Why FFIX is the Worst FF EVER!

[PhoenixAsh]

American Badass:

Zidane was being as difficult for Steiner just as much as Steiner was being difficult with Zidane. Even after the princess was saved, Steiner was still as curt with Zidane as he was when he first met. And after Blank essentially sacraficed himself in the Evil Forest, the same Blank who made medicine to cure Steiner which ended up saving his life, Steiner didn't show an ounce of remorse for him, nor did he show any pity towards Zidane...two men who helped him.

Steiner was being difficult with Zidane because he didn't trust him. It was also his job to be difficult as he worked for Brahne at the time, and helping teenage runaways escape wasn't in his job description. If someone had thought to explain what was going on it might have helped.
Steiner might have thanked them for helping him, had they not nearly gotten him and the Princess into the life threatening situation to begin with.

This shows Steiner as quite the uncaring brute (at the time at least) even at the point where he could watch over Garnet. And lets face it, if Zidane wanted to rape Garnet, he wouldn't have asked Steiner to come with him for help in the Evil Forest.

Why? Because rapists prefer to get themselves killed or let their victims die than ask for the help of heavily armed swordsmen?
I don't think Zidane had intended rape, I'd guess he was just in it for cash. But Steiner had no reason to think that.

There is no evidence to support that Zidane had any knowledge of Regent Cid's involvement, just like that there is no evidence that supports that Zidane did know about Cid's involvement.

Since neither one of us can say for sure what Zidane did and did not know, the point is actually quite moot because at that point when Zidane was no longer a member of Tantalus, he was doing what Garnet asked of him. Why did he do it? Well, it did just so happen that it coincided with his last orders. Zidane also lived in Lindblum, so continuing with the plan of kidnap and doing what she asked also meant ending up going home. The Tantalus group was also based in Lindblum, so maybe Zidane thought he could go back to the group after he dropped the princess off. And last, but not least, maybe he thought he could get Garnet to fall in love with him.

It's not moot because if he knew he was just being awkward by not telling Steiner, or at least giving some indication. If he did know on the other hand then that makes him just as bad as Steiner says he is.
I really doubt love came into it at that stage, not for someone like Zidane. He was after sex with a beautiful teenager, I really don't think it was more than that.

If that's what you believe, then how does that make Sephiroth a deep villain? If anything, it makes him a mere puppet because he doesn't do anything of his own free will. But you're right, this forum isn't the place for this discussion. If you want, I welcome a PM exchange to hear your views.

I doesn't, it makes him a tragic character. It makes Jenova a good villain. There's a really big thread on that in the FFVII though, and it's way too deep for PMs or I would.

[Phil]

Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
Vincent, there are a few errors in your arguement.

Quina isn't needed to marry Vivi, they can pass through anyway, and her being there to explore things hardly qualifies her as an addition.

Amarant being there to find out the meaning of forgiveness is fairly pointless if they don't explain why he didn't know it in the first place.

Sephiroth is HUGELY deep. If you believe some theories, he's deeper still.

Zidane's reasons for explaining to Steiner and not being rude were simple common sense. If he'd explained Steiner would have actually HELPED instead of trying to stop their progress. It would also be simple courtesy to someone who has no reason to think you aren't a raping, murdering thief.

He didn't work for Baku, and there's no evidence that he knew the kidnap had anything to do with Cid. He never mentions it, Tantalus never mention it, Dagger is the one who wanted to go to Lindblum, and she is the only person with Cid when it comes up.

Yes I know quina didnt HAVE to marry vivi, but it was just fun to see. She had a purpose because she joins your party regaurdless wether you stop and get her in the swamps after Lindblum.
Amarant didnt know forgiveness. His actions showed it. He wanted to prove he was a warrior but he decided to follow Zidane to see why he was forgiving.
Sephiroth wasnt a deep charachter.... like said He was a psycho-freak who wanted to take over the world.
Maybe he didtn care what steiner thought because he didnt NEED to. He didtn need steiners help anyways. He had no reason to tell him. He was doing his job. So was steiner, I know, but garnet even ASKED him to go away.
Now, how do you prove Zidane didnt work for Baku? He was in the group which baku was the BOSS of!! Now as for him not knowing it was Cid's order, you dont have any proof that he DIDNT know. So there. And yes, Tantalus DID mention it. Zidane was with cid when he mentioned it was Cid himself who hired them to kidnapp Garnet. By the way, I wasnt arguing. I was stating facts.

[PhoenixAsh]

Yes I know quina didnt HAVE to marry vivi, but it was just fun to see. She had a purpose because she joins your party regaurdless wether you stop and get her in the swamps after Lindblum.

So the reason Quina joins your party, is that Quina joins your party...?

Amarant didnt know forgiveness. His actions showed it. He wanted to prove he was a warrior but he decided to follow Zidane to see why he was forgiving.

He didn't know forgiveness, why? He wanted to know forgiveness, why? His entire purpose was unexplained so why put him in at all?

Sephiroth wasnt a deep charachter.... like said He was a psycho-freak who wanted to take over the world.

Zidane wasn't a good character, he was a monkey who wanted to have sex with Dagger. Let's try not to make statements that are completely unjustified from now on?

Maybe he didtn care what steiner thought because he didnt NEED to. He didtn need steiners help anyways. He had no reason to tell him. He was doing his job. So was steiner, I know, but garnet even ASKED him to go away.
Now, how do you prove Zidane didnt work for Baku? He was in the group which baku was the BOSS of!! Now as for him not knowing it was Cid's order, you dont have any proof that he DIDNT know. So there. And yes, Tantalus DID mention it. Zidane was with cid when he mentioned it was Cid himself who hired them to kidnapp Garnet. By the way, I wasnt arguing. I was stating facts.

He didn't NEED to, but so what? It doesn't justify not doing something just because you don't have to. Steiner would have been totally justified (for the setting) in killing Zidane in his sleep. In fact he would have been hailed in his hometown for doing so, and he probably knew that. He let him live, because he has honour.
Zidane DIDN'T work for Baku. He quit after the Theatre Ship crashed. The evidence that he didn't know is that he never mentions it, and it was Dagger who wanted to go to Lindblum. Zidane being in the room (which I didn't think he was) when Cid mentions it doesn't count as Tantalus mentioning it.

[Jack]

Hey, I'm back to fight the good fight IMO.

SEPHIROTH VS KUJA

SEPHIROTH- Cold, calculating killer. Menacing, even before you actually see him. Strong, emotionless warrior Wants to be a God.. But before that, he was cold, but had feelings.

KUJA-Bit of a women, affeminite. Liked killing without getting hands dirty. Stabbed guys in the back. Goes insane. Realises actions at his death.

So it's really a matter of principle. Do you like your villians evil, or mindly evil? Sephiroth wasn't a Pyscho freek, he was a mixed up individual but he knew hat he wanted. he was clear, and calculated, and aimed for that goal. AS WAS KUJA!!!
Sephiroth wanted to become God. Kuja wanted to prove how great he was. The problem here is that Sephiroth had the ultimate goal and Kuja wanted to prove he was better then his "brother", just to prove "daddy" wrong.
Sephiroth may have been cold, but he wanted to be the most powerful being in the universe
Kuja wanted to prove Garland wrong, so he got a fat person to slaughter people with his creations, just to prove that Zidane wasn't supirior.

Tell me, which one has got the insecurity complex?

QUINA

So the reason Quina joins your party, is that Quina joins your party...?

That's right! Finally someone has been listening to me!
There is no point fo a fat, ugly sitophiliac to join the party!

ZIDANE
He was weak (Character strength (As in Rambo is harder then Woody Allen) and personality)
Who wants to play as a horny teenager who wants to have sex with a hot princess(Who's also a teenager. He's got a tail, runs like a monkey and touches girl asses? Oh yeah, and he likes peeing with men watching him.

1 hand up? Put it down Gary Glittter.

ZIDANE VS STEINER
Steiner was doing his job in being nasty to Zidane (I don't think part of his job discription was letting hony monkeys kidnap princesses)
Zidane was just pissing him off. He,a badly armed theif, was pissing off a armoured knight, with loads of battle experiance and a big sword.That either means that
1)He's got a death wish
2)He's a T***

Zidane did quit after the ship crashed, but he needed to take one last visit to their hideout, thats why he went. To say goodbye. He quit cause he wanted to get laid and cause he wanted to see thw orld. To try and find his hometown. yes he didn't find it before, but hey why not try. plus he fancied Granet, and wanted to hang with her so he could get some action. Which leads on to the next section......

LOVE????
Did Garnet & Zidane actually love each other deeply, or was it just that she needed someone. Zidane might have fancied the pants off her, but did she? The only way to compare about the love is to compare love from previous FFs

Cloud 4 Tifa
True love!!! Why? Because they'd always like each other, even back then, then Aeries got in the way
Then trout happens so love comes there way

Squall 4 Rinoa
Do I have to explain this one, or will you accept true love?

Tidus 4 yuna
Yet again, do i have to explain?

Garnet 4 Zidane
Not love, just infatuation at the begining. Zidane wants so booty and chases her around the world tying and chatting her up. Then she gives in when she thinks HES DEAD at the VERY END. Not true love, just an infautuation. In the sequel, she's fallen out of "love" with him cause he's too horny and his tail gets in the way. Plus, he's a cocky T***.

Discuss. (Oh yeah, i think some new people should join with the discussion, as to get fresh opinions.Not saying that the ones here are bad, but i want this treadf to be huge!)

[Stupid Moomba 88]

First of all, I have played through FF8, thank you very much Legolas63.

i throughly enjoyed FF8, and if you played it more then you'll agree.

I have also played Numbers 1,2,4,7,8,10, so you can't say I'm a immature person. Anyway, enough with that, you are right about the love thing. Garnet and Zidane aren't really the love intrest of FFIX. All the other FFs have love intrests. However sometimes I think that Zidane just wants something, or one, to make him happy. Think about it, he is a lonely thief, with only a few friends. The poor guy needs a shoulder to cry on. That I guess is the real purpose of Garnet. I suppose that she doesn't really love him. She just sees him as a excuse to act not so serious as she should as a princess. Just like Tidus and Yuna, Tidus lets Yuna chill out and not be so tight with herself and emotions. Zidane releases the fun side of Garnet.

[Xander]

I like the love between Zidane and Garnet because it is more like a friendship and it develops slowly throughout the game rather than coming from nowhere like I felt Yuna and Tidus' relationship did in FFX in a way.

Stupid Moomba 88, what you say about Zidane releasing the fun side of Garnet is true, but I see this as part of why they made a good couple. Opposites attract and bring out the best in each other.

They were opposites at first, a thief and a princess but Zidane showed Garnet there was more to life and she sorta tamed him by the end I feel, he was less immature and more genuinely caring towards her. It's sorta like the whole Titanic thing, the typical poor guy loves the rich girl and brings her into his world.

I agree that at first Zidane saw Garnet as just another girl, it was obvious that he was always after girls and that's all he saw her as. But through the game they helped each other, and I felt that he grew to respect her, care about her and possibly love her.

And as for Garnet's feeling towards Zidane, she appreciated him showing her his world, when she (SPOILER)cuts her hair with his knife it shows how he has helped her to feel more free, and after that point do you notice how her portrait in the menu is smiling, which it wasn't before. He made her happier and helped her move on from the past.

Just because the love wasn't shoved in your face like FFVIII and FFX doesn't mean it wasn't there, imo.

[Angel_Reaper]

Its NOT the wrost. It just not the one i play most of. Even though i an playing it now. I love the characters (mostly Zidane, Kuja, Blank (poor guy), Vivi (sweety), and Baku (AAACHOOO) .

[ShadyMilkman]

Basically, one man's trash is another's treasure. What one may see as silly, another sees as genius. Quina. Some see him as childish and pointless. I loved him. Loved how he taught the other characters so much by just being himself. He was fun-loving and light-hearted. He enjoyed all the simple things that most of us overlook. Amarant. You say garbage, I say great. He's interesting, intriguing, and mysterious. He brought something we haven't seen, a character who didn't really like our other heroes. He thought he had something to prove. He thought he would show Zidane that being alone makes you stronger. But, throughout the game, he realizes that what makes you stronger is by being among companions. Learning from one another. Weapons were a bit different for once. No freaky big swords. No guns. Catclaws are great. Butterfly swords, love em. The air rackets, very creative. I was a happy camper with this game. CHEERS!

[PhoenixAsh]

Amarant. You say garbage, I say great. He's interesting, intriguing, and mysterious. He brought something we haven't seen, a character who didn't really like our other heroes.

Squall, Yuffie, Shadow (maybe I forget). They had progression and explanations though instead of just being pointlessly awkward.

He thought he had something to prove. He thought he would show Zidane that being alone makes you stronger. But, throughout the game, he realizes that what makes you stronger is by being among companions. Learning from one another.

Seifer.

Weapons were a bit different for once. No freaky big swords.

Steiner.

Catclaws are great.

True, though used in FF1 for a start.

As for original weapons, Barret, Rinoa, Selphie, Quistis....

[Jack]

I'm back so hold on your horses.

WEAPONS
Right I must say this. Obscure weapons are not cool. If your'e gonna face a HUGE dragon, you do not carry:

FORKS
RACKETS
TINY LITTLE DAGGERS

No! You take a big Gun Or a big Sword! I no it's a fantasy but please! I would not take a Tennis Racket or a Dinner Fork to take out the creature that is 3X the size of me.Still, most summoners have that sort of weapon so I'll give THAT the benifit of the doubt. But no, I can't stand forks. They are stupid, they are dumb and guess what,not clever. But yes, CatClaws are cool,but sadly, they're on Amarant's hands
And, there were big swords (STEINER) and you could sya that Zidane's weapon was just a double ended sword.

AMARANT
If I wanted mysterious, I'll read a Agatha Christie. I do not want a awkward red head who'd moody.

He's interesting, intriguing, and mysterious. He brought something we haven't seen, a character who didn't really like our other heroes. He thought he had something to prove. He thought he would show Zidane that being alone makes you stronger. But, throughout the game, he realizes that what makes you stronger is by being among companions. Learning from one another.

I think Seifer did that as well. In FF8. He thought he was the best, becoming [SPOILER]Edea's knight. Even through loss, he was so big-headed he thought he could still be the best. He thought he had something to prove to Squall. He even got rid of Fujinn & Rajinn because he was so bent on becoming the best he wanted to be alone. But, he finally realises that what makes you the strongest, is with friends. (As illistrated when he has fun with his FRIENDS at the end in Balamb fishing. He learned, he grew, and he became nice.
So Amarant wasn't original, he was just annoying. Who would want him in a group. he just hasn't got the grop ethic. WHY DID HE JOIN?

ENDING
I don't believe that the ending of FFIX was as happy as FFVIIIs. The point is, FFIX told the story as if finishing it, like it showed what happened to them, what good things happened to them. FFVIII didn't. It just showed the intial celebrations. Did everyone get what they wanted? Quistis didn't get what she wanted did she?
Plus, FFVIII's was SO much cooler then FFIX with all that FMV and the trendy Video camcording. Plus, the song was cool IMO. (Im gonna get killed)
Also, FF8's wasn't my favourite. FFX's is. Because itb brought me close to tears, (And still does)

EYES ON ME VS MELODIES OF LIFE
Right. As for the "compsed by the same guy" thing.
I like Rage Aginist The Machine. I don't like all their songs. I like them mostly, but some, I just don't lke. And i perfer some Albums over others. So thats why i like EYES ON ME better. i just perfer it. It's a beautiful song, with stirring vocals, and a nice tune. Howver, MELODIES is fine. Just not as good IMO.
Oh by the way, as for ending themes FFX's rocks.

[Kuja124]

[SB]He didn't NEED to, but so what? It doesn't justify not doing something just because you don't have to. Steiner would have been totally justified (for the setting) in killing Zidane in his sleep. In fact he would have been hailed in his hometown for doing so, and he probably knew that. He let him live, because he has honour.
Zidane DIDN'T work for Baku. He quit after the Theatre Ship crashed. The evidence that he didn't know is that he never mentions it, and it was Dagger who wanted to go to Lindblum. Zidane being in the room (which I didn't think he was) when Cid mentions it doesn't count as Tantalus mentioning it.

Zidane did work for Baku. Until Garnet was take by the 2nd boss in the game. Zidane was the only one who wanted to save him. But Baku would not let him. So Zidane left.

As for kidnapping that went out the window when Garnet wanted to go with Zidane.

[PhoenixAsh]

What's [SB]?

Anyway I made it clear in that comment that I knew Zidane quit Tantalus, and therefore originally worked for Baku.

As for kidnapping just because Dagger wanted to leave doesn't mean it's right. If she hadn't wanted to they still would have done it.

[Kuja124]

Anyway I made it clear in that comment that I knew Zidane quit Tantalus, and therefore originally worked for Baku.

As for kidnapping just because Dagger wanted to leave doesn't mean it's right. If she hadn't wanted to they still would have done it.

Even if she did not Cid wanted to get her away form her mother. So Tantalus was going by Cid's orders. Zidane works for Tantalus until the point at whcih they will nto go save her but he will.

And Garnet's mother was not to worrierd about what happened to her.

[ShadyMilkman]

Well, I thought I'd give this thread another chance, but now I realize that it hasn't changed any. It's still of bunch of egotistical numbnuts comparing one game to another and one like to another's like, both of which are complete bull. Seifer didn't like Squall cause Seifer was an enemy. not a party member. Sure, forks aren't original or cool, but what else would you give a gourmand. Even though I know your response will be that Quina was dumb and shouldn't have been in the game as you continue to bring up and re-use the exact same arguments over and over in a pointless and never-endin routine. So screw this thread, I'm NOT coming back.

[Angel_Reaper]

Originally posted by ShadyMilkman
Basically, one man's trash is another's treasure. What one may see as silly, another sees as genius. Quina. Some see him as childish and pointless. I loved him. Loved how he taught the other characters so much by just being himself. He was fun-loving and light-hearted. He enjoyed all the simple things that most of us overlook. Amarant. You say garbage, I say great. He's interesting, intriguing, and mysterious. He brought something we haven't seen, a character who didn't really like our other heroes. He thought he had something to prove. He thought he would show Zidane that being alone makes you stronger. But, throughout the game, he realizes that what makes you stronger is by being among companions. Learning from one another. Weapons were a bit different for once. No freaky big swords. No guns. Catclaws are great. Butterfly swords, love em. The air rackets, very creative. I was a happy camper with this game. CHEERS!

You have a great veiw of this game, I like that. You dont diss it. Like most people does. Which I hope you dont think I am dissing it. Cause I love the characters like I said. But it has sad parts in it I dont like. Like at the part I am now Lindblum in ruins. Sooo sad. But I DO like the game. And Zidane, Kuja, and I forgot about the weapons until I played it and you mentioned it. Which it is cool as well. (Me and my blond moments)