I wasted my time with FF6

[The Man]

One of the things I like most about the Suikoden series and Chrono Cross is that there is no so-called "insanity factor." It's impossible to level up beyond a certain point in Suikoden because monsters stop giving experience to your players after they pass a certain level (it varies per monster, obviously). In Chrono Cross, there's no actual experience system; you gain levels each time you successfully defeat a boss. Allowing a player to level up insanely takes most of the challenge out of playing an RPG; you don't have to formulate a strategy, you can just plow right through by power-leveling your characters to insanity.

Of course there's no artificially imposed limit when you're exercising, but doing the same exercises over and over, after awhile, isn't going to make you stronger; it's just going to keep you at the same strength. Similarly, fighting the same monsters over and over shouldn't make you a better fighter after you pass a certain point, but nonetheless, in Final Fantasy VI you can nonetheless go to Dino Forest and whack out as many dinosaurs as you want and you'll eventually end up with superhuman strength. (Of course, you could argue that you'd need superhuman strength to defeat a bunch of dinosaurs with just a sword, but I still can't imagine it being as superhuman as the person who controls all magic in the world, yet that's exactly the way it goes in FFVI).

I distinctly remember the Atma Weapon doing well over 4,999 damage per hit with Offering at level 50. It's been awhile since I played, though, so I can't give you exact specifics.

[Clyde Arronway]

continuously doing the same works after a point will still cause strength increse, just very little. That fits with leveling up: levels grow in required exp. exponentially

Also, terra is after all (spoiler) half esper. She is magic incarnate. the rest are as powerful as all the espers the party recieved. Absorbing all the magic doesn't mean much. Remeber also, unless you use the espers to increse stats at level up, your charectors, unless they are using the innately supernatural atma, cannot do very much damage singlehanded.

[The Man]

The strength gained by repeatedly fighting dinosaurs in Final Fantasy VI is more than the strength that would be gained by repeatedly fighting dinosaurs in real life. After a given point, repeatedly doing the same exercises will yield negligible strength gains, even if you spend all your free time doing them. Lifting a 25-pound weight over ten repetitions will only do so much for you, no matter how often you do it. The gains from fighting the same monsters over and over in FFVI are far from negligible, although they are time cosnuming.

Terra is not magic incarnate. She's not even half magic-incarnate. (SPOILER)Espers are given magic by the privilieges of the Statues; without the statues; or some similar equivalent, the Espers die off. And look at how easily Kefka neutralises the powers of all the Espers in Thamasa. He shouldn't even have to break a sweat to deal with her.

[bEoWuLfX]

The strength gained by repeatedly fighting dinosaurs in Final Fantasy VI is more than the strength that would be gained by repeatedly fighting dinosaurs in real life.

Fighting dinosaurs? In real life? Anyways, have you lifted weights before? 25 lbs is not very much... If you do increase your reps you feel the same burn as when you increased the weight. The build up of lactic acid in the muscle is envitable if you lift more or if you lift for longer. As a result the muscles get the same work out, but it just takes longer if you're doing less weight. So it is exactly like training in the dinosaur forest. Couldn't you also increase the weight by killing off all your other characters letting one take all the exp? As for suikoden I can't comment because I can't find it...

[Del Murder]

I agree that the leveling up system is not realistic but if games were realistic they would suck. Getting to a point where you can't get any stronger takes a lot of the fun out of it. Go dinos!

[Clyde Arronway]

What are espers except humans who have been turned to magic. anyhow, the espers in thamasa are peaceful espers that have been sitting around doing nothing violent for 1000 years. they've lost their edge. Also remember that kefka was beaten to a pulp when the sealed gate was opened.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

The Espers in the mountains near Thamasa are the same Espers that escaped from the Sealed Gate.

[Clyde Arronway]

Exactly. Kefka may have defeated them in the end, but he was first evicerated by them. And rememver kefka was imbued with magic from the statues and the espers, but that same power is in the espers and in the charectors. He may be compared to a god once but the story overall states otherwise.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

So, since they all have the same power, could any of the individual Espers or characters besides Kefka have also twisted the fortress city of Vector into an enormous tower, commanded the Light of Judgment, and spontaneously grown a monstrous living monument to himself and then sprouted wings?

[Del Murder]

Maybe they could and just didn't feel like it.

[Clyde Arronway]

If the power of the goddeses can make men into espers, which are quite more drastic changes than just wings, it's most likely that because espers have the same power in their veins, they could if they wished. If Ragnarok can change enemies into consumable objects, it's fairly reasonable.

[aeris2001x2]

in response to the point about it not being realistic the lving up and it would become negliable after a certain point...

it does anyway! thats why after each lv it takes more exp to lv up and u stop at lv99!

of course u realise u r playing very unique individuals as well. the average person would get above lv 2 while bruce lee would,nt be higher then lv 15. i compare my charaacters to dbz which explains why bullets do like 100 or sumthin weak instead of death and u can become demi-gods.

[Clyde Arronway]

You're completely right. This is based origionally off of FFI, which is a fantasy game, which is based out of legend and myth. In these, men and wizards train all their life for combat and make a habit of killing gods and demigods. Thus in response to my longstanding bicker with the man, don't compare this to medieval european warfare, it isn't an attempt to be. Don't compare it to Greek Myth, it isn't supposed to be. Fanatsy stems out of Celtic and Norse Myth, in which man habitually overthrows the supernatual because the line between man and god is very thin indeed. In celtic myth for example, which is really the basis of almost all fantasy and thus the FF series, the man Eremon and his army evicted every supernatural being in ireland from the surface of the earth! The human can well become the superhuman in these stories.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

You're completely right. This is based origionally off of FFI, which is a fantasy game, which is based out of legend and myth.

One more middleman: FFI was based primarily upon Dungeons & Dragons, much more so than upon any actual cultural legends.

[The Man]

So, since they all have the same power, could any of the individual Espers or characters besides Kefka have also twisted the fortress city of Vector into an enormous tower, commanded the Light of Judgment, and spontaneously grown a monstrous living monument to himself and then sprouted wings?

I certainly don't think so, which is why the Luca Blight battle is a lot better than the last Kefka battle. Kefka is able to defeat the Espers at Thamasa without lifting a finger; the only reason he's trounced by them at the Sealed Gate is because he's not prepared for their emergence. It's not like he's not able to get back up and walk out long before the party leaves, anyway; where the heck is he when you're leaving the cave? He's already long-gone. And Thamasa is *before* he obtains the power of the Statues.

Kefka *was* human, and he became superhuman thanks to obtaining the powers of the Statues and a tremendous number of Espers. There's nothing in the story to suggest that any other character becomes superhuman throughout the course of the game, so the final battle should be a challenge no matter what level the player is at. Perhaps having the challenge of the final battle change alongside the player's level would have been an appropriate adjustment; regardless, Kefka needs more HP. A lot more. Like, 200,000 more.