Why FFIX is the Worst FF EVER!

[Zantetsuken !!!]

The ANSWER for your trouble of FF9 for not having any Moombas is that FF9 dont have the Shumis ( or Shubis ??), if you went on the Shumi Tribe you would know about Moombas and the Shumi true form ( that fushururu boss on the garden of balamb is on the Shumi true Form ), if i remember well there was a limit of experiences or just stuff they came across on their lifes, that decide if they are going to be Moombas or Fushururus ( Shumi true Form), again, there are no Moombas on FF9 cuz there's no Shumi tribe or Shumi people on the World of Terra or Gaia, plus, THE HARDEST BOSS ON ALL THE FF'S IS WITH NO DOUBT OMEGA FROM FF5, more info about him read my last reply here, as i said before: all the Weapons so as Ozma are nothing compared with Omega.
And at least but not last, play FF9 twice and i doubt you will say the same things you said about Quina.

[Jack]

Oh thanks for the grammar thing. THAT REALLY HELPS

So what if I spelt a name wrong? You obviously knew what I was talkng about so whats the problem? What's the point in taking the piss out of trivial things? Surely, you should be surporting FF9, rather then having a go at me.

As for my Spoliers, Im VERY sorry. I hate that, but I mark each section if they have spoilers so I'm sorry.

Anyway, i'll explain somethings and ask other things.

STORY
The only reason I kept asking about that, was because I was INTERESTED. I wanted to find out these things. Thanks American Badass for explaining my questions. You see, i thought it's story was a weak point, but now, i think it's one of it's strongest points. other then Necron, everything HAS a purpose. FF7 had some bits that JUST felt placed in there to give it more weight so their all the same. I just thought FF9's was weaker. But now, I think it's really good. I'm playing through it again so I understand it more. (Ive played it three times before, but i want to understand it better)
Thank's for the help!

AMARANT

Alright, let's discuss Amarant. First, he wasn't a thief, he was a mercenary. Plus, why do you try to make Cloud out to be stronger when he fails miserably at accomplishing his only childhood dream? Not to mention that surely you don't think that Cloud killed Sepiroth all those years ago..... Why does Amarant constantly rebel while still keeping with the party? Amarant lost a one on one fight to a energetic, young, and childish thief. He didn't understand how that could happen. So, he decided to follow Zidane in order to discover how he obtains such power. At the Castle of Ipsen, he tries to beat Zidane to prove that the rest of Zidane's party only brings him down. Amarant is a loner. He was trying to show Zidane that he would be better off being the same way. He fails, obviously, because a team is always stronger than an individual.

I said he was a thief but he's a mercenary. My mistake. Plus, the reason i make Cloud sound stronger when he fails is because he eventually becomes EVEN greater then Sephiroth. he proves that Shinra were wrong. He overcomes his set-back, and surpasses it. Amarant has NO back story and therefore, i find it hard to take him seriously as a Character. You could say he isn't a REAL story character, rather like Yuffie & Vincent. However, they had back stories. They were fleshed out, Amarant wasn't. You could say since he was cold, maybe he didn't need to be fleshed out. But Squall was cold, and was given credible reason's WHY. Amarant wasn't.

MOOMBAS

The ANSWER for your trouble of FF9 for not having any Moombas is that FF9 dont have the Shumis ( or Shubis ??), if you went on the Shumi Tribe you would know about Moombas and the Shumi true form ( that fushururu boss on the garden of balamb is on the Shumi true Form ), if i remember well there was a limit of experiences or just stuff they came across on their lifes, that decide if they are going to be Moombas or Fushururus ( Shumi true Form), again, there are no Moombas on FF9 cuz there's no Shumi tribe or Shumi people on the World of Terra or Gaia

I know THAT. However, I was saying that FF9 is meant to be a look back to previous games. It has plnty of references to other games (Vagrant Story, FF7 etc) and I just thought it'll be cool if Moomba's were in it AS WELL. Also, your point is a bit unfounded, sice Moomba's were in FFX and they have no real existence in THAT world. Also, Mog is a character in FF6 so he becomes a Story Character so why are they in every FF? Same as Chocobo's, for the main character's best friend is a chocobo called Boko in FF5. But they're in almost every game. I perhaps thought that they could be in this game as a reference to FF8.

MUSIC

According to most professional music critics, FFIX's music is actually cosidered superior to all others. However, the Crystal theme sounds dang familiar. Maybe this is all part of the nostalgic value of the game.

I don't care what they say, it's my opinion. i didn't like it.
Anyway, a critic is simply someone who gets paid to express their opinion on it. That exactly what I did (Except get paid). For example, some critics think Eminem creates the BEST music in the world. Some think he writes rubbish songs and is a waste of space.
I like Rage Against The Machine, Do you? Probably not, beacsue THATS your opinion.

Also, the Crystal theme should sound familiar, its in almost all the FF's, from FF5, I definetly heard it in 5 and I think I heard it in 7 as well. it's a regualar, another reference to previous FFs.

QUINA
I have played it OVER twice, and I still don't like him. Some people don't like Squall, some don't like Cloud. I don't like a character. Hell, he aint even the main character.

I feel that if I should have to play as a character, he should be fleshed out. Given a story. Given a meaning. He wasn't, and I just couldn't see the point. Also, before anyone says some characters in other games weanrt even given a story, so i should be happy, one of the reasons why FFs are so respected is because of their story. It's also not the only reason why I like them either. MGS2 had an OVERLY extensive story, and I hated that. Quina wasn't given story and at times, I felt he just wasn't needed.

As for his care-free attitude. If was so good, then why didn't they adopt it? Because if they did, the world would have ended. Yes, Freya learned & so did Vivi. But they were obsesive worriers in the first place. The only way was up for them.

OTHER CHARACTERS
and my opinion on them

FREYA-Obsesive worrier. Didn't like.
EIKO-Slightly annoying at first, other then that, good character
REGENT CID-Stupid Frog story. Wasn't as enderiing as previous Cids
JESTER TWINS-Evil little buggers, and a little Creepy.
BRAHNE-Stupidly fat but good character. Tragic Villan like Kuja
GARLAND-Good, he was a good character because he was dark and was cold to both his creations
MIKADO (Geonome)-I like her, because she showed how Zidane whould gain a personality.
BEATRIX-I liked her because she mellowed Steiner, but I didn't like how she DIDN'T KNOW what Brahne was doing was wrong.

WEAPONS
I know Omega from FF5 is too hard. i was just saying I liked fighting a massive dragon-style character, with lasers and more, then a beach-ball (OZMA)

PLAYABILITY

Anyway, the main reason is really just that it didnt engage me. When i turned it on and started playing, it didnt pull me in and make me want to play more, like most other FF games did (even VIII, and VIII is the one I hate most for its lack of character development). With, for example, Kingdom Hearts, I couldnt put the controller down, I was so into it. IX failed to draw me in at the beginning, and thus I set my controller down and walked away. Even when I forced myself to try and play it for the mere sake of getting it over with, I couldnt make it far past disc 1.

I played FF9, and Ive played it again. I play it because i want to. it's a good game. BUT not a good FF (In my opinion). Even FFX was boring at times but I played through it, and forgot all the boring bits, and remembered the good times. But with FFIX, i couldn't. all the bad bits just stuck out. Maybe it could be because I really liked the series, thought it would go down hill after it went to PS1, didn't, and I expected the final PS1 game to be the best. But it wasn't. I was dissapointed with it, and that's why I hate it as a FF. I apreciate the good bits (Vivi, Story "now thanks to some help", Chocograph and some of it's quirkier characters (EXCEPT thos Qus). I liked the Moogles, I enjoyed Terra as a place and numourous other points. i just didn't think it was that good a FF.

I also didn't think it was that good a send-off to previous FFs. Not a fair Tribute.

[PhoenixAsh]

It's alright about the spoilers Legolas, everyone seems to be doing it now.
Can I request that people put spoiler tags on anything to do with pre PSone FFs from now on as I haven't played them all. I don't wanna have to avoid this thread.

[Stupid Moomba 88]

I'm new to this Forum (well mostly), but I think that everyone has a point about FFIX. I think that Final Fantasy IX is hard but I prefer it to Final Fantasy VIII. Number 8 is the most complicated FF there has been. The junction system is a lot harder than all the other ways. Equiping weapons and armour (FFIX) is one of the simplest but effective ways to upgrade characters. I must agree with Legolas63 that some characters aren't very playable, but thats the same with all of them. I couldn't stand Irvine and Zell, very annoying people. I also can't get involved with playing as Barret and Yuffie, they are not interesting people. But as I say, we are not not her to judge characters, but to talk about the nineth Final Fantasy. The music in some places , I must admit is good (Especially the Loss Of Me song, I can nearly play it on my keyboard!). The story was involving, and you can't help but cry for when you think about (SPOILER) Zidane being dead. However, I must say What Is The Point Of Quina And Amarent????? They are DUMB characters!!! Why is there some of the mini games in the game, some are so boring I wanted to scream? I know that you don't have to play them but I thought that was why they were there! The end boss was extremely incredebily EASY! My cat could beat it just by hitting the Control Pad! Phew... I glad I got that off my chest!

[Jack]

Stupid Moomba 88, your post came to me while I was surfing so I'll just argue my case.

FF9 vs FF8

I think that Final Fantasy IX is hard but I prefer it to Final Fantasy VIII. Number 8 is the most complicated FF there has been

I don't agree with you there. FF9 is easy, people in this forum have already said that and most the planet had said it's EASY. This means that you must also be new to
FF games too.

Also, FF8 wasn't complicated. It had easy buttons for those that couldn't get it's Junction system. It was just more FLEXIBLE, something that FF9 isn't. FF9 is very restrictive, for each character has different abilities.

The junction system is a lot harder than all the other ways. Equiping weapons and armour (FFIX) is one of the simplest but effective ways to upgrade characters.

Nope, FF8 wasn't hard. Plus, FF8 was a revelation, with Square trying new things. So it makes sense it alienated some players. i throughly enjoyed FF8, and if you played it more then you'll agree.

CHARACTERS

I must agree with Legolas63 that some characters aren't very playable, but thats the same with all of them. I couldn't stand Irvine and Zell, very annoying people. I also can't get involved with playing as Barret and Yuffie, they are not interesting people. But as I say, we are not not her to judge characters, but to talk about the nineth Final Fantasy

I didn't say they weren't playable, i said they wearn't LIKEABLE. And no, Irvine & Zell wearn't dislikable, they were mis-understood. But i doubt you played FF8 all the way through. And judging characters in FF9 is discussing FF9, so lets continue doing that

ENDING?
As for your (spoiler)Zidane being dead thing, you knew he wasn't going to die. And another thing, it wasn't upsetting, only FFX's ending brought me close to tears. FF9's was too sickly sweet how everything is wrapped uop in a nice little bow. There's no room for plot discussion because everything is wrapped up.Everyone is happy, Eiko gets parents, Garnet gets Zidane, Steiner gets Beatrix,Quina becomes a chef,Freya gets her lost love. Everyone gets what they want. one of the worst endings i'll say.

As for your Necron comment, i couldn't care what you cat can do. If you're gonna post. post something relevent, so we can discuss it and not something so random and irrelevent that it's not worth talking about.
I hope you'll express some better opinions next time.

[PhoenixAsh]

That was a bit harsh Legolas, Necron being easy is a fairly common criticism of the game.

I think the happy ending was a way to round of the PSone series. Though it wasn't any happier than (SPOILER)VIII's.

[Phil]

Okay pull out your tissues and sit down.We're here to solve this. This is my ultimate opinion on the game. FFIX was a brilliant game taking the good points from all the other games and combining them itno one. Every charachter had a reason for being there. Quina was needed to marry vivi so they could pass thru conde petie. she was also setting out to discover the misteries of the world. Amarant had a purpose in finding out the meaning of forgiveness. Even if they didnt have a reason to continue or so it seemed, there were alterior purposes that you have to see closely. As for the plot, I thought it was brilliant. Two people battling against not only against each other, but against life itself in an attempt to save their souls as well as all of the others of the planet. Kuja wasa perfect villain displaying both sarcasm and poetic skills making him one of the deepest villains of all time. Sepheroth wasnt a deep villain. He was a psychofreak bent on becoming a god. As for the music, I find it great and original. The battle music was especially upbeat and a song you can't get sick of unlike the FF7 and 8 battle music. The other music sent shivers up my spine, especially the scene of the Theater Ship entering Alexandria. The CG's, although few, were to die for in my opinion. Zidane was a perfection as well. He wasnt a massive-weapon-slinger as previously stated, and didnt have a "shut the hell up" attitude as squall and cloud did. He also had very neat double-bladed weapons. The theif idea, as used in ff6, fit perfectly in wtih the theme. Now, as for zidane being rude to stiener, he had a reason. Really, he DIDNT have a reason to explain anything to steiner. He obeyed Baku and Cid and was following the orders he was given. Thats showing good qualities. That is my opinon on FF9. It's the best game in my opinion.

[Breine]

I love mogs, and I was disappointed when FFX didn’t have any living breathing Moogles. However, there were far too many Mogs. It just got a bit sickly sweet after a while. Also, why aren’t any Moomba’s in it. I no, they are from F8’s world. But Moogles & Chocobo’s are in almost all the FF worlds, so why not Moombas? That would have been a great reference to a previous FF, and since they are great creatures, would have been a nice addition. But no, they add those Qus

In my opinion it was partly the Moogles fault that this game had a humorous side. They were funny, full of life and they wasn't afraid to say what was on their minds. I just loved them.

About the Moomba thing: I don't think that the Moombas are as popular as the chocobos and the Moogles, although I personally think they're cute.

[PhoenixAsh]

Vincent, there are a few errors in your arguement.

Quina isn't needed to marry Vivi, they can pass through anyway, and her being there to explore things hardly qualifies her as an addition.

Amarant being there to find out the meaning of forgiveness is fairly pointless if they don't explain why he didn't know it in the first place.

Sephiroth is HUGELY deep. If you believe some theories, he's deeper still.

Zidane's reasons for explaining to Steiner and not being rude were simple common sense. If he'd explained Steiner would have actually HELPED instead of trying to stop their progress. It would also be simple courtesy to someone who has no reason to think you aren't a raping, murdering thief.

He didn't work for Baku, and there's no evidence that he knew the kidnap had anything to do with Cid. He never mentions it, Tantalus never mention it, Dagger is the one who wanted to go to Lindblum, and she is the only person with Cid when it comes up.

[American Badass]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
Sephiroth is HUGELY deep. If you believe some theories, he's deeper still.

Sephiroth is deep before he falls into the lifestream. After that event, any reasons he had before that justified what he was doing seemingly vanished. In other words, the past tense Sephiroth was a misguided villain and formed conclusions based off of inaccurate findings. The present tense Sephiroth wants to become God because he thinks its his right. Two very different ways of thinking there, and no bridge between the two.

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
He didn't work for Baku, and there's no evidence that he knew the kidnap had anything to do with Cid. He never mentions it, Tantalus never mention it, Dagger is the one who wanted to go to Lindblum, and she is the only person with Cid when it comes up.

Ok, firstly, Zidane was a member of Tantalus, and therefore, he worked for Baku. In the Evil Forest, Zidane basically left Tantalus and no longer worked for Baku.

While in Tantalus, he was following Baku's orders which came directly from Cid who asked Baku for help in getting Garnet to Lindblum because the two of them go "way back" according to Cid, himself. So whether or not Zidane knew about Cid is rather moot. However, Zidane's attitude towards Steiner, and the fact that Zidane mentions never meeting Cid supports the idea that Zidane did not, in fact, have any knowledge that Cid was behind the whole thing.

[Jack]

Ok, I was harsh to Stupid Moomba 88, but It was late. I'll send my apology: I'm Sorry. Accepted? Then I'll continue,

QUIT TRASHING THE FRIGGIN GAME
I think some of you think I'm bashing FFIX because I can. Because I want to cause trouble. Nope, I'm expressing my opinion on it beacsue I want to. I don't wanna start a war, I just want people to hear my opinion and actually listen, not just dismiss it becasue they don't want to hear it. If you love FFIX enough to just let my comments wash over you, or reply sensibly, with constructive comments (And No comments about my Grammar) then that's cool. But if you just flame me, then I'll reply with more anger. So it doesn't work.

ITS TOO EASY
Right, back to my first point. I payed £40 on a new FF. I did this with FF7 & FF8 as well. I played those ones deeply, and enjoyed every second, so I expected to experience that with this one. Put it in and played. Right, I played a loooonnnnnggg time before getting off because I wanted to play it. So I did. However, I never raised my levels. On my first play, I just enjoy it, I don't look, and i don't look for anything. i do the obvious, and complete the game.
Here comes MY problem, I realised it was something like midnight, and i was on Disc 3 about to get to Terra. 21 hours had clocked. I hadn't raised, all my characters were about lvl30. On the over FF on PS1, that didn't happen. When I got to the huge robot thing in the underwater part of Junon. in FF7,I was stumped because I hadn'/t raised. So i did, then progressed. Although in FF8, the enemie get harder as Squall does, so it makes it a little easier, at one point, he was TO strong, so I killed him, and raised some of the others in battle, still they could cope. FF9, I didn't, so i feel it was made easier.
Also, Necron was VERY easy IMO, even at early levels, so I felt he wasn't a very good conclusion to the game.
(For all you who think I missed out on things, i played again, and tried to get everything)

MINI GAMES
They WERE different wearn't they? They were more simplyfied, and you would miss them if you didn't explore you enviroment (Skiping & Running). That I did like. Howver, here's my opinion
SKIPPING-Cool, but hell on my fingers & pad
FIGHT-Too easy IMO
CHOCOBO-Fun, and better then FF8's chocobo game.
COINS-Simple finding things game, not fun
QUIZ GUY-Different, I like!!!
RUNNING-Stupid F***ING GAME Hate with a passion
CARDS-Poor compared to FF8. VERY POOR

My point was, there wasn't that much chalenging things. it souughta was just pressing buttons (With the exception on CHOCO & CARDS). They all involved some speed thought, whereas Cards & Choco involved actual thought. My problem was that they WEARNT as GOOD as prebviously. With FF7's snowboarding,motocycling, sub dive, mog house e.t.c
FF8's were thin on the ground, but instead they replaced it with CARDS, the holiest game ever!! It was deep and fun, and when you lost, you just wanted to dive back in and face the punk again.
FF9;s cards wearnt as technical, and less simple, so it wasn't as fun. Also, until someone replaces FF7's Chocobo racing with something better, then I'll never be happy. i've hated FF10's, I dispise FF8's and although FF9's is the best of that lot, it's just not AS good as chcobo racing.

FFIX GENERALLY

Every charachter had a reason for being there. Quina was needed to marry vivi so they could pass thru conde petie. she was also setting out to discover the misteries of the world. Amarant had a purpose in finding out the meaning of forgiveness. Even if they didnt have a reason to continue or so it seemed, there were alterior purposes that you have to see closely. As for the plot, I thought it was brilliant. Two people battling against not only against each other, but against life itself in an attempt to save their souls as well as all of the others of the planet. Kuja wasa perfect villain displaying both sarcasm and poetic skills making him one of the deepest villains of all time. Sepheroth wasnt a deep villain. He was a psychofreak bent on becoming a god.

As for the Character thing, that was written into the script. They didn' need to get to get married if Square didn't put it in there. Did Amarant ACTUALLY learn anything? Did Quina have to discover the world? Nope, because they didn't have to BE there. I now understand Quina's trole on the party. However, did she have to be so obsesessed with food? You could have had a carefree character that actually ahd something importent to say.

I now believe that the Plot is one of the best bits, so I wont argue with you there. EXCEPT with Sephiroth. he was the LORD of villians. He wasn't human (As in, he didn't have human feelings) but imagine, who would you be more scared of?

1) A cold, heatless monster who doesn't care about ANYTHING, with no feeling could slaughter millions for his own purpose?

2) A guy who wants to get back at a dude who siad he was inferiotr. Finds out truth (That he was created and is going to die ) and flips, destroying a world and then wants to destroy the whole universe.

Sephiroth is a good villian because he's menacing. Kuja is a good villain because he appeared so NORMAL, but he wasn't. Sephioth was a scary guy, Kuja was a tagiv villian. Different styles, Different Villianary.

Vincent06, you are cool, but I want to express my opinion on your opinions. No hard feelings.

[American Badass]

Originally posted by Legolas63
I now believe that the Plot is one of the best bits, so I wont argue with you there. EXCEPT with Sephiroth. he was the LORD of villians.

In the flashbacks, Sephiroth is shown to be cold, but still having feelings like anyone else. He finds about his past, or rather, part of it because the books he read were inaccurate, and thus, his knowledge was inaccurate. He flipped out for all the wrong reasons, but were right to him, and begin killing at will because he thought he was justified in his actions. This Sephiroth had all the makings of one of the most beautiful badass tragic villains I've ever seen.

Unfortunately, the Sephiroth in present tense FFVII is a poor man's idea of a villain. He gives no reason for his actions other than giving nonsensical riddles, telling us we don't understand, and saying that it is his right. All signs of an incredible villain were not expanded on in the present tense of the game. So the villain I was expecting turned out to be a cliche villain who wanted to be God for no other given reason other than he felt that only he should become God.

Originally posted by Legolas63
He wasn't human (As in, he didn't have human feelings) but imagine, who would you be more scared of?

1) A cold, heatless monster who doesn't care about ANYTHING, with no feeling could slaughter millions for his own purpose?

2) A guy who wants to get back at a dude who siad he was inferiotr. Finds out truth (That he was created and is going to die ) and flips, destroying a world and then wants to destroy the whole universe.

This is a moot point. Because while any normal person would be afraid of Sephiroth, Kuja would have someone run and stab you in the back. Before Kuja tranced, he was a manipulator. He had everyone do his dirty work so he didn't have to do anything.

Think about it, Kuja manipulated Brahne to the point where Brahne extracted eidolons out of her surrogate daughter, Garnet, used those Eidolons and the Black Mages Kuja provided to defeat Lindblum, Burmecia, and decimate Cleyra. And when Brahne challenged Kuja, Kuja stole control of Bahamut from her, and killed her with him. And after that, Kuja used Bahamut to nearly level Alexandria until the Eidolon Alexander and later, Garland, Were able to put a stop to it.

My point is, Kuja was as deadly as Sephiroth was, but Kuja just went about it differently. Its about point of view. Would you rather display your power and give your enemy an idea of what you can do, or would you rather manipulate things to the point where your enemy has no idea how strong you really are.

And Kuja has no problem in throwing lives away left and right to accomplish what he wants. In fact, that is one of the two huge ironies surrounding Kuja and the Black Mages.

[Angel_Reaper]

WOW!! Very good pionts you got American Badass. Never thought of it really. I like both Kuja and Sephiroth. They both make great bad guys not to mention good looking to.

I like the game cause it had cute parts in it. But I kindof got bord with it. Took forever to finish it. But every now and then I play it just to see the cute parts and *cough* Kuja *cough*. I have a cold. :riiight:

[PhoenixAsh]

American Badass:

Ok, firstly, Zidane was a member of Tantalus, and therefore, he worked for Baku. In the Evil Forest, Zidane basically left Tantalus and no longer worked for Baku.

While in Tantalus, he was following Baku's orders which came directly from Cid who asked Baku for help in getting Garnet to Lindblum because the two of them go "way back" according to Cid, himself. So whether or not Zidane knew about Cid is rather moot. However, Zidane's attitude towards Steiner, and the fact that Zidane mentions never meeting Cid supports the idea that Zidane did not, in fact, have any knowledge that Cid was behind the whole thing.

I know he USED to work for Baku. However he didn't when he was being needlessly difficult with Steiner.

It's hardly moot. He was just following orders. So in real life do you forgive people who kidnap teenagers just because they were told to do so? If he didn't know the real reason for doing so then he has no justification.

Sephiroth is deep before he falls into the lifestream. After that event, any reasons he had before that justified what he was doing seemingly vanished. In other words, the past tense Sephiroth was a misguided villain and formed conclusions based off of inaccurate findings. The present tense Sephiroth wants to become God because he thinks its his right. Two very different ways of thinking there, and no bridge between the two.

Hence why I believe FFVII (SPOILER) Jenova took control over Sephiroth when he went insane, and is in charge of almost everything he does from then on. There's more to it but that's not for here. Though a later quote of your's on Kuja goes someway:

Its about point of view. Would you rather display your power and give your enemy an idea of what you can do, or would you rather manipulate things to the point where your enemy has no idea how strong you really are.

[American Badass]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
I know he USED to work for Baku. However he didn't when he was being needlessly difficult with Steiner.

Zidane was being as difficult for Steiner just as much as Steiner was being difficult with Zidane. Even after the princess was saved, Steiner was still as curt with Zidane as he was when he first met. And after Blank essentially sacraficed himself in the Evil Forest, the same Blank who made medicine to cure Steiner which ended up saving his life, Steiner didn't show an ounce of remorse for him, nor did he show any pity towards Zidane...two men who helped him.

This shows Steiner as quite the uncaring brute (at the time at least) even at the point where he could watch over Garnet. And lets face it, if Zidane wanted to rape Garnet, he wouldn't have asked Steiner to come with him for help in the Evil Forest.

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
It's hardly moot. He was just following orders. So in real life do you forgive people who kidnap teenagers just because they were told to do so? If he didn't know the real reason for doing so then he has no justification.

There is no evidence to support that Zidane had any knowledge of Regent Cid's involvement, just like that there is no evidence that supports that Zidane did know about Cid's involvement.

Since neither one of us can say for sure what Zidane did and did not know, the point is actually quite moot because at that point when Zidane was no longer a member of Tantalus, he was doing what Garnet asked of him. Why did he do it? Well, it did just so happen that it coincided with his last orders. Zidane also lived in Lindblum, so continuing with the plan of kidnap and doing what she asked also meant ending up going home. The Tantalus group was also based in Lindblum, so maybe Zidane thought he could go back to the group after he dropped the princess off. And last, but not least, maybe he thought he could get Garnet to fall in love with him.

And I'll throw out a moot point of my own. If you were attracted to a beautiful princess, wouldn't you try to get her to fall in love with you? And what if she was a regular girl? Would you still try?

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh Hence why I believe FFVII (SPOILER) Jenova took control over Sephiroth when he went insane, and is in charge of almost everything he does from then on. There's more to it but that's not for here.

If that's what you believe, then how does that make Sephiroth a deep villain? If anything, it makes him a mere puppet because he doesn't do anything of his own free will. But you're right, this forum isn't the place for this discussion. If you want, I welcome a PM exchange to hear your views.