body is being used by Jenova. More likely that his mind has been surpressed by Jenovas, if not destroyed.
It's definately his body in the Northern Crater (or at least I haven't seen anything to the contrary.
Sephiroth isn't dead, or if he is his body is being used by Jenova. More likely that his mind has been surpressed by Jenovas, if not destroyed.
It's definately his body in the Northern Crater (or at least I haven't seen anything to the contrary.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Cloud didn't kill Sephiroth at Mt Nibel; he flung him into the Lifestream, where he began amassing huge amounts of power and knowledge, not to mention the ability to psychically diffuse his will around the world. Sephiroth's body is clearly shown in its 'crystal tomb' at the North Crater.
PhoenixAsh: The fact that Cloud delivers the Black Materia to Sephiroth is reason enough to believe that Jenova couldn't use it herself. Materia = crystallised Mako; Mako = spirit energy of the Panet and the Cetra. Jenova was neither of those; hence why Sephiroth was doing all the dirty work.
I'm going on holiday for a couple of weeks now; so meh.
wow... i post this thread, come back a week later and have 2 pages of commotion.
Originally Posted by Leeza
Okay it's a shame Ds gone, but for anyone else I'll respond to his post.
PhoenixAsh: The fact that Cloud delivers the Black Materia to Sephiroth is reason enough to believe that Jenova couldn't use it herself. Materia = crystallised Mako; Mako = spirit energy of the Panet and the Cetra. Jenova was neither of those; hence why Sephiroth was doing all the dirty work.
Sephiroth was a large source of Jenova and was trapped, so the reunion had to go to him. The only other Jenova elements were regrouping very nearby, and probably wasn't in a state to take it.
Or maybe you're right about Jenova not being capable of using materia, and so she used Sephiroth's body to do it. Fits either theory so it seems like pointless stretching to me.
Oh and the abilities you assume he gained in the lifestream bear an uncanny resemblence to the ones Jenova already had.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Notice when you first meet "Sephiroth," he doesn't seem to recognize you. I'd guess that this is simply JENOVA emulating Sephiroth to strike fear into the people. She didn't count on one of the "Clones" to resist her power (although, he was subconsiously doing exactly what was needed). The other times you meet him, he knows exactly who you are - whatever you're dealing with, it clearly possesses Sephiroth's mind. Whether its JENOVA or Sephiroth in control of this is debatable, of course...
But if the clones were so important then why does sephiroth keep killing them? I think it was on the order of only the strongest will survive. Like when males of different animal species will fight for a mate. So in the end thier can be only one
--- Da Magic Is In The Sause
Most of them just keeled over and died at the crater. I'm not sure why... maybe that was enough to return JENOVA's power... or maybe their arrival was just a side effect of pulling Cloud in.
Jenova only needed her cells back from the clones, the human bodies would have been little use, so they were free to die once she'd took what she wanted from them.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Oh, yippee. This ol' debate again.
Whether it was a Sephiroth clone, and illusionary personage, or Jenova herself, I don't really know. But I still maintain that Jenova was in charge of Sephiroth(wasn't controlling him, but directing him). There's evidence to this fact in the dialogue throughout the game, for which I will later give specific examples.
Anyways, *is too lazy to read through this whole thread*
Well, yeah. Sephiroth wouldn't have known about the Black Materia or the Northern Crater by himself.
Well, he knew about the Crater since his body was kinda flung there after the Nibleheim incident. :P
However, he kept revering to Jenova as "Mother" and the "power of Jenova" and then, suddenly, about Cloud and co. being "traitors to the Cetra" and it seemed as if he felt fully justified in what he was doing, which makes me believe that he was being manipulated. I think Jenova was feeding him lies, and, combined with a pull from the Jenova cells, Sephiroth couldn't fight against with his tenuous hold on sanity that he had.
Well, Aeris and Sephiroth both used 'long-distance telepathy' - they had 'similar powers', even though she was just a 'normal' Human with a bit of Cetra ancestry. It would seem that 'super magical powers' are the same for nearly every species.Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
Oh and the abilities you assume he gained in the lifestream bear an uncanny resemblence to the ones Jenova already had
Funnily enough, I agree with what Raistlin has been saying - which is odd, since he and I had completely opposing views the last time this was debated.
Big D:
Oh come on. For a start Aeris is half Cetra, not 'a bit'. Then she's the only other person to use such abilities (other than limits). Then she doesn't even compare to Sephiroth (Jenova). She appeared in a dream once. 'Sephiroth' can take full control of people, project images across the globe, can mutate into giant monsters, can use illusionary magic to the extent of recreating the Solar System, can project images which are somehow capable of carrying Jenova, can cause dozens of people to break down and head to other continents....Well, Aeris and Sephiroth both used 'long-distance telepathy' - they had 'similar powers', even though she was just a 'normal' Human with a bit of Cetra ancestry. It would seem that 'super magical powers' are the same for nearly every species.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
Nah, Aeris is much less than half Cetra. Ifalna wasn't full-blooded, most likely; her line was probably mingled with regular Humans over generations.
As for Sephiroth's other abilities - they came about as a result of his natural Jenova-given powers amplified and enhanced by his 'bonding with the Planet' gig.
As Hojo's reunion theory explained, Jenova's natural instincts allow it to do this to a certain extent. Sephiroth's will wasn't carrying Jenova's body exactly; rather guiding it, since it had to head, no eyes, no mind of its own - unlike the Clones, whose fully-functioning bodies actually allowed the Reuinion to take place.can project images which are somehow capable of carrying Jenova
That was, in part, a result of the Reunion urge. They 'knew' they had to go somewhere; that compulsion came from the Jenova cells within them. Sephiroth's mind and illusory form directed that desire toward him. Killing several birds with one stone, as it were.can cause dozens of people to break down and head to other continents....
The entire reason Sephiroth could use such phenomenal abilities - world-shaking magic, demonic transformations and whatnot - is because of the awesome power he amassed. That's the whole point. He became more than Human, at least in terms of his strength. To say that this proves he wasn't 'really' the villain is like saying that (SPOILER)Kefka can't be the real enemy in FFVI - after all, no Human could ever sprout wings and singe cities with energy beams, now could he?
Well that's pretty debateable, but either way it was the Cetra in her that let her do magic. Sephiroth didn't have this.Nah, Aeris is much less than half Cetra. Ifalna wasn't full-blooded, most likely; her line was probably mingled with regular Humans over generations.
But that's the thing, they weren't amplified, they were completely new. Everyone else with Jenova cells got a little stronger, no psychic abilities at all, let alone the stuff 'Sephiroth' could do.As for Sephiroth's other abilities - they came about as a result of his natural Jenova-given powers amplified and enhanced by his 'bonding with the Planet' gig.
So then what was the point of making Jenova look like Sephiroth. If all he was doing was guiding it, why did it have to look like him?As Hojo's reunion theory explained, Jenova's natural instincts allow it to do this to a certain extent. Sephiroth's will wasn't carrying Jenova's body exactly; rather guiding it, since it had to head, no eyes, no mind of its own - unlike the Clones, whose fully-functioning bodies actually allowed the Reuinion to take place.
But the reason for the reunion was to get JENOVA back together, it had nothing really to do with Sephiroth. All 'he' needed was the Black Materia which only required Cloud and Co.That was, in part, a result of the Reunion urge. They 'knew' they had to go somewhere; that compulsion came from the Jenova cells within them. Sephiroth's mind and illusory form directed that desire toward him. Killing several birds with one stone, as it were.
But the thing is, in VI there was noone else around who could have done it. Jenova had all these powers way before Sephiroth. Both Cloud and Sephiroth experience the same thing, but only one gains these powers, seems fairly odd.The entire reason Sephiroth could use such phenomenal abilities - world-shaking magic, demonic transformations and whatnot - is because of the awesome power he amassed. That's the whole point. He became more than Human, at least in terms of his strength. To say that this proves he wasn't 'really' the villain is like saying that Kefka can't be the real enemy in FFVI - after all, no Human could ever sprout wings and singe cities with energy beams, now could he?
I know I shouldn't say this to a Knight, but you may have forgotten given this arguement is fairly complex, you might wanna tag the FFVI stuff.
I say what I think. If you disagree, then that is up to you.
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